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Three mystery ships are tracked over suspected 'weapons' cargo
independent.co.uk ^ | 2/19/03

Posted on 02/18/2003 4:47:00 PM PST by knak

Three giant cargo ships are being tracked by US and British intelligence on suspicion that they might be carrying Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.

Each with a deadweight of 35,000 to 40,000 tonnes, the ships have been sailing around the world's oceans for the past three months while maintaining radio silence in clear violation of international maritime law, say authoritative shipping industry sources.

The vessels left port in late November, just a few days after UN weapons inspectors led by Hans Blix began their search for the alleged Iraqi arsenal on their return to the country.

Uncovering such a deadly cargo on board would give George Bush and Tony Blair the much sought-after "smoking gun" needed to justify an attack on Saddam Hussein's regime, in the face of massive public opposition to war.

The ships were chartered by a shipping agent based in Egypt and are flying under the flags of three different countries. The continued radio silence since they left port, in addition to the captains' failure to provide information on their cargoes or their destinations, is a clear breach of international maritime laws.

The vessels are thought to have spent much of their time in the deep waters of the Indian Ocean, berthing at sea when they need to collect supplies of fuel and food. They have berthed in a handful of Arab countries, including Yemen.

American and British military forces are believed to be reluctant to stop and search the vessels for fear that any intervention might result in them being scuttled. If they were carrying chemical and biological weapons, or fissile nuclear material, and they were to be sunk at sea, the environmental damage could be catastrophic.

Washington and London might also want to orchestrate any raids so that they can present the ships as "evidence" that President Saddam is engaged in "material breach" of UN resolutions. This could provide the trigger for military strikes. While security sources in London last night were unable to provide information on any surveillance operation, the movement of the three ships is the source of growing concern among maritime and intelligence experts.

A shipping industry source told The Independent: "If Iraq does have weapons of mass destruction, then a very large part of its capability could be afloat on the high seas right now. These ships have maintained radio silence for long periods and, for a considerable time, they have been steaming around in ever-decreasing circles."

The ships are thought to have set sail from a country other than Iraq to avoid running the gauntlet of Western naval vessels patrolling the Gulf. Defence experts believe that, if they are carrying weapons of mass destruction, these could have been smuggled out through Syria or Jordan.

Despite hundreds of searches by UN inspectors, no evidence has yet been found of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programmes. A succession of "dossiers" presented by Downing Street has been criticised for providing inaccurate information, with the most recent one subject to ridicule because a student's 11-year-old doctoral thesis was being passed off as current intelligence. There was a further setback for Washington and London when the accuracy of satellite photographs shown to the United Nations by Colin Powell, the Secretary of State, purporting to show Iraqi officials moving incriminating evidence from a suspected site, was questioned by Hans Blix.

Mr Blix said: "The reported movement of munitions at the site could just as easily have been a routine activity as a movement of proscribed munitions in anticipation of an imminent inspection."

Attempts to link the Iraqi regime to al-Qa'ida and other Islamist groups have also been met with scepticism. The UN says, though, that Iraq has failed to account for 1,000 tonnes of chemical agents from the war against Iran; to reveal the whereabouts of 6,500 missing chemical rockets; to produce evidence it has destroyed 8,500 litres of anthrax; and to account for 380 rocket engines smuggled into Iraq with chemicals used for missile propellants and control systems.

Intelligence reports, and some Iraqi defectors, have maintained that incriminating material and documents relating to weapons of mass destruction have been buried in remote parts of the country and have also been hidden in a variety of locations including homes of officials and scientists, as well as mosques. There have also been claims that chemical and biological products have been smuggled into Syria.


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: 200211; 200302; 20030219; 20031018; alnashiri; alqaeda; armssmuggling; blix; bokastar; cristi; egypt; hansblix; indianocean; interdiction; iraq; iraqiwmd; jordan; maritimesecurity; mysteryships; navy; nova; portsaid; portsecurity; radiosilence; sara; seaportsecurity; ships; syria; tonga; twillinger; warlist; wmd; wmdships; yemen
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To: null and void
No! Still NYC and Wash DC are prime targets
181 posted on 02/18/2003 11:48:20 PM PST by CyberAnt ( Yo! Syracuse)
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To: section9
My thought is that the Royal Navy, perhaps the Royal Australian Navy, and ourselves have been passively tracking these vessels with JSTARS aircraft

JSTARs are not designed to track ships, although I suppose they have some capability in that area. The vehicle of choice would be the P-3 Orion, with the Texas Instruments, now Raytheon, APS-137 surface search (and ISAR) radar. We've got a lot more of those in any event. Many friendly nations, including Australia, Canada, Norway, Spain, Portugal, Chile, South Korea, Greece, Argentina , Japan and the Netherlands, have various versions of the P-3. Pakistan has some too. See http://home.wxs.nl/~p3orion/index.html The only "problem" with the P-3s is that their primary anti-ship weapon, the Harpoon, might be a bit on the puny side for a really big ship, like a 400 footer.

