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Vanity: The Pledge of Allegiance is Unconstitutional - If That Doesn't Convince You What Will?
June 26, 2002 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 06/26/2002 11:48:43 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

This is your wake-up call

My friends, I've been taking a lot of flak lately because of my stand on President Bush and the Republicans. Well, my thinking is that the coming elections are so critical that the very continuation of America as we know it may be at stake.

All of our institutions are controlled by liberals. Both houses of Congress are awash in liberals and socialists and moderates and very few conservatives. The Courts are infested with liberal activist judges. Our media and entertainment industries are overrun by liberals. Our universities are overrun by liberals. Our public education systems are overrun by liberals. The liberals control public opinion through their controlled nightly news programs and their daily liberal newspapers. My God, the whole damn country is run by hordes of mushy headed liberals and socialists in biblical proportions! And now they even have the audacity to openly attack patriotism and even God Almighty Himself!

A United States Federal Appeals Court in California has declared the

Pledge of Allegiance to be unconstitutional! And this simply because it contains the phrase, "Under God." I'm speechless! I just sit here and shake my head. Don't even know what to say.

Wake up America! We've been saying that for years. The far right-wingers have been shouting it for decades. Wake up America! Wake up America, the socialists are coming!

And now it's here. The Republic is in grave danger. The liberal activist judiciary has tested the waters. If America does not wake up and not only say no, but hell no to this abomination, then what will the emboldened court take next? Well, I don't know about you, but I'm not gonna sit around on my butt doing nothing while we find out.

Call to action: Get off your Butts! Call or write your reps! Voice your opinion. Demand that they do something about this. Tell them that America will not allow this outrage to stand! Demand of your Senators that they move President Bush's judiciary appointments through the Senate! The Democrat controlled Senate is holding up his appointments, hoping to delay as many as they possibly can until Bush appoints judges more to their liking, or possibly even until they can get Gore or Hillary elected in 2004. God forbid!

And, I'm convinced more than ever, that we must have a complete turnover of the judiciary in the next decade. This is critical. The liberal activist judiciary is getting more and more aggressive. If we do not get some conservative judges in there pretty soon, this game is going to be over.

How do we get conservative judges? Well, I can guarantee you that we will not get them as long as the Senate is controlled by Democrats. We must have a Republican President to appoint conservative judges and we must have a Republican majority so they will be moved through the Senate. This is one of the primary reasons why I want to push so hard to help elect Republicans to the Congress and especially to the Senate. And this is why I want to push so hard to help re-elect President Bush in 2004.

Wake up America! And wake up right-wingers! Vote out the Democrats. Vote in a huge Republican majority so we can retake America from the liberals!

We cannot afford a loss or even a squeaker in the next couple of elections. We must have Reaganesque landslides! Send them to Washington with a mandate from the American people! We want a complete turnover and makeover of the judiciary and all of the government. Give is back our Liberty!

This is not the time for sending a negative message. It does us no good for conservatives to sit on their hands or to vote third party. The only message that sends is to say you don't care if we have wall-to-wall liberals forever. The Democrats will love you. The liberal activist judiciary will love you.

The message you should send is one by pen and ink, or by phone calls and personal meetings. Send a message now to your congressmen and to the Republican Party. Now is the time to send the message. Tell them what we want them to run on and what we want them to do when they get in there. Send them a positive message filled with patriotism and love for God and Country. Tell them that we are fed up with the liberals and we want our country back and we want our rights back. Tell your relatives and your friends and neighbors. Tell them to write and call and visit. And tell them to vote for the Republican in their districts. We must do this if we want it back. We cannot afford to fail.

God bless you all and thank you for bearing with me. I love my country and I love my freedom more than life itself. I don't care what anyone says about me, or what labels they pin on me. From this day forward I am a Bush-bot and proud of it! I am going to help turn this thing around or I'm going down in flames trying.

