The White Van - Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?

ABCNEWS.com ^

[sneakypete]

Have you notice what an anomaly this story is on Free Republic? I've been here 4 years and probably read a few thousand controversies. There is a usual give and take. Not so with this one. When it first was posted in the fall, a group of people descended on the thread charging those who put the slightest credence in the account with being antisemites and Nazis.

If you are never again right about anything else in your life,you are right about this. It's not just this thread,either. The same thing happens on any thread about Pollard,the USS Liberty,Israeli-Firsters,etc,etc,etc. The "Jewish Mafia" show up to shout down anybody who doesn't follow the party line,and call them anti-Semites,neo-Nazi's,etc,etc,etc. Jesse Jackson and "The Rev" Sharpton have NOTHING on these people when it comes to rhetoric or victimhood.

[sneakypete]

If anyone suffers from disloyalty, it is the would-be America Firsters who have been sucking up to our Arab enemies.

Let me make sure I correctly understand what you are saying,ok? Are you saying that American Jews who put America first are "disloyal"?

[Phil V.]

. . . the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives.

Everybody KNOWS that the FBI is incompetent . . . no news here.

The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background . . .

Perfectly natural. I'm a deer hunter. When a big buck is killed pictures are taken. No news here.

[Phil V.]

It is absolutely disgusting that the FR "administrative monitors" permit trolls like you to drive the best elements of the old FR away . . .

Old Freepers never die. They just take a break, get some fresh air then dive back in for another round or two until the feted stench trail of mrustow et al forces another detox rest. Take a break. Detox. Get some fresh air.

[Phil V.]

When it first was posted in the fall, a group of people descended on the thread charging those . . .

I've not read the entire thread yet. Has Veronica flown in yet?

[Phil V.]

But these Israelis jerked our FBI around.

But Larry, that's only because the FBI was abusing them (per letter home to mommy re no kosher food)

No kosher food no cooperation . . . simple, understandable

You ARE a dumbshit, Larry!

[gitmo]

It's interesting what hasn't been seen about this.

(1) The video the Israelis took should reveal a lot.

(2) An examination of their PC should tell whether they told the truth about learning the WTC attack had occured while surfing the internet. That would tell whether they were home not expecting the attack.

I also can understand Israel's attitude toward the States. Our support for Israel waxes and wanes with each change in administration. It's got to be tough trying to figure out exactly where the US stands on things. Especially when you're involved in a life-or-death stuggle and your ally continually changes his stance.

Even with Bush in the White House, I can't figure out what the heck our Middle East policy is.

[mrustow]

Me: If anyone suffers from disloyalty, it is the would-be America Firsters who have been sucking up to our Arab enemies.

Sneakypete: Let me make sure I correctly understand what you are saying,ok? Are you saying that American Jews who put America first are "disloyal"?

Pete, I'm posting this not for your benefit, but for the sake of those who, being either new to FR or only occasional visitors, are unfamiliar with your twisted, vicious mind.

Folks, now go back to the beginning of this post. Read my statenment and then sneakypete's. No, there is nothing wrong with your computer screen. No, there was no misunderstanding. sneakypete's m.o. is to take the words of Jews, and project his anti-Semitism onto them. Apparently, he is utterly incapable of rational argument. He also believes, perhaps correctly, that if he can confuse people, he can manipulate them. But those people would have to be mighty stupid.

[ASA Vet]

Sleazy Criminal Defense Lawyer

Redundancy Alert!

[LarryLied]

an orchestrated effort of groups at this site to swarm into postings when Israel is challenged. They are not here to debunk the postings with facts, but with smears and innuendos.

They believe they make points which change minds. Well they do I guess, but minds are not changed toward their position.

[LarryLied]

When ten outlets publish the same lie it does not make the lie true.

What did ABC lie about in this story?

[ASA Vet]

They believe they make points which change minds.

Sorry, but I've got to disagree,
I've never seen anyone change thier mind on FR.

