AN AXIS TO GRIND: The War Won't End in Baghdad

OpinionJournal ^ | September 4, 2002 | MICHAEL LEDEEN

[xsysmgr]

Now that we are set to have our great debate on the war against terrorism, it seems it will be the wrong debate.

By all indications, the discussion will be about using our irresistible military might against a single country in order to bring down its leader. We should instead be talking about using all our political, moral and military genius to support a vast democratic revolution to liberate all the peoples of the Middle East from tyranny. That is our real mission, the essence of the war in which we are engaged, and the proper subject of our national debate.

[gundog]

...are even now openly calling for a considerable democratization of the kingdom's politics.

The Saudi royals are the Third World version of noveau riche white trash. A democratic Saudi Arabia is every Americans worst nightmare...except that the sheepskin will finally be off the wolf.

Avert your eyes when you look to Mecca, infidel...there may be a very bright flash soon.

[Momaw Nadon]

Check out the Attack on Iraq Betting Pool

The pool is still open and predictions are still being accepted!

[Kermit]

The Antiwar clique doesn't get it. We've tried to stay out of their politics. We support the existence of Israel, they want to slaughter the Jews. Get over it, it ain't gonna happen. The Middle East terror-supporting States have been attacking us, since the mid-60's. With 9/11, they invited us in to solve their problems.

We're not going to allow those States to sponsor terrorism any more. They can stop on their own or we'll do it for them. Saddam and Iraq are only the next step after Afghanistan. Saddam is unreformable and he must go.

What comes after Iraq, I don't know. I do know Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia are all on the list. The establishment of an anti-terror, pro-America Iraq will sure make the next steps much easier. I support the partition of (Saudi) Arabia into several Arab Emirates. Bahrain, Qatar and Kuwait are NOT problems to the US and let's add to their ranks. The Ba'athist regimes of Iraq and Syria will go. Iran's Mullah regime will go. What follows is less our problem and will ultimately be up to the people of those countries.

[EternalHope]

The author of this article is both right and wrong.

No one, including us, can do everything at once. If we tried to define all objectives at once, we could find it impossible (or much more difficult) to accomplish ANY of them.

The first step, toppling Saddam, is clear. Once we do, the next steps will be easier to define, and much easier to accomplish.

For instance, Iraq will make a great staging area for operations against Iran, Syria, and/or Saudi Arabia. The strategic situation will have changed dramatically in our favor. All kinds of good things might happen...

[Burkeman1]

Indeed, it is a very traditional sort of war, one at which the U.S. has always excelled: It is a war against tyrants and in the name of freedom. Our greatest weapon in this war is the people oppressed by tyrannical regimes. They constitute a lethal dagger aimed at the hearts of their rulers. And knowing this, the tyrants fear us.

Absolutley false and stunningly ignorant. Why does Mr. Leeden suppose that we support the Saudi ruling family? Why does he suppose that we abandoned the shiite uprising in Iraq at the end of the gulf war? Why does he suppose that we support corrupt and oppressive regimes all over the middle east? Is it because "the people" are clamoring for Democracy and freedom and liberty and are starving for western style government and culture? No- the exact and total opposite. We support the rulers we do and allowed Sadaam to remain in power because if they were to fall they would be replaced by radical Islamic totalitarian regimes.

Western thinking has barely penetrated the Islamic world. You can count the number of Arab or Muslem pro western intellectuals on one hand. The people in these countries don't look to western ideas and ways as there deliverance from oppression- just the opposite- they look to radical islamic groups. Osama is a folk hero to the common man on the street in these countries! Leeden is either dangerously ignorant or a knowing purveyour of untruth. There is no great groundswell of western support among these people- not in the slightest.

[TexasRepublic]

...support a vast democratic revolution to liberate all the peoples of the Middle East from tyranny. That is our real mission...

The writer is an deluded! He apparently does not understand democracy or Islam. Islam and democracy are incompatible; Islam demands submission to its self-appointed leaders, not representative government by consent of the masses.

[Technocrat]

My Grandfather's WW II bomber was named The Axis Grinder :)

[carton253]

If President Bush has his way... then this great object lesson for other states will cause them to dismantle their own terrorist organizations. If it does not, then Iran, Syria, Sudan, Palestinian Authority, and Saudi Arabia will know that America will not falter, will not tire, and will not fail in this war.

The terrorists will have no place to go, no place to run, no place to set up shop, have no one to provide political cover.

