Philippines - Two Jehovah's Witnesses hostages decapitated by Abu Sayyaf

AFP via Babelfish translation ^ | August 21, 2002

[HAL9000]

An hostage decapitated in the south of the Philippines

Wednesday August 21, 2002 - 23h40 GMT

ZAMBOANGA (the Philippines), August 22 (AFP) - One of the six Christian hostages Filipinos removed by supposed islamists of the group Abu Sayaf in the south of the Philippines Wednesday was decapitated by its kidnappers, one learned military Thursday of source.

The head of the hostage was found Wednesday evening near the headquarters of the army, in the capital of the island of Jolo, one specified of the same source.

---

A second hostage decapitated in the south of the Philippines

Thursday August 22, 2002 - 0h20 GMT

ZAMBOANGA (the Philippines), August 22 (AFP) - a second hostage among the six Christians Filipinos removed by supposed islamists of the group Abu Sayaf in the south of the Philippines Wednesday was decapitated by his kidnappers, one learned military Thursday of source.

The second head was found, packed in a plastic bag, close to the market of the capital of the island of Jolo, while the first head had been discovered near the headquarters of the army, according to the General Romeo Tolentino.

"Those which do not believe in Allah will undergo the same fate", said a note found close to one of the two heads, specified the Tolentino General.

Six Witnesses of Jéhovah, agents sales in beauty products, had been kidnapped Tuesday in the town of Patikul on the island of Jolo, one of the strongholds of Abu Sayyaf.

The removal was carried out by the men of the gang directed by a local head, Moin Sahiron, nephew of Radulan Sahiron, a veteran of the separatist wars in the Moslem south of the archipelago.

The group Abu Sayyaf, whose last taking of hostages goes back to last October, is specialized in the taking of hostages in order to obtain ransoms.

Jolo is one of the strongholds of Abu Sayyaf which had taken to last year three Americans as hostages. One was released in June and two died. The island was not the target of the American intervention which was completed at the end of July and concentrated on Basilan.

Three Indonésiens kidnapped in June are also held by other Moslem separatists reconverted into the banditism on Jolo.

[Kenton]

I rarely behead Jehovah's Witnesses, but I have been known to pretend nobody was home when they knocked on the door...

[freeperfromnj]

My take on the issue is that any group will have bad apples.

Sorry, but it only took 19 of them to take 3,000 lives. After witnessing September 11 first hand, after watching footage of numerous suicide bombings committed by Palestinian muslims and Pakistani muslims killing Christians and Hindus (not to mention what they did to Daniel Pearl) and the horror perpetrated by muslims in the Phillipines I'm just fresh out of tolerance.

[Jake0001]

On the other hand it just took a small airplane crew of Americans to wipe out 100,000 Japanese at Hiroshima.

Bush could decimate the entire region's population with just the simple order to launch some nuclear tipped ICBMs. We have the advantage.

We could obliterate any of those nations easily if we decided not to be discriminatory about what we bombed.

Heck, we subjugated the land of Afghanistan with 25 million people in it with fewer than 25,000 soldiers.

Unlike them, we use our resources and money efficiently and intelligently. We have an economy and currency that dominates the globe (note foreign journalists almost always convert the foreign dollars into equivalent US dollars). They are jealous of our prosperity, good fortune and our inginuity. I bet there isn't a building a quarter the height of the WTC in the entire region.

Those poor saps who look up to the fanatics are deluded into thinking we stole from them, when in fact it was the fanatics who did so (either by direct thievery or by scaring away investment). Those fanatics will one day face a day of reckoning when their followers realize that they had been conned.

[Diamond]

Well, from my point of view, all religions are equally false.

How could you possibly know such a thing? Are you God?

Cordially,

[Dialup Llama]

>Good grief,they captured six Avon ladies...........

Its amazing how the jihadis boldly attack the strongest military targets... sleeping 5 year old children, unarmed women...

If the villagers in Indonesia, India and the Phillipines were armed to any degree and if their cultural attitudes regarding self defense and self preservation were changed, the jihadis would flee like they were in some Monty Python skit.

[OldFriend]

Interesting too how American women are realizing they can and should arm themselves for their own safety. This must be driving the libs mad.

[andy_card]

How could you possibly know such a thing?

The powers of human reason.

Are you God?

Yes. I am master of my own destiny. I am my own God. And no, I have not been struck by lightning.

[lodwick]

Murdering bastards - kill them all and bttt

[js1138]

"Those which do not believe in Allah will undergo the same fate"

Holding my breath for this sentiment to be denounced by Muslims.

