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What, Exactly, are the Great Achievements of the Islamic World?
moi

Posted on 01/11/2002 8:52:14 AM PST by ml/nj

Today in the WSJ, Karen Elliot House reviews a new book from Bernard Lewis entitled What Went Wrong. She begins this way:

How has it come to pass that a civilization that for centuries led the world in science, medicine, and the arts ...
Does anyone know what contribution the Islamic world made to science besides giving us our number system (admittedly a biggie) and naming a bunch of stars (less big)? Algebra may have Arabic roots linguistically, but I cannot think of a single concept or theorem that we credit to the Arabs. The Greeks are all over geometry. The Arabs supposedly preserved this and passed it along, but did they contribute? I don't know. I'm asking.

Ditto for medicine. What did they do? (Stop the bleeding when they chopped off someones hand?)

And if House just said "Art," maybe, but Arts? The Islamic architecture should certainly be considered "leading," but is there any philosophy or literature that anyone pays attention to along the lines of Maimonades or Aquinas?

ML/NJ


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: clashofcivilizatio; muslimworld; religionofpeace; religionofpieces; suicidebombers
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To: GEC
Without Islam, we would not even know half of the Greeks we know today. After the Romans fell, no one in Europe gave a damn about the Greeks, but Islam kept the knowledge alive.

you're WRONG. The Byzantines kept that knowledge alive
201 posted on 08/29/2004 6:25:25 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: Robert_Paulson2

"It is our duty to show them now, how to melt it."

Good one!


202 posted on 12/06/2004 11:05:44 AM PST by Spirited
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To: Cronos

islam has contributed NOTHING but murder, terror, death, slavery, rape, pillage, destruction and perversion for centuries. it is a destroyer of cultures more peaceful than itself. Weighed, measured and now condemned planet wide.

the MYTH of an islamic golden age... would be better nomenclatured with the term 'anti-cultural golden shower', somwhat like they have in San Fran Gay joints, only the medium of perversion is the innocent blood of infidels and their children... aka Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist and other muslims who were not 'muslim enough.'

Islam actually has NO redeeming qualities or history... and is currently headed for the historical shredder and conversion to smoking ash... along with it's foster children, nazism, fascism and communism.
the fact that colleges and universities are preaching islamic bullcrap will not alter the inevitable train of events that has been set to motion.

bye bye islam...
the joy of seeing the dhimmis and enslaved masses revolt and burn Islam's demonic ideology in the fires of advancing civilization, warms the cockles of our hearts. It is long overdue. Humanity needs to move on, past the stupidity of blood/murder cults.

we learned all we need know of islam, on 9/11.
Our lesson is over.
and tis time for smackdown... aka... the NEW Crusades, part deux.

No amount of calls for multiculturalistic 'tolerance' is going to stop what is on the way. They started it, but we will finish it.


With any luck, our great great grandchildren will not even know what a muslim was, hopefully. Just like MOST of them have no real concept of what a jew killing Nazi is today.


203 posted on 12/06/2004 3:35:04 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2 (real republicans WIN.)
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To: Robert_Paulson2
No amount of calls for multiculturalistic 'tolerance' is going to stop what is on the way. They started it, but we will finish it.

err.. I agree with you about no tolerance forNaziism orIslam, but anti-multiculturalism? Are you against the Hindus. Buddhists, Eastern Orthodox, etc. cultures too? I don't think so
204 posted on 12/06/2004 10:16:00 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: Tallguy
It could be that the Islamic world today is living in the equivalent of the "Dark Ages" that the Christian World" lived through from the Fall of Rome to (roughly) 1200 AD.

There's a lot to be said for that. This is the year 1425 in the Muslim calendar. What was Christianity like in the year 1425? It wasn't pretty.

205 posted on 12/06/2004 10:39:31 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: ml/nj
If Mohammed died in Medina how is it that the Al Aqsa Mosque, built to cover the spot where his soul ascended into heaven, is in Jerusalem?

Is it that the Al Aqsa Mosque is a sham built only to take away the holiest site of the Jews, Solomon's Temple using a phoney story?

You don't have to answer that.

206 posted on 12/06/2004 10:50:28 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: danmar
but try MCMLXXXXIX for 1999.

...try, MCMXCIX for 1999...:)

Or MIM.