Our list is prioritized. And as the world sees that we are true to our mission, then more will join us. Terrorism must be eradicated from the face of the earth... and then the world must be vigilant to make sure it is not resurrected.

Since the militant side of Islam and Pan-Arabism will not die... our vigilance must be even more so. It would be a shame if we only fought 1/2 way and suddenly got satisfied. That means we will be refighting the war in another 5 or 6 wars. The stakes go up because the means of terrorist executing their terror goes up.

As for me... I never want to see another building collapse. Let's fight it now. Later may prove too late.

[nothingnew]

Mr. Ledeen is on Dennis Prager right now on KLRA.

Very good stuff.

FMCDH

[MLedeen]

you dolt, you can't even spell my name

[Burkeman1]

Well- I have no argument for that. Thanks.

[Burkeman1]

Eradicate terrorism from the face of the earth? Like the war on drugs and the war on poverty were successful? Can we get rid of all evil why we are it as well? I for one would rather fight an enemy with an achievable and realistic goals. I certainly don't want to take on and try to reform an eintre barbaric backward culture and I most certainly don't want to fight something as nebulous and never ending as a "war on terrorism." When we first have realistic domestic security measures in place and screen immigrants with fine tooth combs then I will take the war of "terrorism" seriously. If we were really serious about preventing another 9/11 we would not have the laughable security we have now at our aiports, custom centers, and borders.

[Burkeman1]

We stayed out of their politics? Is that a joke? We are the chief supporter and backer of a dozen corrupt governments in that region of the world (a major portion of Osama's propaganda appeal).

And after we have invaded and broke apart all these countries will democracy flourish, tolerance reign, and they love the USA and not want to attack us or sponsor terrorism again? I have a bridge to sell you. This article is nutty.

[carton253]

Your objections are duly noted.

[headsonpikes]

"We are the one truly revolutionary country on earth."

Let's hope the revolution spreads and destroys the international 'order'. ;^)

[That Subliminal Kid]

The people in these countries don't look to western ideas and ways as there deliverance from oppression

How do you know? And why do people like the author who are far more distinguished scholars, disagree with you?

[Burkeman1]

I have an opinion and a mind that's why. And distinguished scholars like Samuel Huntington who wrote "Clash of Civiliazations" and study the middle east for a living would totally disagree with Ledeen as well. Ledeen hasn't a clue in my opinion. The above article is scary for the shear scope of it's flawed assumptions and unsupported suppositions. You don't base a major military and global commitment- indeed- civiliazation changing crusade on vagueries like the whims of "the people". Does Ledeen have a TV? Has he seen the reacitons of the common man in the street to 9/11? Does he have a clue as the pulse of the Arab and Islamic world other than little anecdotes about Indian disco music and some college kids supporting the US in Iran? Ledeen offers nothing in the way of fact- alot in the way of rhetoric.

[Kermit]

Other than Mossadegh in Iran in '53, we may have supported the "existing" governments in the area, but we didn't tell them what to do politically, we didn't put them into power. We haven't told the Saudis what to do, what their politics ought to be. Egypt's the only Arab government, we've given loads of money to.

If we can set up a better situation for the ordinary Iraqi, yes they'll think well of the US.

They already attack us and sponsor terrorism, up to now, there's been no cost for that. Now, the leaders are going to start paying the price.

[Burkeman1]

Interesting- we condemned Fujimora in Peru for petty corruption and demanded his ouster even though he was elected but at the same time we were utterly silent when the military took over in Algeria becasue radical islamicists won the election. We support the dictaorship in Pakistan when they staged a coup of a demcratically elected government, in Yemen, and the corrupt elites of Eygpt and the Saudi kleptocracy is our best buddy according to Bush. We can hardly be seen as a force for "freedom" in that region with such a record. In fact I would seethe with rage if I were an Pakistanni radical whenever I heard the US bleep on about "democracy" and "freedom".

I have no doubt that if we were to invade Iraq it would be a cake walk. It would over in two weeks. And then we would even be treated to pictures of Iraqis kissing our boys in the streets on CNN. Then what? How long are we going to be there? How long before the shiites go after the ruling Sunnis? How long before terrorism and guerilla activity starts? It is already happening in Afghanistan now. And after Ira q then what? Are we going to take over an entire civilization of a billion people and trty to make them good little democrats like we did the germans and the Japanese?