FReegards,

Jim Robinson



TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Breaking News; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: god; northcarolina; oldnorthstate; pledge; unconstitutional
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: Jim Robinson; All
I don't care what anyone says about me, or what labels they pin on me....

bttt.

BTW, in case anyone happened to remember: we are still a nation at war. And, I for one intend to keep praying that God is on our side in this conflict.

Also, earlier this year, FL Gov Jeb Bush signed a new law requiring the Pledge of Allegiance to be said daily in the public schools.


Gov Jeb Bush is way ahead on these issues....

In addition, Gov. Jeb Bush recently signed another new law, requiring public school students to recite the Declaration of Independence. Such new law is explained HERE.
51 posted on 06/27/2002 12:37:29 AM PDT by summer
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To: UncleJeff
And a voluntary pledge is forcing beliefs on someone how, exactly?
52 posted on 06/27/2002 12:37:59 AM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: Jerr
I'm sorry, Jerr, but you are not going nearly far enough--you are placing a bandaid on top of a massive wound. It is time to seperate SCHOOL from State. ELIMINATE the Department of Education, pull your kids out of government schools, support HOMESCHOOLING.

You ask why parents should have to pull their kids out of public schools: that's simple, in my opinion--they are YOUR kids, not The States! You brought them into this world, & a responsible parent should love, discipline, feed, educate, & train them into adulthood. Americans have been too willing to give these responsibilities to The State, & this leads to more State control over our lives, a $6 TRILLION national debt, & the break up of the family, to name a few. Karl Marx would love it.
53 posted on 06/27/2002 12:38:32 AM PDT by libertyman
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To: libertyman
HOMESCHOOLING.

. That is great until the next ruling is that home schooling is unconstitutional. Then what?

54 posted on 06/27/2002 12:40:58 AM PDT by Texasforever
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To: nunya bidness
The 9th circuit handed the Republicans a gift in its decision.

You'd have a valid point if the decision had been made solely by Democrat-appointed judges. But it wasn't. It was one Dem-appointed and one Rep-appointed. Heck, a Republican-appointed judge wrote the darned thing. Twisting this into a pro-Republican election issue is pure demagoguery.

55 posted on 06/27/2002 12:41:16 AM PDT by Sandy
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To: Ms. AntiFeminazi
>> See that giant "R" by his name? That stands for REPUBLICAN. Must you people always contradict yourselves? <<

The Libertarians insist Ron Paul is "one of us" even though their OWN party is actively running a candidate (John Hamilton) AGAINST him in the general election. The truth is that Ron Paul was a Republican long before he temporarily joined the LP; plus most of the Libertarians yapping about how we should have "535 Ron Pauls" in Congress are straight-party voters who would probably vote for Hamilton if they lived in Ron's district.

56 posted on 06/27/2002 12:43:09 AM PDT by BillyBoy
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To: Ms. AntiFeminazi
So I reckon I should throw my full support on idiots such as Sen. John McCain, Lincoln Chaffee, & Rep. Jim Kolbe? Gag me with a spoon!!!!!!
57 posted on 06/27/2002 12:43:56 AM PDT by libertyman
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To: knarf
Two more reasons for every conservative to vote. If Democrats take the House, Henry Waxman will chair the Committee on Government Reform. The Committee "serves as the House’s chief investigative and oversight body, reviewing allegations of waste, fraud and abuse and mismanagement across the Federal government. The Committee’s unique oversight jurisdiction makes it one of the most influential committees in the House of Representatives."

Reason #2: Charles Rangel would chair Ways and Means which is in charge of the following:

Federal revenue measures generally.--The Committee on Ways and Means has the responsibility for raising the revenue required to finance the Federal Government. This includes individual and corporate income taxes, excise taxes, estate taxes, gift taxes, and other miscellaneous taxes.

The bonded debt of the United States.--The Committee on Ways and Means has jurisdiction over the authority of the Federal Government to borrow money.

