Posted on 12/25/2002 5:14:21 PM PST by attagirl
But, I think it has become more of a FReeper sport than anything.
The best description I have ever heard about purgatory was on a Catholic Radio station program (I THINK it was on Catholic Answers, on WDEO out of Ann Arbor). It went something like this:
"A husband went on tour of Europe...he was gone for several months. On his return home, he hitchhiked across many dirt roads...eventually returning home.
When he did arrive home, his wife met him on the porch giving a big hug. He tried to enter into the house, but the wife stopped him. She said , "you're not entering into the house until you clean up and wash off all that dust you've accumulated from hitchhiking in those back roads, my wonderful husband. Let me bring you a basin and a cloth to clean yourself before you enter our home".
The husband was home; the wife was ecstatic to have him home, and could not wait until he entered the house; but he had to "clean up" before he come into the house.
In the same way, our Lord meets us on "porch", and cannot wait until we enter the Fathers house. However, we must "clean up" before we enter. "Purgatory" is where our souls are "cleaned up" prior to entering the Fathers house, and the sight of God. The death of Jesus brought us home (to the porch), but we still have to be "cleaned up" before we enter the house."
Merry Christmas, and God Bless.
We are saved by grace
through faith
and not of works.
Neither I nor another can affect my salvation that was 'gifted' to me
(and I accepted the gift).
The whole concept of 'working' to God or heaven
or another praying/paying my way out of a holding cell
is anathema to the doctrine of Christ.
Merry CHRISTmas.
Merry CHRISTmas.
You seemed to have missed one of the main concepts of my previous posts, which was that Jesus paid the price for His followers to get to heaven, and that those whose believe in Him and follow His Word will get to Heaven...however, some of us have to be cleaned up a bit before we enter the sight of God.
YOU cannot work or pray yourself out of purgatory once you are there..however others can.
If you think that you and I don't soil ourselves a bit (i.e., sin) before we die, even if we believe in Christ, then we differ too much to even have an amicable discussion. However, if you admit that we all sin even after coming to our Lord Jesus (i.e, being saved), doesn't it make sense that we would have to be cleansed before coming into the presence of the Father?
For further clarification and truth, please reference the following web site...this response to purgatory is by a well known former protestant minister/teacher (Scott Hahn) who became a Catholic after researching the many topics that divided him from the Church.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/PURGATRY.TXT
Before. It says God knew us before we were formed.
How did you come to that conclusion? Our souls didn't have to exist yet for God to know us. He is outside of time, and thus He knows you as well as He knows those who won't be born for another hundred years
Jerimian 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee..."
That's a polite understatement. If Protestants could only see that they aren't fit to enter Heaven in their present condition, they'd understand the necessity of Purgatory.
Jesus' supreme sacrifice made Heaven available to us, but we can't bring our sinful inclinations, pettiness and malice in with us. Those traits aren't permitted in Heaven. In Purgatory, by the mercy of God, we will be cleansed us of these faults so that we can worthily enter Heaven for eternity.
His knowledge of us, yes. I didn't dispute that.
But what does that have to do with when our souls were created?
That's a semantical argument.
I assumed most people define the inner "us" that makes us unique to be the soul.
Obviously, whatever you wish to call this, God does know us individually prior to conception. Most people would probably define this as our "soul"
You are free to not agree of course, but I think that's a good, working definition and probably what the poster had in mind when he asked.
I think you forgot a sarcasm tag there Steve.
I agree with you.
Obviously, whatever you wish to call this, God does know us individually prior to conception. Most people would probably define this as our "soul"
What do you mean by the latter "this"? Does God's knowledge of us cause us to exist? Or can He know all about us before He decides to create us?
The "latter this" is in reference to the "inner us" that makes us unique.. from the first sentence.
I don't know the mechanics behind all of our creation.. I am not a theologian and I don't play one on tv. It is sufficient for me to know [and to answer the question] that he knows us as individuals prior to conception.
Anyone wishing more in depth information will have to consult someone much more knowledgable than myself.
No (and I didn't make my point clear), but I just got an undeniable request to turn the damned computer off for the night. Will reply tomorow.
A very profound remark! There are millions of things not mentioned in the Bible, does that mean they don't exist??
Your idea so simplistic that it defies those who are so versed in the Bible and yet deny of such a place's existence...."May the souls of the faithful departed rest in peace and may everlasting light shine upon them."
"which was that Jesus paid the price for His followers to get to heaven,"
If the price is paid ... the price is paid.
"and that those whose believe in Him and follow His Word will get to Heaven..."
Following God's Word is not needed to be saved. Believing (faith) is the only necessity
"however, some of us have to be cleaned up a bit before we enter the sight of God."
We are washed by His blood at the moment of salvation.
Purgatory is a false doctrine designed to keep capture those that want to believe in it.
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