207 posted on 12/06/2004 10:56:31 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Cronos
Are you against the Hindus.[?]

I'm against the Hindu caste system. It is based on reincarnation and the cycle of rebirth. It says that your status in life is based on what you did in your previous life. If you see a beggar on the street who is filthy, hungry, and covered in disease it is only because he was an evil man in his previous life and is therefore not deserving of sympathy. You should probably go kick him instead of offering him assistance for he deserves it. Likewise for a rich man living in luxury. He has that status only because he was a man of great deeds and good will in his previous life. So you should bow to him and do as he says to reward his previous life.

That is an evil and abhorrent mindset. I can't accept it. I prefer Christian charity to the downtrodden and its dislike of ill-gotten wealth. You can be forgiven and take you place in heaven. Everyone is welcome.

208 posted on 12/06/2004 11:04:31 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Cronos

the hindus and buddhista are not the ones I have heard for the last three decades hollering about 'tolerance' in the usa.. or a need for diversity.

the groups who holler about it all the time, do so because THEIR beliefs are the ones that are the most intrusive, violent and affecting on others. they run contrary to the interests of a secular society.

it is interesting that the cultures and religions that are tolerant, sekdom demand it with a rusty blade to some foreign aid worker's throat.... but the ones that are INTOLERANT and violent, SCREAM bloody murder whenever you arrest them BEFORE they blow up a congress building full of hindus...

they want us to tolerate their murder of others, as their highest sacrement next to suicide, in direct disproportion to the way they tolerate our primary sacraments in other religions, like communion, baptism or meditation.

to muzzies multiculturalism apparently means submit to US or die.
to me the original concept of multiculturalism was live and let live. sounds like your definition too... guess what, the common meaning of that compound word has changed significantly.

what is being sold today AS multicultural tolerance and appreciation, is NOT what YOU or I would mean. THEY have redefined that term in almost every university save a few religious ones... to mean crush peaceful christianity here at home, while promoting EVERYTHING but judeo-chrstian values both here and abroad.

The multicultural currcula at most universities is fit for warming the house, via the fireplace, not much else.


209 posted on 12/06/2004 11:07:09 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2 (real republicans WIN.)
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To: FreedomCalls; Robert_Paulson2
That is an evil and abhorrent mindset. I can't accept it. I prefer Christian charity to the downtrodden and its dislike of ill-gotten wealth. You can be forgiven and take you place in heaven. Everyone is welcome.

I agree with you -- my point was -- we can tell them we don't accept it and that it won't be allowed in our lands -- and they would accept it and they DO accept that. Compare them to the Mooselimbs....

A live and let live philosophy works with the Hindus, Buddhists etc. but NOT with mooselimbs.

and you didn't answer my point about multi-culturism --> I'd consider Eastern Orthodox nations to be of a different culture -- not better or worse, just different. Ditto for the Japanese.

smatterofact, I'd not use the monolithic term 'western Kultur', more like Italian, English, Norwegian etc.
210 posted on 12/07/2004 2:55:58 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: Robert_Paulson2
to me the original concept of multiculturalism was live and let live. sounds like your definition too... guess what, the common meaning of that compound word has changed significantly.

We agree then --> muzzies should be kicked OUT.
211 posted on 12/07/2004 2:56:54 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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Comment #212 Removed by Moderator

Comment #213 Removed by Moderator

Comment #214 Removed by Moderator

To: ml/nj

It may not be a reason to bomb them to kingdom come, but it very much is a reason why emigration policies should be guided by the fact that they have so little to contribute, and the risks attendent in their immigration outweight the potential benefits.

With all that money, why not ONE major institution of research or higher learning?

With all that time, why not ONE US based program that looks critically at the Quran like hundreds of institutions around the world have examined the Bible?

The only country in the world named after a family is Saudi Arabia. It’s named after a family, the house of Saud.

A MAJOR ingredient of national agression is bad nationalism, and bad nationalism requires a ton of ignorance, and Islam cultivates ignorance. It isn’t just that they avoid it like you avoid lima beans.

They discourage it. It’s part of the plan. Ignorance is the only real necessary ingredient of autocracy. Without it, you generally can’t pull it off.

It’s certainly a major component of National Liberalism here in the United States.