National Social Security programs.--The Committee on Ways and Means has jurisdiction over most of the programs authorized by the Social Security Act, which includes not only those programs that are normally referred to colloquially as "Social Security" but also social insurance programs and a whole series of grant-in-aid programs to State governments for a variety of purposes.

Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance (title II)

Medicare (title XVIII)

If Democrats get this power back, they will never give it up. Forget the next election. The game will be so rigged, Republicans or anyone else won't stand a chance.

58 posted on 06/27/2002 12:44:12 AM PDT by LarryLied
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To: Jim Robinson; All
For everyone who does not have a valid voter registeration card.
Don't leave home for the voter booth without it.

Federal government information for military absentee voting
and for anyone who has moved and not yet registered again to vote.

The 2002-03 Voting Assistance Guide is the primary source of information
for citizens to understand the procedures for registering and voting
in their state or territory of legal voting residence.



59 posted on 06/27/2002 12:45:24 AM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: libertyman
So I reckon I should throw my full support on idiots such as Sen. John McCain, Lincoln Chaffee, & Rep. Jim Kolbe? Gag me with a spoon!!!!!!

Do you live in their districts?

60 posted on 06/27/2002 12:45:33 AM PDT by Texasforever
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To: Sandy
Actually, this is a gift...you just need to check the package...the judge who wrote the opinion may have been appointed by Nixon, but he's also a Senior Judge...read that as RETIRED! - He was on the bench for this case becasue of vacancies on the court - and who's responsible for that? DASCHLE. And Leaky Leahey. That point needs to be made, and loudly.
61 posted on 06/27/2002 12:45:41 AM PDT by Keith in Iowa
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To: BillyBoy
The truth is Ron Paul is changing the system from within. That is what we should be doing, imo.
62 posted on 06/27/2002 12:46:01 AM PDT by Ms. AntiFeminazi
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To: Jim Robinson
Right On Jim!
63 posted on 06/27/2002 12:46:23 AM PDT by swheats
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To: Texasforever
How so?? Nothing in this ruling prevents anybody from practicing any religion, it just says you can't use Government power and money to make children recite a Pledge that includes an assertion that one monotheistic religion has primacy over all other belief systems. While I understand that the majority of folks here are Christian,(and I have my Nomex BVDs on) not everybody is. A single public school class may well have adherents of Islam, Buddism, Native Americans, Hindus and Athiests, as well as Christians, in it. There is no legal justification, or practical reason, to force those kids to recite The Pledge as modified in 1954. Simply dropping the two words added by Congress would still allow patriotism and respect for the Flag, and what it stands for, to be instilled in kids without offending anyone's religious sensibilities.

If the Constitution doesn't protect all of us it doesn't protect any of us.

64 posted on 06/27/2002 12:47:49 AM PDT by UncleJeff
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To: Sandy
The judiciary is liberal and this is an act of a liberal activist judge regardless of who appointed him. The point stands. We must have a complete turnover of the judiciary and this will not happen if the Democrats are in control. It will only get worse.
65 posted on 06/27/2002 12:49:29 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Sandy
It doesn't matter who wrote the opinion. The soundbite repercussions will make this a R issue if they play it right. The fact that the one judge was pulled out of retirement because of the D failure to appoint judges makes this a win in the R column. If they play it right.

As far as demagoguery, that'll happen later, as it always does.

66 posted on 06/27/2002 12:49:58 AM PDT by nunya bidness
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To: Texasforever
Then what?

I don't think he thought that far ahead ..

67 posted on 06/27/2002 12:50:24 AM PDT by Mo1
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To: Texasforever
who CARES if they say it's unconstitutional? We know differently, just like we know that the pledge is not unconstitutional. Just because they say it doesn't make it so. If they banned Christianity outright tomorrow I wouldn't stop being one. I will not give up my faith, my Bible, my guns, the way I raise my kids, NONE OF IT.