[mrustow]

I have perused through your (to you Larry Lied) various posts on this Israeli topic with particular scrutiny, and checked up on your sources, and I have to say it seems there is something really bizarre and peculiar about this whole affair! After all it seems strange that several Israelis seemed to know about the whole 9-11 event, and with enough detail to be at the right place at the right time! However the reason for my post was not to theorize or speculate on what was going on since I believe conjecture without all the pertinent information is not only silly but dangerous,

The hell you don't -- the whole purpose of your post was to speculate and conjecture!

and I have already seen people start to assume things that are just silly (like the Freeper who came to the conclusion that they were ‘Palestinians with Israeli passports’ when all the substantiation indicted towards Israeli Mossad agents).

There was no substantiation that they were Mossad agents. The FBI "concluded" that two of them were "Israeli intelligence agents," but had no substantiation, just as the FBI concluded, absent any substantiation, that the anthrax killer was a "home-grown terrorist."

The reason for my post is just to assure you that there are Freepers out there (like myself) who are willing to look at the facts and come to independent and verifiable conclusions from those data specifics.

No, you're trying to disguise your vicious innuendoes as reasoned considerations, but it was a nice try.

Sadly there are many Freepers who see any thread that tries to allege any wrong doing by the state of Israel as a wickedly evil, despicable, reprehensible and untrue assertion posted by a person who is not only disreputable but also probably affiliated with some anti-Semitic pro-Arab Neo-Nazi secret cabal that is out to discredit Israel! To them Israel can do no wrong…..and anyone who says otherwise is not only sadly mistaken but deserving of active flaming and cursing (eg nazi, anti-Semite, conspiracist ad infinitum).

Whatever. This standard "Anyone who defends Israel is a traitor" shtick is beneath the propaganda standard you had just set.

Which is strange since I consider myself pro-Israel. However I refuse to obscure any wrongdoings by the state of Israel just because I support them! Associating yourself with another nation does not mean one should become blind to any wrongdoings by that nation.

If you're pro-Israel, so is Yasser Arafat!

actually that reminds me of a recent thread on the USS Liberty that was attacked several decades ago by Israeli jets…where scores of American sailors died and many more injured. The funny thing about that thread was that there were several posts that were quite weird since they seemed to put Israel above America in terms of importance (which is alright if you are Israeli but not if you are an American citizen). And the strangest thing I read was this Freeper flame another person for even posting the thread…..and another Freeper who said words I will never forget: that he was ‘proud of Israel for attacking the USS Liberty because it showed the guts of Israel to go as far as attack an American ship!’

You're lying. I dare you to come up with the thread and post number. I know, I know, how could you possibly be expected to go that far back ... especially to a post that DOESN'T EXIST.

I have to hand it to you -- you are much more sophisticated than the average anti-Semite. The cool, calm tone, the claim that you are interested in the facts, the subtle bending of reports. Where you screwed up was in conjuring up a phantom post re the U.S.S. Liberty. You got overambitious, and as a result, you got caught. Thus, I am giving you a "B" for anti-Semitic propaganda.

[LarryLied]

They leave or stop posting on these threads. However, as Phil V. ponts out above, many can't resist dropping back in again.

[luvzhottea]

Miller reported that the FBI said the photos taken by the Israelis showed them on top of van SMILING.

It was a pretty good spin job the segment trying to obfuscate the real espionage situation by focusing on this one aspect. Yet the attempted penetration of DEA and other Federal agencies at locations the public would never know about by "art students" never got any play by Disney owned and operated ABC.

[spetznaz]

Ok, I am about to do something I consider anathema….and that is replying to someone who obviously has such intellectual acumen that he thinks any person posting anything that is not positive about Israel is automatically an anti-Semite pro-Arab skulker! And that is you Mrustow.Which is strange because if I had a child and she did something wrong like lets say skip a chore, I could be unhappy with her actions yet still love her more than the world! And if I can detest an action by someone I love yet adore them, I refuse to see why I cannot support Israel yet be able to say ‘they did something wrong!’

Darn it, even when the US does something wrong (eg during the Clinton years) I could say they made a mistake/that was wrong/that was malevolent…..but I am not allowed to do that against Israel? That to me does not make sense, especially when I meet people like you who are so quick to accuse me of being an anti-semite when you really have no idea of my social-political affiliations, my gender, my race, my locale….nothing! yet because I happened to say that Israel based on what they have been reporting on the media(ranging form the right to the left) may have commited a boo-boo you suddenly decide that I am some neo-Nazi Arab sympathizer!

