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Experts Find Glocks Prone To Accidents
Syracuse Post-Standard ^ | 8/7/02 | John O'Brien

Posted on 08/07/2002 6:24:01 AM PDT by jalisco555

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To: lavaroise
"I see no use of the safety in Glocks, just keep it in DA mode and things should be fine"

1. There are no safeties on a Glock.

2. Glocks are always in DA mode as they are DAO.
121 posted on 08/07/2002 5:57:05 PM PDT by gc4nra
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To: Mulder
The only bad thing (with the Sig) is the transition between DA and SA. But it's either that, or carrying a 1911-style gun (with a manual safety, which I don't care for), or a Glock with a light first trigger pull.

The Sig is my handgun of choice, have worked with the P-220 extensively. In my experience its possible to learn transition from the first DA shot to SA and place all rounds very tight at realistic rapid gunfight ranges (seven to twenty-five yards IMO.)

122 posted on 08/07/2002 5:58:44 PM PDT by toddst
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To: toddst; XeniaSt; dix; humblegunner
An unloaded gun is a rock.

If one gets shot in the arm it is difficult to rack the slide. It has been done using the holsters and in one case that I read about with the upper front teeth. Caused tooth damage but a dentist performed the repairs not a mortician.

Stay safe; stay armed.

Artillery brings dignity to an otherwise vulgar brawl.

123 posted on 08/07/2002 5:58:52 PM PDT by Eaker
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To: Travis McGee
I'm not a Glock fan either. I don't care for the trigger pull.

I had something happen to me with my Sig though, a few other guys had it happen also.

We were shooting on the range and practicing speed re-loads. I emptied one mag, inserted another mag and slapped it in the magazine well pretty hard. Apparently the extractor somehow hit the side of the first round and pierced it, causing the round to go off. The round partially ejected and was stuck on the extractor. Fragments of the casing hit me in the face but I wasn't injured.

I don't know if Sig has had any similar complaints but it happened to a few of us. Not long afterward we turned in the Sigs for the Glocks.

The range officer didn't know what caused it to happen, and I don't either, never did find out. I guess just a slam fire. Unusual that the casing blew up though.

Maybe someone with more experience knows what happened.

One of our guys had an interesting experience last week. Guys on the shift arrested a woman for robbery. She had a piece of junk .380. The officer took the mag out and operated the slide a few times to see if there was a round in the chamber. After he racked it a few times and let it go he had a slam fire and the weapon discharged. Apparently the extractor was faulty.

He goofed by not looking into the chamber.

The round went into the carpet. When he went out to the range the next week the range officer had carpet on his target. We're teasing him no end.

124 posted on 08/07/2002 6:08:02 PM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Eaker
If one gets shot in the arm it is difficult to rack the slide. It has been done using the holsters and in one case that I read about with the upper front teeth.

10-4 on the unloaded gun. There are several other techniques I learned for racking the slide one-handed via Gunsite. Their courses are excellent IMHO.

125 posted on 08/07/2002 6:10:23 PM PDT by toddst
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To: toddst
The Sig is my handgun of choice, have worked with the P-220 extensively.

My next Sig will probably be a 220 (or a 239 in 357 Sig).

126 posted on 08/07/2002 6:13:40 PM PDT by Mulder
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To: Cap'n Crunch
I had something happen to me with my Sig though, a few other guys had it happen also.

What model Sig and what ammo was it, if I can ask?

127 posted on 08/07/2002 6:18:27 PM PDT by Mulder
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To: Travis McGee
Hey, there is even an aftermarket Glock accessory which is a "clipit" fitted under the grip to hang onto your belt as you shove it inside your jeans. NO THANKS!

I agree with that. That's an ND waiting to happen. Glocks and Kahrs REQUIRE a quality holster than covers the trigger guard.

Off topic - the Drew Carey episode that's on right now on ABC has Oswald and Lewis as airport security screeners! ROFLOL! "Hey, at least we did find a polyp on that last guy"

128 posted on 08/07/2002 6:20:30 PM PDT by FreedomPoster
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To: jalisco555
It is a training/brainpower problem.

The Glock will not fire unless you pull the trigger.

Adding various safeties will not completely overcome the problem of idiots who pull the trigger when they should not.

It is amazing how many cops forget that to unload a semi-auto you have to remove the magazine AND clear the chamber (take the bullet out of the barrel).

Maybe cops should be issued revolvers only.

129 posted on 08/07/2002 6:42:51 PM PDT by LibKill
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To: Mulder
Let me get my old brain cells firing here...

Sig P226? It was the 9mm and I think we were firing Federal ammo. We've gone through so many different brands of ammo. I think it was the Federal hydro shoks.