FMCDH
68 posted on 06/27/2002 12:51:04 AM PDT by goodieD
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To: Keith in Iowa
he's also a Senior Judge...read that as RETIRED! - He was on the bench for this case becasue of vacancies on the court

Ah hah. Now that's an excellent point if true. You sure about that?

69 posted on 06/27/2002 12:52:03 AM PDT by Sandy
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To: UncleJeff
Nothing in previous law REQUIRED any child to say the pledge. YOU however are not satisfied with that. YOU want to take a voluntary pledge to a mandated prohibition based on a devout Atheistís religious beliefs. That is an establishment of state religion. That is a direct violation of the Constitution.

70 posted on 06/27/2002 12:52:31 AM PDT by Texasforever
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To: libertyman
see my posts 43 and 62 please. I know McCain doesn't live in TX. ;)
71 posted on 06/27/2002 12:53:07 AM PDT by Ms. AntiFeminazi
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To: Jim Robinson

*Graphic courtesy of Whytehouse.com Graphics

72 posted on 06/27/2002 12:53:23 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: Texasforever
I should have known. Do you just want to argue that losing on principle is better than winning on compromise? If so then you are perfectly happy with more and more of these decisions.

Some can not see that both parties have created this. Some still refuse to admit it. Was not one of these judges a NIXON appointee? Get fired up people fine but don't be blindsidded and let yet more of this type judicary in the door through compromise. Push the GOP? Fine but at least have the GUTS to hold their feet to the fire and demand conservative issues be addressed and not shelved for yet another hollow victory with no substance. It's not the party it's the lack of constitutional accountability on the part of both parties that gave us todays problem. It will not go away by trying to put to put the fire out with gasoline.

Don't try to defeat the DEM's with RINO's it won't work it can't work and we have seen what happens as a result. In less than two short years the GOP lost it's ability to lead this nation. It's the ideals that matter. Policy over politics. Change and I mean drastic change in the direction of the GOP must come soon and fast. You want leaders to abide by the constitution? Then demand it of them!!! It's that simple tell them either abide by it or be replaced AND MEAN IT.

Make elected once again fear the voters wrath at the polls and not take it for granted that they will have a job next election cycle just because of a party ID. That alone short of devine intervention is the only way to reverse this. It has to happen or this is just spitting in the wind. If change in direction doesn't come then putting 10,000 more RINO's & Liberals sitting in both chambers will not solve matters either.

If a politican in any party is wrong on a matter then scream it so, demand change, and most important don't defend it. Do not tolorate it from either side of the isle. Tolorance and compromises with the enemy {Liberals} has been a losing proposition. It's time to stop. It has to stop. The GOP must understand this has to stop.

73 posted on 06/27/2002 12:54:15 AM PDT by cva66snipe
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To: LarryLied
If Democrats take the House, Henry Waxman will chair the Committee on Government Reform.
Reason #2: Charles Rangel would chair Ways and Means which is in charge of the following:

Geez .. thanks for the nightmares I'll have tonight

74 posted on 06/27/2002 12:54:50 AM PDT by Mo1
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To: goodieD
who CARES if they say it's unconstitutional?

While I agree with you NEVER underestimate the forces working aagainst us.

75 posted on 06/27/2002 12:55:20 AM PDT by Texasforever
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To: Jim Robinson
It's already too late. I know that may seem defeatist. But I think it's more realist. If all we have to defend the principles that made this country great are the likes of Bush, Cheney, Lott and the current Republican leadership we are in it up to our earlobes.

Today's Republican leadership doesn't have the stomach to do what it will take to keep the country strong. They're too busy arguing with the same faulty premises that Democrats are. A lite-socialism. Seemingly impotent the lot of them--can you say political viagra.

Because our current Republican leaders constantly and consistently fail to stand on principle we now have a situation where the guy that offer's the biggest gov't check wins the day...period. And this beast's increasing appetite grows by what it feeds on.