They actually have a name for people like you who automatically revert to baseless vitriol and personal attacks whenever someone says something you do not agree with. And the funny thing is that Free Republic is a forum for the exchange of ideas and opinions, so obviously they will always be notions and nuances that will be divergent from yours….however you seem not to be able to handle that potentiality, and thus can only lapse and regress to making personal attacks on the Freeper (instead of attacking the ideas and opinions you attack the person….which is a bastion and antecedent of a person with either low logical progression, atrophied argumentative capabilities, or generally depleted intellectual acumen…meaning the only way you can get your point across is to use vitriol and attack the ‘offending’ Freeper instead of just his/her ideas).

Anyway I will move on and debunk your rather feeble assertions (feeble since they were based on your assumptions). First things first:

SPETZNAZ: actually that reminds me of a recent thread on the USS Liberty that was attacked several decades ago by Israeli jets…where scores of American sailors died and many more injured. The funny thing about that thread was that there were several posts that were quite weird since they seemed to put Israel above America in terms of importance (which is alright if you are Israeli but not if you are an American citizen). And the strangest thing I read was this Freeper flame another person for even posting the thread…..and another Freeper who said words I will never forget: that he was ‘proud of Israel for attacking the USS Liberty because it showed the guts of Israel to go as far as attack an American ship!

MRUSTOW: You're lying. I dare you to come up with the thread and post number. I know, I know, how could you possibly be expected to go that far back ... especially to a post that DOESN'T EXIST

Ok, here you say that I am lying about that thread on the USS Liberty, and thus you are trying to attack me by saying I have even resorted to lies! Well, do this kind (lol) sir….copy this link and paste it in your URL, and it will take you to the thread I was speaking of (that you insist is a figment of my fertile imagination). The link is http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/696972/posts

in it you will see the people iw as talking about who are quick to jump to the ‘you are a bloody anti-Semite’ bandwagon. Some like Zionist Conspirator went into a whole thing of postivism Hellenism, juadaeo-bolshevism, avodat haqodesh, ben noachism and calls for red heifers…and at the same time calling everyone a neo-Nazi and Masonic warlocks. As for the guy who was saying he ‘respected’ the Israelis for attacking the American ship was Vbtang4 in post number 31 I believe.

The thing is Mrustow….i am not your average Freeper who gets scared when some obtuse inane person starts sending me flame messages full of asinine assertions! I looked at your vitriolic post and I could only see the mental refuse for someone who obviously lacks the facility for separating someone saying an action was wrong and someone hating a nation. Back to my previous analogy…..i can love my child more than anything in the world, yet if he or she steals my checkbook or skips a chore I can still tell the child that I do not appreciate that act…but that does NOT mean I hate my child, or that suddenly I am ‘anti-child’ or a pedophile or some evil autocrat bent on destroying the innocence of childhood! It just means that although I love my child I do not love the act of skipping a chore! Same thing with Israel…even if I support it I can still say be miffed off at certain actions they do. Yet according to you any such act is automatically anti-Semitic ire! Ai yi yi….to me you are one of two things:

1) A very passionate person when it comes to Israel who has seen so many people say vicious things about that nation that you automatically react when you read something that sounds like an anti-Israel attack, and hence you react with an unabated rage toward anyone who posts anything about Israel that you do not like.

or

2) A very imperceptive obtuse and puerile person who has a depleted or atrophied sense of mental sharpness and thus is only able to react to an intellectual tête-à-tête by attacking people with baseless accusations and endless name-calling. Unable to attack the ideas that offend you you resort to attacking the Freeper that posted the ideas….something like a child in kindergarten getting miffed with another student and only being able to retaliate by throwing a toy at the window or at the lil’ girl sitting next to him! Due to his lack of development he can only react through instinct…..just in the same way a small creature can only react by fleeing or fighting! Simple reactory instinct!