[Diamond]

Not to discount the power of human reason, but you as a finite human being, have not and cannot examine all of the evidence concerning religion that exists. Since some unknown fact may prove your limited understanding of religion to be mistaken, you cannot be certain that all the evidence is in support of your position. Thus you are in no position to positively assert that all religions are equally false, unless of course you were God, and therefore omniscient. That's why I asked.

Cordially,

[andy_card]

Not to discount the power of human reason, but you as a finite human being, have not and cannot examine all of the evidence concerning religion that exists.

But there is no evidence pointing to the veracity of any religion. That's the point. You're supposed to accept their dogma on blind faith alone.

Since some unknown fact may prove your limited understanding of religion to be mistaken, you cannot be certain that all the evidence is in support of your position.

Well, that's always true with anything. But based on the evidence available to me, its safe to say that there's no rational reason for belief in any divine or supernatural being.

Thus you are in no position to positively assert that all religions are equally false

Um, no. I can say that all religions are false, just as I can say that the world isn't flat. Could some evidence ever be produced that would conclusively demonstrate that all of our round-earth beliefs have all been mass-delusions and optical illusions? Conceivably, that's possible. We'll cross that bridge if as and when we come to it, but until that point, I'll continue to make declarative statements.

[M Kehoe]

When the Abu Sayaf were killed two months ago in a raid to save those other missionaries, did they bury them covered in pigs blood in an unmarked grave?

If not, then we have not paid attention to history.

5.56mm

[Diamond]

But there is no evidence pointing to the veracity of any religion. That's the point.

There you go again. There is no way that you can know for certain that there is no evidence pointing to the veracity of any religion, which is actually what you do acknowledge in your next statement that:

Well, that's always true with anything...

But based on the evidence available to me, its safe to say that there's no rational reason for belief in any divine or supernatural being.

You do not have enough information to know for certain that it is safe to say that there's no rational reason for any belief in any divine or supernatural being, because you are a finite human being who has not and cannot examine all of the evidence concerning religion that exists. The assertion that the world isn't flat is based on empirical observations that the earth is a globe. However, your assertion that there's no rational reason for belief in any divine or supernatural being is not an empirical observation, it is a metaphysical assertion.

The best you can do is the expression of a personal doubt, namely that you haven't come across any evidence that you are willing to regard as providing a rational basis for belief in any divine or supernatural being.

Cordially,

[HAL9000]

What does the Abu Sayyaf have to do with Danny Pearl?

The Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines and the murderers of Daniel Pearl in Pakistan are indirectly related through al Qaeda connections.

[andy_card]

This is what I gather from your argument:

1. Somewhere, there may be evidence that God exists, you just haven't seen it. Presumably, its hiding under a rock.
2. Therefore, you should just assume that God exists.

There is plenty of evidence that the world was created solely through natural phenomena. As such, there is no need for a God.

The best you can do is the expression of a personal doubt, namely that you haven't come across any evidence that you are willing to regard as providing a rational basis for belief in any divine or supernatural being.

Um, is that wrong? Unless you can give me a reason, supported by logic or evidence, to believe in anything, I won't believe in it. That includes God, cold fusion, the Easter Bunny, and Martha Stewart's imClone alibi.

[Jeff Chandler]

Christian radicals hate secularists just as much as Muslim radicals. Muslim radicals merely take it just a couple of steps further.

To go from indignation to decapitation would require more than a couple steps.

To equate the cultural battle between conservative Christians and secular humanists with the cultural battle between radical Islam and Western Civilization is to engage in moral relativism.

The former is a battle for the hearts and minds of a free people, and is being waged in the marketplace of ideas. The latter is a battle for our survival as a free people, and is being waged in a pool of blood.

[Jake0001]

That depends (there goes my relativity again).

I willingly denounce that comment due to its unfair generalization of politically oriented/active Christians.

However, to judge a religion with as much of a following as Islam based on fanatical, violent lunatics isn't fair either.

Should we presume ALL catholic priests are pedophiles?

Should we presume ALL small independent protestant sects to be doomsday cults along the lines of the Branch Dividians?

How'd you like it if all the Muslims based their opinions of Christians based on experiences with Jehovah's Witnesses?

[TLBSHOW]

Islam is false and a fake.

[Saundra Duffy]

Oh, my God, Jehovah! This is just horrible. Horrible! God bless the families.

[Saundra Duffy]

They must be stopped - NOW!!!!!!!!