The funny thing is: the harder it gets for the average Joe to feed his family, pay for healthcare, etc., (a direct result of huge gov't and tax-greed) the easier it will be for the left to bait him with an "easy" solution--effectively a socialist "panacea".

We've gone so far down that road already that I fear nothing will be done. Not that something can't be done--it simply won't be done.

Today's "right-wing" leader is merely a lesser Democrat: the farm bill, steel, education, gov't growth, social security, campaign finance, immigration, the "patriot" act,etc.

It's easy to be a democrat. Your focus is to steal wealth, attack the producers, feed on the host--certainly not to create anything. Hell, why create when all the work is being done for you? It's criminal to rob your neighbor. So hire a democrat to do the job for you.

It's much more difficult to be the host. Especially when you're ridden with guilt: white guilt, success guilt, wealthy guilt, talent guilt, etc.. When the host is sick on his own its easy for parasites to cling.

76 posted on 06/27/2002 12:56:00 AM PDT by Boucheau
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To: Texasforever
I don't think it's either/or. It's both/and. Home schooling may be the only way to produce a generation which will rise up and call today's liberal nonsense damned, while in the meantime we bail as hard as possible to try to keep it from getting any further.
77 posted on 06/27/2002 12:56:30 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: UncleJeff
Re your post #64 - There is no legal justification, or practical reason, to force those kids to recite The Pledge

In FL, any student who does not want to say it does not have to recite it, but, I believe the [silent] student must also stand up. Frankly, that makes it easier on the teacher, since everyone has to stand, those who want to say the pledge say it, and that's it. I don't think it's depriving anyone of any rights. This past year the FL Legislature got on the case of the FL press reporters for not standing during the Pledge of Allegiance. If someone hates this country so much that they can not show respect for our nation's flag by standing up for it, then, move out of the country already. Other citizens are sacrificing their lives to protect us and this nation.
78 posted on 06/27/2002 12:56:45 AM PDT by summer
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To: Jim Robinson
I think most here will vote Republican in the next Senate and Rep elections. I think the only question will be Bush himself. Tho we'll probably end up voting for him too, it disturbs me that he would take it as a mandate to keep signing BAD laws and spend money faster than a Democrat. Isn't anyone concerned about the freedoms that are being infringed by the new terror legislations? Him I trust, but what would another Bill/Hill/Reno combo do with those new freedoms? THAT's the question.
79 posted on 06/27/2002 12:57:17 AM PDT by brat
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To: Boucheau
It's never too late.
80 posted on 06/27/2002 12:57:19 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson
"Under God."

What else do they want us to worship then? Them? Their findings? Someone's interpretationi of the natural world's wish?

NO THESE PEOPLE ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND SHOULD GO TO JAIL FOR SUBVERTING THE US GOVERNMENT AND INSTITUTING THEIR OWN FINDINGS AS TO BE WORSHIPED

What are the AMerican liberals thinking? This is calling for self-worshiping tyranny aka NorthKorea, China and what not.

81 posted on 06/27/2002 12:57:21 AM PDT by lavaroise
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To: Texasforever
It makes no difference what the guy who brought the action believes. I would oppose any Government promotion of Athiesism, because that too would violate the First Amendment.

If promotion of a single belief system is NOT intended, what's the problem with reciting the Pledge as originally written?? Or as modified in 1923-24??

82 posted on 06/27/2002 12:58:46 AM PDT by UncleJeff
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To: nunya bidness; Jim Robinson
The soundbite repercussions will make this a R issue if they play it right.

"Keith in Iowa" made an interesting point up in reply #61. I don't know if he's correct, but if he is, then that's the point that needs to be hammered.