It’s time to give all of this gauzy leftism a name, and the name is National Liberalism. It has its religious component (Atheism/Gaiaism hybrid), and the other well known economic, military, and historical components. At its base, however, is the purposeful obfuscation of science and logic.

All autocracies depend on it.


215 posted on 11/06/2007 8:54:01 AM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: Non-Sequitur; LucyT; SunkenCiv

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/speeches/fiorina/minnesota01.html

Excerpt:

There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world.

It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins.

One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization’s commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.

And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration.

Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.

When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others.

While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I’m talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.

Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Arab mathematicians. Sufi poet-philosophers like Rumi challenged our notions of self and truth. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership.

And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population–that included Christianity, Islamic, and Jewish traditions.

This kind of enlightened leadership — leadership that nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage — led to 800 years of invention and prosperity.

In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness. More than ever, we must focus on the importance of leadership– bold acts of leadership and decidedly personal acts of leadership.

With that, I’d like to open up the conversation and see what we, collectively, believe about the role of leadership.

http://www.ninevehsoft.com/fiorina.htm

What Arab Civilization?
This letter was sent to Carly Fiorina, CEO of Hewlett Packard Corporation, in response to a speech given by her on September 26, 2001.


November 7, 2001

Carly Fiorina
Hewlett-Packard
3000 Hanover Street
Palo Alto, CA 94304-1185

Dear Madame Fiorina:

It is with great interest that I read your speech delivered on September 26, 2001, titled “Technology, Business and Our way of Life: What’s Next” [sic]. I was particularly interested in the story you told at the end of your speech, about the Arab/Muslim civilization. As an Assyrian, a non-Arab, Christian native of the Middle East, whose ancestors reach back to 5000 B.C., I wish to clarify some points you made in this little story, and to alert you to the dangers of unwittingly being drawn into the Arabist/Islamist ideology, which seeks to assimilate all cultures and religions into the Arab/Islamic fold.

I know you are a very busy woman, but please find ten minutes to read what follows, as it is a perspective that you will not likely get from anywhere else. I will answer some of the specific points you made in your speech, then conclude with a brief perspective on this Arabist/Islamist ideology.

Arabs and Muslims appeared on the world scene in 630 A.D., when the armies of Muhammad began their conquest of the Middle East. We should be very clear that this was a military conquest, not a missionary enterprise, and through the use of force, authorized by a declaration of a Jihad against infidels, Arabs/Muslims were able to forcibly convert and assimilate non-Arabs and non-Mulsims into their fold. Very few indigenous communities of the Middle East survived this — primarily Assyrians, Jews, Armenians and Coptics (of Egypt).

Having conquered the Middle East, Arabs placed these communities under a Dhimmi (see the book Dhimmi, by Bat Ye’Or) system of governance, where the communities were allowed to rule themselves as religious minorities (Christians, Jews and Zoroastrian). These communities had to pay a tax (called a Jizzya in Arabic) that was, in effect, a penalty for being non-Muslim, and that was typically 80% in times of tolerance and up to 150% in times of oppression. This tax forced many of these communities to convert to Islam, as it was designed to do.

You state, “its architects designed buildings that defied gravity.” I am not sure what you are referring to, but if you are referring to domes and arches, the fundamental architectural breakthrough of using a parabolic shape instead of a spherical shape for these structures was made by the Assyrians more than 1300 years earlier, as evidenced by their archaeological record.

You state, “its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption.” The fundamental basis of modern mathematics had been laid down not hundreds but thousands of years before by Assyrians and Babylonians, who already knew of the concept of zero, of the Pythagorean Theorem, and of many, many other developments expropriated by Arabs/Muslims (see History of Babylonian Mathematics, Neugebauer).

You state, “its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease.” The overwhelming majority of these doctors (99%) were Assyrians. In the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries Assyrians began a systematic translation of the Greek body of knowledge into Assyrian. At first they concentrated on the religious works but then quickly moved to science, philosophy and medicine. Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Galen, and many others were translated into Assyrian, and from Assyrian into Arabic. It is these Arabic translations which the Moors brought with them into Spain, and which the Spaniards translated into Latin and spread throughout Europe, thus igniting the European Renaissance.