182 posted on 02/19/2003 12:00:11 AM PST by El Gato
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
re post No. 178...


LINKS OF INTEREST - PAKISTAN, CHINA, NORTH KOREA:

THE WEEKLY STANDARD.com: "AL-QAEDA'S NIGHTMARE SCENARIO EMERGES" by Mansoor Ijaz (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "We also know from published--and so far undisputed--reports that from February 2000 until July 2002, eight senior Pakistani nuclear scientists left their country without obtaining the required No Objection Certificates needed for travel abroad. They remain unaccounted for and at least some are reported to have traveled to Australia and Indonesia. In a worst case scenario, al Qaeda could construct a crude but effective nuclear device in weeks, if not a month, from Hezbollah C4, North Korean plutonium, and a little nuclear expertise from disaffected Pakistani scientists. Making a "dirty" radiological dispersion device with Strontium or Cesium also remains an option, although it is clear that al Qaeda has the intent and resources to go for weapons that cause maximum collateral damage.") (February 19, 2003)

SAAG.org - SOUTH ASIA ANALYSIS GROUP Paper No.610 by Dr. Rajesh Kumar Misra: "NUCLEAR SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY OF PAKISTAN: CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER TO NONPROLIFERATION" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Recent revelations of support to North Korean uranium enrichment programme and the connections of some of the scientists with Al Qaeda appear to confirm that Pakistan is developing into one of the most dangerous proliferant countries in the world. The nuclear scientific community plays a pivotal role in it. Right at the top, Dr. A.Q. Khan to several other scientists who were involved in the nuclear development programme of Pakistan, remain suspects. More than a dozen scientists in Pakistan can be called as  nuclear proliferation agents. Including a list of suspected scientists in Pakistan, this paper is an effort to draw attention of the international community on the existing alleged rogue nuclear scientific community in Pakistan and their potential involvement in proliferation of weapons of mass destruction worldwide at different state and non-state levels.") February 7, 2003

GUARDIAN.co.uk: "ITALIAN JUDGE FREES PAKISTANIS HELD IN TERRORISM RAID" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "An Italian judge ordered the release of 28 Pakistani men yesterday after they spent two weeks in a Naples prison, admitting there was not enough evidence that any of them were involved in an al-Qaida plot.") (February 13, 2003)

FOX NEWS.com (AP): "28 PAKISTANI AL QAEDA SUSPECTS ARRESTED IN ITALY" (ARTICLE SNIPPETS: "During the raid of an apartment in the city center, they uncovered about 2 pounds of dynamite, 165 feet of explosive fuse and various types of detonators, the police statement said.The official said police also uncovered maps of Naples with "sensitive" targets circled. He refused to elaborate. Italian news reports citing unidentified sources said the areas marked included the U.S. Consulate in Naples and NATO bases in nearby Bagnoli and Capodichino."... "In addition, religious texts in Pakistan's Urdu language and other documents were also found in the apartment, as well as photos of "martyrs of the Jihad," the police statement said.") (January 31, 2003)

***FOX NEWS.com (AP): "NORTH KOREA THREATENS TO ABANDON KOREAN WAR AMISTICE" (February 18, 2003)

***An Informative Discussion on FREEREPUBLIC.com regarding a NEWS.SBS.CO.KR News Article. TOPIC:"REMOVAL OF RODS @ NUKE PLANT TOUCHES OFF INCREASE OF US FORCES NEAR KOREAN PENINSULA (Developing)" (February 3, 2003) *UPDATED February 13, 2003

YAHOO! News - Articles - Topic: "NORTH KOREA"

NORTH KOREA DAILY News Online

GLOBAL SECURITY.org: YONGBYON [NYONGBYON]

IAEA.org - INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY: Press Releases