83 posted on 06/27/2002 12:58:55 AM PDT by Sandy
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To: Sandy
Check out the guy's bio here. He's 80...being a Senior Judge usually indicates retirement. Newt Gingrich was on FoxNews Channel and made the point too.
84 posted on 06/27/2002 12:59:50 AM PDT by Keith in Iowa
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To: All
I considered making a new thread, but think I will piggyback onto this one since it is JR's and should get tons of responses also...:)

Here is my collection of ideas of what we should do and say in response to the ruling based on what I have seen on FR.

First, we need to contact the White House. This is what the press secretary said today:

"MR. FLEISCHER: The President was informed at the G-8 Summit about the San Francisco court decision pertaining to the flag. The President's reaction was that this ruling is ridiculous.

The Supreme Court, itself, begins each of its sessions with the phrase, "God save the United States and this honorable court." The Declaration of Independence refers to God or to the Creator four different times. Congress begins each session of the Congress each day with a prayer. And of course, our currency says, "In God We Trust."

The view of the White House is that this was a wrong decision, and THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS NOW EVALUATING HOW TO SEEK REDRESS."

This is good....but let's keep the pressure on to show Bush he can do a lot even in this situation from the judicial branch.

Here is the switchboard for the WH: 202-456-1414
Here is the comment line: 202-456-1111
Here is the fax number: 202-456-2461

In contacting the White House, I think we should say the following:

1. The President should address the nation and demand his judicial nominees get voted on, since this ruling would not have happened if his nominees would have been put on the bench instead of having a judge come out of retirement to fill the vacancy.
2. The President should call a joint session of Congress, calling for a Constitutional Amendment. No, we don't need one, but the judges aren't able to understand plain language, so let's make it plain. Bush should demand an amendment that will protect the right of God to be in the public schools and that will also restrict the authority of judges in making rulings. They should be required to cite precedent clear back to the founding period on issues that go back as far.
3. The President should publicly call for the impeachment of the two judges in this case.
4. The president should publicly call for a radical changing of the 9th circuit or a defunding altogether.
(Both numbers 3 and 4 could be dealt with heavy-handedly in a joint session of Congress as well).
5. The President could even take a more extreme approach by arresting the judges for arousing disturbance in a time of war.
6. The President should encourage the use of the Pledge by using it more often in public appearances.




As for Congress, we should call for impeachment of the judges in the House. In the Senate, we should call for VOTES ON BUSH'S NOMINEES!

U.S. Capitol numbers (thanks to Mo1):

HERE'S THE TOLL FREE NUMBER FOR THE CAPITOL: 1-800-648-3516

US Capitol Switchboard: (202) 224-3121




We could freep the judge that wrote the opinion (thanks WakeUpChristian). Call Federal Judge Alfred Goodwin and demand
that he immediately resign... (415) 556-9800



Also, an idea of mine:

Are there Freepers from California that are teachers?

I seriously think we should consider encouraging them to violate this ruling when school starts up if they want to. Do we have any money left over from the legal defense fund? We could even support them with that if they have to go to court.




Idea for FReeper Activism (thanks to Spiff for this idea):
Independence Day is coming. In my area, and I'm sure in many other areas, the fireworks display includes some sort of pre-fireworks programs. In my town, we have the 36th Army Band play a brief concert, have a few fireworks and cannons go off during the 'Overture of 1812' and then we have someone sing the National Anthem right before the fireworks begin.

The program has never included a recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance before. In light of the disgusting, anti-American decision by the 9th and in my patriotic desire to resist tyranny, I called the director of the fireworks display and suggested he add the Pledge to the program. He loved the idea and the reason behind it! So, in my town thousands of people are going to celebrate their independence on Independence Day by asserting it and reciting the Pledge on city property at a city-sponsored event. You can rest assured that we will emphasize the "under God" portion of the Pledge.

Independence day is fast approaching. Many FReepers plan on attending various 4th of July events to include fireworks displays, etc. Get on the phone now and do as I did and get the full Pledge of Allegiance to be recited at the events in your area.