By the sixth century A.D., Assyrians had begun exporting back to Byzantia their own works on science, philosophy and medicine. In the field of medicine, the Bakhteesho Assyrian family produced nine generations of physicians, and founded the great medical school at Gundeshapur (Iran). Also in the area of medicine, (the Assyrian) Hunayn ibn-Ishaq’s textbook on ophthalmology, written in 950 A.D., remained the authoritative source on the subject until 1800 A.D.

In the area of philosophy, the Assyrian philosopher Job of Edessa developed a physical theory of the universe, in the Assyrian language, that rivaled Aristotle’s theory, and that sought to replace matter with forces (a theory that anticipated some ideas in quantum mechanics, such as the spontaneous creation and destruction of matter that occurs in the quantum vacuum).

One of the greatest Assyrian achievements of the fourth century was the founding of the first university in the world, the School of Nisibis, which had three departments, theology, philosophy and medicine, and which became a magnet and center of intellectual development in the Middle East. The statutes of the School of Nisibis, which have been preserved, later became the model upon which the first Italian university was based (see The Statutes of the School of Nisibis, by Arthur Voobus).

When Arabs and Islam swept through the Middle East in 630 A.D., they encountered 600 years of Assyrian Christian civilization, with a rich heritage, a highly developed culture, and advanced learning institutions. It is this civilization that became the foundation of the Arab civilization.

You state, “Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration.” This is a bit melodramatic. In fact, the astronomers you refer to were not Arabs but Chaldeans and Babylonians (of present day south-Iraq), who for millennia were known as astronomers and astrologers, and who were forcibly Arabized and Islamized — so rapidly that by 750 A.D. they had disappeared completely.

You state, “its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.” There is very little literature in the Arabic language that comes from this period you are referring to (the Koran is the only significant piece of literature), whereas the literary output of the Assyrians and Jews was vast. The third largest corpus of Christian writing, after Latin and Greek, is by the Assyrians in the Assyrian language (also called Syriac; see here.)

You state, “when other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others.” This is a very important issue you raise, and it goes to the heart of the matter of what Arab/Islamic civilization represents. I reviewed a book titled How Greek Science Passed to the Arabs, in which the author lists the significant translators and interpreters of Greek science. Of the 22 scholars listed, 20 were Assyrians, 1 was Persian and 1 an Arab. I state at the end of my review: “The salient conclusion which can be drawn from O’Leary’s book is that Assyrians played a significant role in the shaping of the Islamic world via the Greek corpus of knowledge. If this is so, one must then ask the question, what happened to the Christian communities which made them lose this great intellectual enterprise which they had established. One can ask this same question of the Arabs. Sadly, O’Leary’s book does not answer this question, and we must look elsewhere for the answer.” I did not answer this question I posed in the review because it was not the place to answer it, but the answer is very clear, the Christian Assyrian community was drained of its population through forced conversion to Islam (by the Jizzya), and once the community had dwindled below a critical threshold, it ceased producing the scholars that were the intellectual driving force of the Islamic civilization, and that is when the so called “Golden Age of Islam” came to an end (about 850 A.D.).

Islam the religion itself was significantly molded by Assyrians and Jews (see Nestorian Influence on Islam and Hagarism: the Making of the Islamic World).

Arab/Islamic civilization is not a progressive force, it is a regressive force; it does not give impetus, it retards. The great civilization you describe was not an Arab/Muslim accomplishment, it was an Assyrian accomplishment that Arabs expropriated and subsequently lost when they drained, through the forced conversion of Assyrians to Islam, the source of the intellectual vitality that propelled it. What other Arab/Muslim civilization has risen since? What other Arab/Muslim successes can we cite?

You state, “and perhaps we can learn a lesson from his [Suleiman] example: It was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population that included Christianity, Islamic, and Jewish traditions.” In fact, the Ottomans were extremely oppressive to non-Muslims. For example, young Christian boys were forcefully taken from their families, usually at the age of 8-10, and inducted into the Janissaries, (yeniceri in Turkish) where they were Islamized and made to fight for the Ottoman state. What literary, artistic or scientific achievements of the Ottomans can we point to? We can, on the other hand, point to the genocide of 750,000 Assyrians, 1.5 million Armenians and 400,000 Greeks in World War One by the Kemalist “Young Turk” government. This is the true face of Islam.