***FOX NEWS.com: "CIA: NORTH KOREA NUCLEAR MISSILE COULD REACH U.S." (February 12, 2003)

***TAIPEI TIMES.com: "CHEN SHUI-BIAN WARNS NAVY OF CHINESE THREAT" by Lin Chich-Yu (February 17, 2003)

***INSIGHT On The News online: "MISSILE TECHNOLOGY SENT TO CHINA" by Scott L. Wheeler (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Indianapolis-based Magnequench Inc. has not yet publically announced the closing of its Valparaiso, Ind., factory, but Insight has confirmed that the company will shut down this year and relocate at least some of its high-tech machine tools to Tianjin, China. Word of the shutdown comes as the company is producing critical parts for the U.S. Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) project, more widely known as smart bombs, raising heavy security issues related to the transfer of military technology to the PRC.") (020503)

CYBERCRIME.gov: "Pair from Cupertino and San Jose, California, Indicted for Economic Espionage and Theft of Trade Secrets From Silicon Valley Companies" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The United States Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of California announced that two people were indicted today for economic espionage, possession of stolen trade secrets, transportation of stolen property, and conspiracy. The charges stem from a conspiracy allegedly carried out by the defendants to take trade secrets stolen from four Silicon Valley companies to the People’s Republic of China (PRC). Fei Ye, a/k/a Ye Fei, age 36 of Cupertino, California, and Ming Zhong, a/k/a Zhong Ming, a/k/a Andy Zhong, age 35 of San Jose, California, were indicted by a federal grand jury on a total of 10 counts, including one count of conspiracy in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 371, 1831(a)(5) and 1832(a)(5), two counts of economic espionage in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1831(a)(3), five counts of possession of stolen trade secrets in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1832(a)(3), and two counts of foreign transportation of stolen property in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2314. Fei Ye is a citizen of the United States; Ming Zhong is a permanent resident. Both defendants are originally from China. The indictment does not charge that the Chinese government was a conspirator. According to the indictment, it is alleged that Fei Ye and Ming Zhong conspired to commit the offenses of economic espionage, possession of stolen trade secrets, and foreign transportation of stolen property. The trade secrets were allegedly stolen from four companies: Transmeta Corporation (Transmeta); Sun Microsystems, Inc. (Sun); NEC Electronics Corporation (NEC); and Trident Microsystems, Inc. (Trident), all high-tech companies in Silicon Valley. Both defendants are former employees of Transmeta and Trident. Fei Ye also worked at Sun and NEC. Some of the stolen trade secrets were seized from the defendants at the San Francisco International Airport (SFO) while they were attempting to fly to China. Other trade secrets were seized from the defendants’ residences and Ming Zhong’s Transmeta office in the County of Santa Clara.")(December 4, 2002)


OPINION: Osama Bin Laden is deader than a door nail. FACT: Osama Bin Laden's spirit of hate lives on.

183 posted on 02/19/2003 1:05:27 AM PST by Cindy
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To: piasa
re post no. 138: "OCTOBER 31, 2002 : (CRAOTIA INVESTIGATION OF THE SHIP 'BOKA STAR' UNCOVERS EXPLOSIVES) CROATIAN authorities, aided by investigators from Interpol, are continuing to examine the Boka Star, detained in the port of Rijeka under suspicion of transporting an illicit military cargo for Iraq. Croatia's interior ministry said on Tuesday it was trying to identify the explosives, earlier described as "multipurpose", which were seized during the search of 240 tonnes of cargo on board the Tonga-flagged ship. The explosive materials found on the vessel have been removed and stored in a secure warehouse outside Rijeka. - http://www.bicc.de/milex/homepg/tracker.php3?action=show&input%5Bid%5D=4101, reported in Bonn International Center for Conversion, November 5, 2002"

DIE TAGESZEITUNG (English Translation): "EFFECTIVE SUPPORT FOR SADDAM HUSSEIN" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "In a report the government of the Bosnian Serb republic confirms weapon supplies to the Iraq

SPLIT taz Now it is confirmed: The Serbian-Bosnian company Orao supplied weapon parts for air defense systems since 1997 weapons and to the Iraq. From on weekend submitted 1,614 sides the strong report of the president of the Bosnian Serb republic, Dragan Cavic, it follows clearly that the company broke the UN weapons embargo against the Iraq.

The whole thing flew up, after on 12 October yearly passed had scanned international SFOR troops the Orao factory in the eastBosnian city Bjeljina. At that time among other things spare parts for combat aircraft of Soviet design were found of the type MiG-21. The investigators more still made references, which suggested stutzig activities of the company regarding air defense rockets. When on 22 October Croatian authorities the ship "Boka star", which had run out next to the montenegrinischen port bar and into Croatian territorial waters turned out, stopped and examined, was the proof furnished.