85 posted on 06/27/2002 12:59:52 AM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: Texasforever; unix
Under the First Amendment, anyone is free to exercise practically any religious belief they choose; they may not use the power of Government to impose it on anyone else. What's so complicated about the concept??

Because this court just codified a state religion. Atheism.

Hail #39 INDEED!!! IF WE ARE FORCED TO WORSHIP THOSE BASTARDS, THEN THEY CAN GO TO HELLLL!!! Time for revenge.


86 posted on 06/27/2002 1:00:49 AM PDT by lavaroise
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To: Sandy
It's true. We'll see if the R's take advantage of it. Time is short.
87 posted on 06/27/2002 1:03:55 AM PDT by nunya bidness
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Home schooling may be the only way to produce a generation which will rise up and call today's liberal nonsense damned

I am NOT saying the school system is the best and there are many reasons for the problems

But take a good look at the GENERAL public that you think should educate their kids at home ..

Do you REALLY think they could homeschool their kids properly ???

88 posted on 06/27/2002 1:04:04 AM PDT by Mo1
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To: Jim Robinson
QUESTION:

If religion is not kept seperate from state. What would happen to your stance if Muslims somehow become the majority in our great country?

Would not then a complete seperation of church and state appeal to you?

89 posted on 06/27/2002 1:05:06 AM PDT by Boucheau
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To: cva66snipe
If a politican in any party is wrong on a matter then scream it so, demand change, and most important don't defend it. Do not tolorate it from either side of the isle. Tolorance and compromises with the enemy {Liberals} has been a losing proposition. It's time to stop. It has to stop. The GOP must understand this has to stop.

No it is a numbers game. It makes no difference if Rino's are elected to the Senate. It makes a WORLD of difference in who chairs the Judiciary committees however. Look, those "RINO's that you find so distasteful come from districts that WILL NOT elect our brand of conservatives. It just is NOT going to happen. Ronald Reagan understood this an is the father of the "big tent". He did not do this to destroy the GOP but to make sure that the GOP was in a position to create a governing majority. Purists can "feel good" by defeating RINO's BUT 9 times out of 10 that defeat turns out to be a victory for the liberals. There are no longer any of the old conservative democrats in government, there are only rabid socialists. We do not have the luxury to defeat RINO's at the expense of electing socialists.

90 posted on 06/27/2002 1:05:41 AM PDT by Texasforever
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To: Mo1
They'd do it a **** sight better than the public schools do.
91 posted on 06/27/2002 1:05:45 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: brat
That's why we've got to do more than just vote. We've got to write, call, and visit their offices. Now is the time to send them the message. Tell them what we want from them Tell them what we expect of them. Admit to them that we're scared out of our wits because the country has moved so far to the left and we're afraid we're gonna lose it all. Tell them that we need their help to turn it around and that we're sending them up there to do job for us. And spell it out what we expect them to do. They're hearing just the opposite from so many sources now. We've got to over come all that. All of America should be riled up with this one. The Pledge of Allegiance ruled unconstitutional even has the Democrats in the Senate up in arms. This is outrageous! Heard the Senior Democrat say this is STUPID! STUPID! STUPID!
92 posted on 06/27/2002 1:06:00 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Boucheau
The kind of God that is generally acknowledged... Jesus Christ or Allah... does make an immense difference. But I'd rather risk getting Allah than to shut out Jesus Christ.
93 posted on 06/27/2002 1:07:37 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Boucheau
No.
94 posted on 06/27/2002 1:07:48 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Texasforever
Oh, I do not underestimate them..especially not now.. I'm just saying no matter what truly unconstitutional (and unBiblical) laws are passed, I have no plans on obeying them
95 posted on 06/27/2002 1:08:15 AM PDT by goodieD
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To: Texasforever
Actualy, any child can be excused from reciting the pledge for religious reasons. The Jehovas Witnesses have had this excemption for years. What this man (and the liberals who are egging him on) is trying to do is shove his brand of religiousity down everyone elses throat. Well I think they've all bit off more than they can chew. People are very po'd and the back lash is going to be enormous.
96 posted on 06/27/2002 1:08:28 AM PDT by gracie1
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To: Jim Robinson
This is a huge WAKE UP CALL and everybody I've come in contact with today is on your same page...LET'S ROLL...God bless America! Let's stay united and accomplish our mission...TAKE BACK THE SENATE first!
97 posted on 06/27/2002 1:09:59 AM PDT by TatieBug
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To: goodieD
Nor I.
98 posted on 06/27/2002 1:10:15 AM PDT by Texasforever
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To: HiTech RedNeck
I'm am NOT knocking homeschooling ..