Arabs/Muslims are engaged in an explicit campaign of destruction and expropriation of cultures and communities, identities and ideas. Wherever Arab/Muslim civilization encounters a non-Arab/Muslim one, it attempts to destroy it (as the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan were destroyed, as Persepolis was destroyed by the Ayotollah Khomeini). This is a pattern that has been recurring since the advent of Islam, 1400 years ago, and is amply substantiated by the historical record. If the “foreign” culture cannot be destroyed, then it is expropriated, and revisionist historians claim that it is and was Arab, as is the case of most of the Arab “accomplishments” you cited in your speech. For example, Arab history texts in the Middle East teach that Assyrians were Arabs, a fact that no reputable scholar would assert, and that no living Assyrian would accept. Assyrians first settled Nineveh, one of the major Assyrian cities, in 5000 B.C., which is 5630 years before Arabs came into that area. Even the word ‘Arab’ is an Assyrian word, meaning “Westerner” (the first written reference to Arabs was by the Assyrian King Sennacherib, 800 B.C., in which he tells of conquering the “ma’rabayeh” — Westerners. See The Might That Was Assyria, by H. W. F. Saggs).

Even in America this Arabization policy continues. On October 27th a coalition of seven Assyrian and Maronite organizations sent an official letter to the Arab American Institute asking it to stop identifying Assyrians and Maronites as Arabs, which it had been deliberately doing.

There are minorities and nations struggling for survival in the Arab/Muslim ocean of the Middle East and Africa (Assyrians, Armenians, Coptics, Jews, southern Sudanese, Ethiopians, Nigerians...), and we must be very sensitive not to unwittingly and inadvertently support Islamic fascism and Arab Imperialism, with their attempts to wipe out all other cultures, religions and civilizations. It is incumbent upon each one of us to do our homework and research when making statements and speeches about these sensitive matters.

I hope you found this information enlightening.

Thank you for your consideration.

Peter BetBasoo

Web resources:

Brief History of Assyrians
Assyrian International News Agency
Assyrian American National Federation
Assyrian Academic Society
Zinda Magazine
Beth Suryoyo
Nineveh Online
World Maronite Union
Maronite Research Council
World Lebanese Organization
Coptic Web


216 posted on 09/10/2009 6:35:58 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: Fred Nerks; Non-Sequitur
Low I.Q. savages; barbarians, scum of the earth.

Arabs/Muslims are engaged in an explicit campaign of destruction and expropriation of cultures and communities, identities and ideas.

Wherever Arab/Muslim civilization encounters a non-Arab/Muslim one, it attempts to destroy it (as the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan were destroyed..."

'Buddha statues destroyed completely'

March 13, 2001

ISLAMABAD: The destruction of the two massive Buddha statues in Bamiyan was completed on Thursday and Friday with dynamite, an official source in Islamabad confirmed on Monday.

"The plan of demolition by dynamite, established in advance, was implemented on the 8th and 9th (of March)," said the source, who asked not to be named. "There is nothing except a few pieces of the Buddhas, left clinging to the cliff," he said.

"This crime against culture was committed while all the world's voices were raised to prevent it. The Taliban paid no attention to the unprecedented international protests, nor of the conflicting views expressed by the highest religious authorities of Islam," Matsuura said.

,p>

Destroyed: The tallest Buddha figure in the world,
55m;180 ft; created in the 3rd century A.D.

http://www.photogrammetry.ethz.ch/research/bamiyan/buddha/statue.html

217 posted on 09/10/2009 7:29:48 PM PDT by LucyT
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To: Fred Nerks; null and void; stockpirate; george76; PhilDragoo; Candor7; BP2; MeekOneGOP; ...

Ping to #217.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/606323/posts?page=217#217


218 posted on 09/10/2009 7:31:36 PM PDT by LucyT
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Oops, ignore the ,p>.


219 posted on 09/10/2009 7:33:09 PM PDT by LucyT
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To: All
Muslim's 'achievments': Image and video hosting by TinyPic Image and video hosting by TinyPic Image and video hosting by TinyPic "On this occasion, we celebrate the holy month of Ramadan and we also celebrate how much Muslims have enriched America and its culture in ways both large and small." Barack Hussein Obama.
220 posted on 09/10/2009 7:52:36 PM PDT by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
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