There was a shooting in a city nearby here on a barricaded suspect. SWAT eventually went in and got into a shootout with the guy. Afterward during the investigation they counted all the holes from the rounds. There was a pretty good number of holes. What they found was the jackets were peeling off the (if I remember right) hydro shoks after they would hit something. (I know that doesnt have anything to do with what I experienced, just thought I'd throw it in for conversation)

130 posted on 08/07/2002 6:43:11 PM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: LibKill
Surely you don't think cops are the only ones who have negligent discharges?
131 posted on 08/07/2002 6:46:59 PM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Cap'n Crunch
Surely you don't think cops are the only ones who have negligent discharges?

Of course not, it just seems more than average.

If a civillian or a military man claims it was an 'accident', I am a little suspicious as to whether it really was a negligent discharge, or intentional.

If it was law enforcement I am more apt to say, "There but for the sake of 'DOH!' go I.

132 posted on 08/07/2002 6:51:38 PM PDT by LibKill
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To: LibKill
Sadly alot of people who get on the police force aren't very firearms oriented. Then having to carry one day in and day out can make you pretty lax.

I know about lax, I've been handling guns since I was 16, and shamefacedly have to admit that in a moment of complete stupidity blew up my locker in the police basement.

I haven't lived that one down. And you ought to hear them hoot if I miss something, no matter what I'm shooting at, or what I'm shooting because I'm one of the snipers on the SWAT team.

I cranked off two at a moving pit bull a few weeks ago and missed. There still talking about that. A brother just can't get a break LOL.

133 posted on 08/07/2002 7:05:16 PM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: toddst
XS>If you are teaching an NRA course with Jeff Cooper rules, you should have your ticket pulled.

XS>The Jeff Cooper Rules have been proven statistically to cause so-called ADs.


t>First, I don't teach the NRA course using anything other than NRA materials.

t>Second, show me the statistics on Cooper Rules causing "Negligent Discharges." There are no "Accidental Discharges -
period. If the gun fires and you weren't in control, thats negligence.

t>I don't usually become confrontational over something like this, but in your case I have to say you are wrong - outright -
unless you can provide something to back up your claim about Cooper Rules.

t>I have taken three courses at Gunsite Orange (while the school was still directed by Col. Cooper) and there was no
indication of any problems with his rules. No NDs while I was there and no mention of same from instructors I have known.

t>So, back up your claim.

111 posted on 8/7/02 5:32 PM Mountain by toddst


Nowhere in the NRA Pistol syllabus is there any reference to anything close to Jeff Cooper rules.
I doubt that you are a NRA Certified Pistol Instructor.
If you were, you would know there is no longer any reference to any rules close to Jeff Cooper's rules.

The NRA used rules much like his rules 25 years ago,
however based on much statistical data on Safety, the rules have evolved to what they are today.

Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.

If you need information about safety in shooting, please check with your Training Counselor who trained you
or contact the
NRA Training site in Virginia.


I don't believe Jeff Cooper is the business of Gun Safety.
I do know that the NRA is in the business of Gun Safety and Marksmanship and have been for 130 years.

NRA gun safety site


Learn Safe Shooting at
LibertyNetwork

Chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>






134 posted on 08/07/2002 7:24:04 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012
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To: Eaker
Slander a gun I have never shot? Where did I do that? I have shot many, many rounds through a Glock.

I admit I never did like them, but I would never bash a gun just because I did'nt like it. We each have our own personal tastes, which of course vary from person to person. That is completely understandable.

Did you click on the hyperlink in my post #67? Look closely at those pictures. I'm pretty sure that Glock NEVER blew up but once. Once would seem to be enough.

All the safety practices in the world will not stop a catastrophic case head failure in an unsafe firearm.

The Glocks do not provide sufficient case head support.


135 posted on 08/07/2002 8:34:42 PM PDT by Living Stone
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To: jalisco555
If a person is so stupid, not to clear the chamber, after removing the magazine, no matter the weapon. That person has no business using semi auto weapons!
136 posted on 08/07/2002 8:38:10 PM PDT by TJFLSTRAT
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To: Cap'n Crunch
Carpet on his target?! Funny. I won't say who could have a locker door as a target. That's another story.
137 posted on 08/07/2002 8:47:33 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: FreedomPoster
I'll check it out when it comes on the left coast, thanks!
138 posted on 08/07/2002 8:48:50 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Cap'n Crunch
I was not refering to your locker door, but mine went overboard and was replaced in secret so it doesn't count.
139 posted on 08/07/2002 8:50:52 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Eaker
Find cover. Go foward bending weak side knee, knelling on strong side knee(strong side being uninjured side). Use heel of shoe to cock slide. Takes practice.
140 posted on 08/07/2002 9:16:49 PM PDT by gc4nra
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