If I could do it I would .. but I can't so instead I send my children to private school

But my point was and still is .. take a look at the Public in GENERAL

99 posted on 06/27/2002 1:10:50 AM PDT by Mo1
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To: Boucheau
You know, this tired old argument gets very old. You have no factual support for your view, so this is all you people come up with.

Here are some facts you may be interested in:

1. Jefferson, a guy who wrote about a "wall of separation of church and state," attended church in the Congressional building 3 days after writing that phrase.
2. Jefferson gave federal money to missionaries.
3. Madison, the father of the Bill of Rights, supported, alongside with Jefferson, a bill to "punish Sabbathbreakers" while in the Virginia Legislature. Keep in mind these were two of the most liberal founding fathers.
4. The U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled the public display of the Ten Commandments is wrong, has a statue of Moses and the Commandments in its chambers.
5. It was not until the 1940's when the current radical view of the separation of church and state came about. In fact, previous rulings of the U.S. Supreme Court, as well as state supreme courts, ruled in favor of things as far as blue laws mandating the closing of stores on Sundays.
6. The Northwest Ordinance, which was needed to become a new territory since I think 1787, required that schools support religion and morality.

Furthermore, here are some interesting quotes from Jefferson:

In the Thomas Jefferson Papers at the Library of Congress, the Kentucky Resolution includes this little interesting portion:

"3. Resolved, That it is true as a general principle, and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the Constitution,that "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"; and that no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or freedom of the press being delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, all lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, and were reserved to the States or the people: that thus was manifested their determination to retain to themselves the right of judging how far the licentiousness of speech and of the press may be abridged without lessening their useful freedom, and how far those abuses which cannot be separated from their use should be tolerated, rather than the use be destroyed. And thus also they guarded against all abridgment by the United States of the freedom of religious opinions and exercises, and retained to themselves the right of protecting the same, as this State, by a law passed on the general demand of its citizens, had already protected them from all human restraint or interference. And that in addition to this general principle and express declaration, another and more special provision has been made by one of the amendments to the Constitution, which expressly declares that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press": thereby guarding in the same sentence, and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press: insomuch, that whatever violates either, throws down the sanctuary which covers the others, and that libels, falsehood, and defamation, equally with heresy and false religion,are withheld from the cognizance of federal tribunals. That, therefore, the act of Congress of the United States, passed on the 14th day of July, 1798, intituled "An Act in addition to the act intituled An Act for the punishment of certain crimes against the United States," which does abridge the freedom of the press, is not law, but is altogether void, and of no force."

Letter to Samuel Miller:

"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or free exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the States the powers not delegated to the United States. Certainly, no power to prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in any religious discipline has been delegated to the general government. It must then rest with the States."

Letter to Elbridge Gerry:

"I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another."

The Works of Thomas Jefferson---Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush:

"The successful experiment made under the prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the Constitution, which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment OF A PARTICULAR FORM OF CHRISTIANITY THRO' THE U.S.; and as every sect believes its own form is the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians and Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, and they believe that any portion of power confided in me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly."

(notice that this one indicates a view of the Establishment clause that is of a modern conservative, that it strictly refers to a legal establishment of a faith).


100 posted on 06/27/2002 1:11:02 AM PDT by rwfromkansas
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