I hope you fit in the first group, and that the only reason you automatically reacted with vitriol against me instead of challenging my ideas was because you thought I was one of those who attack Israel because they are anti-Semite. However it has been my dis-pleasure to meet many Freepers who belong to the second category (you should go to the link I posted and read the posts by Zionist Conspirator and read the crazy stuff he was saying….actually a funny thing happened there in that Freepers who at first were opposing each other JOINED TOGETHER to attack Zionist Conspirator and his asinine views. That was hilarious, so hilarious that people even forgot what the thread was about and near the middle of the thread turned their attention on Zionist Conspirator).

In conclusion I am not anti-Semite (I think it is stupid and I have no time to indulge in rampant stupidity), I am not anti-Israel (it is funny that you assumed I was without even knowing me and my connection to Israel), I am not neo-Nazi (actually that is even funnier to me than saying I am anti-Israel…next you will be calling Black Freepers as members of the Aryan Nation or the KKK), etc etc etc ad infinitum (or maybe in your case…if you belong to the second category…ad nauseaum).

Here is another thing you said:

MRUSTOW: There was no substantiation that they were Mossad agents. The FBI "concluded" that two of them were "Israeli intelligence agents," but had no substantiation, just as the FBI concluded, absent any substantiation, that the anthrax killer was a "home-grown terrorist."

Now this is an indication of feble logical progressive abilities! You say that the FBI concluded that they were, in your own words, 'Israeli intelligence agents.' Now, i am acquanted to several Israeli groups and i am well acquanted with their intelligence structure...and i can tell you this...the Mossad is the premier Israeli 'intelligence agency.' The onyl similar setups are in the military, and they are focused on getting information for the Israeli Sayeret Special Forces. However the Mossad is in charge of the other facets and aspects pertinent to Israel. And by the way where did this whole 'anthrax' thing crop out from? Huh?

And here is another 'gem' of your 'intelligence':

SPETZNAZ:Which is strange since I consider myself pro-Israel. However I refuse to obscure any wrongdoings by the state of Israel just because I support them! Associating yourself with another nation does not mean one should become blind to any wrongdoings by that nation.

MRUSTOW: If you're pro-Israel, so is Yasser Arafat!

Nice and succinct...and full of childish assumptive rhetoric! I could counter that but sadly it is beneath me!

[wheezer]

When this story was first posted on Free Republic, the immediate reaction by the Israel First crowd was to claim they were Arab Israelis.

I remember that thread, and that is a fair characterization of it. One freeper, "harmonica" I think, was especially confident and hard selling the "they were Arab-Israelis...not nice jewish boys" spin.

I think that video would tell the whole story...were they filming and did they capture the first plane hitting the WTC?...does that possibility explain a three month detention prior and deportation?

[Commie Basher]

Nothing is better then drinking a cup of coffee at 4:20am while watching everyone call each other a racist/bigot then complain when phony civil rights leaders do the same exact thing.

I too have noticed that, these past couple of years, many "conservatives" have taken on the characteristics of the PC Left.

PC Conservatives have arisen as mirror images of the PC Left.

"If one stares too long into the dragon, one is in danger of becoming the dragon." -- Nietzsche

[eclectic]

As for hating Jews, that would mean I would have to hate the entire staff of Antiwar.com and a good part of the Board of Directors.

Sad, sad, sad. Kapos, traitors, disgusting human beings those Jews are if this is true, but somehow I doubt it. After all "antiwar.com" specializes in falsehoods and fabrications, so why should I believe YOU?

[Phil V.]

Yo, Larry! . . . here is a tidbit for the file . . . (Is Amdocs in the process of metamorphosis/death/reincarnation?)

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Amdocs to fire some 900 employees

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THE JERUSALEM POST INTERNET STAFF

Jun. 21, 2002

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Israeli high-tech firm Amdocs announced it would fire some 10 percent of its employees following the earlier announcement that it wasn't going to make the profit estimates for the for the first half of 2002, Israel Radio reported.

Amdocs employs workers in Israel and the United States, and it was unclear how many of the planned 900 employees to be laid off would be Israeli, the radio reported.

Following the announcement, Amdoc's shares dropped more than 30 percent in post-trading activity on the New York Stock Exchange, the radio reported.

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