On the ship, which belongs to a montenegrinischen businessman and drove under the flag of the Tonga islands, over 200 tons explosives were guaranteed. Among them was a material for the drive of Scud rockets. The Yugoslav captain and its first officer were arrested and accused." -"taz No. 6947 of 7.1.2003, page 10, 103 lines (TA-e.g.-arranged), ERICH RATHFELDER"

http://216.239.37.120/translate_c?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.taz.de/pt/2003/01/07/a0095.nf/text.ges,1&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522Boka%2BStar%2522%26start%3D90%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN

GOOGLE Search Term: "Boka Star"
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Boka+Star%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0

184 posted on 02/19/2003 1:20:21 AM PST by Cindy
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To: Cindy
Thanks!
185 posted on 02/19/2003 1:28:14 AM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: Cindy
NOVEMBER 2002 : (MARITIME SECURITY : AL QAEDA : AL-NASHIRI CAPTURED) U.S. efforts to track al Qaeda's activities at sea received a boost last month with the capture of Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, an alleged mastermind of al Qaeda's nautical strategy. Officials told the (Washington Post) that he was cooperating with U.S. interrogators. - "U.S. said to track ships believed linked to al Qaeda," Tuesday, December 31, 2002
186 posted on 02/19/2003 1:38:52 AM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: Mitchell
Seems to be an earlier posted article
about the same subject
I pinged you about.
187 posted on 02/19/2003 2:11:32 AM PST by Allan
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To: Cindy; Travis McGee
Upodated info on a guy we'd like to see dead, but who mayt yet manage to get an ACLU lawyer instead:

NOVEMBER 2002 : (MARITIME SECURITY : AL QAEDA : CAPTURE OF TERRORIST AL-NASHIRI aka AL-HARAZI aka AL-MAKKI) U.S. efforts to track al Qaeda's activities at sea received a boost last month with the capture of Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, an alleged mastermind of al Qaeda's nautical strategy. Officials told the (Washington Post) that he was cooperating with U.S. interrogators. - "U.S. said to track ships believed linked to al Qaeda," Tuesday, December 31, 2002 *
Al-Nashiri, a suspected mastermind of the USS Cole bombing in October 2000, was captured in Yemen...U.S. officials are most interested in what al-Nashiri knows about attacks still to come, but also plan to question him on the Cole bombing which 17 U.S. sailors. A conviction in that case could mean a death sentence. ...CBS News Correspondent David Martin reports that al-Nashiri and Osama bin Laden first met in the 1980s when they both went to Afghanistan to aid in the Muslim holy war against the Soviet army. After the Soviets withdrew, al-Nashiri stayed with bin Laden and, according to U.S. officials, trained the al Qaeda operatives responsible for the 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa, which killed 250 people, including 12 Americans. "He has a reputation as a ruthless operator," one U.S. official said. "He is a very committed follower of Osama bin Laden." One of the suicide bombers in the attack on the Nairobi embassy, known only as Azzam, is believed to have been his cousin. Al-Nashiri is said to be Saudi and in his 30s. He has also traveled under a number of other names, including Umar Mohammed al-Harazi and Abu Bilal al-Makki. U.S. officials believe he was in Ghazni, Afghanistan, around the time the American military campaign began there in October 2001. He is thought to have moved to Pakistan when the Taliban fell, and then on to Yemen. In the Cole attack, U.S. officials have said al-Nashiri gave telephone orders to the bombers from the United Arab Emirates. He then fled to Afghanistan. In addition to the Cole attack, officials say he has been involved with a number of plots targeting the U.S. Navy in the past three years. He is thought to be behind a nearly identical attempt to bomb another destroyer, the USS The Sullivans, nine months before the Cole attack, at Aden. That attack failed when the suicide boat, overloaded with explosives, sank. Most recently, he has been tied to a failed al Qaeda plot to bomb U.S. and British warships crossing the Strait of Gibraltar, U.S. officials have said. In June, three Saudis were arrested in Morocco in connection with that plot. He is also suspected of being behind plans to bomb the 5th Fleet Headquarters in Bahrain, a plot revealed in January by another top al Qaeda operative captured by Pakistan after fleeing Afghanistan. The 5th Fleet has responsibility for the Persian Gulf and provides ships for the operations of U.S. Central Command, which is running the war effort in Afghanistan. It also supports the enforcement of the no-fly zone over southern Iraq, the U.N. economic embargo against Iraq and the monitoring of sea traffic from the Arabian Sea to the Gulf of Oman and the Persian Gulf.
U.S. intelligence also is investigating whether al-Nashiri was behind the Oct. 6 suicide boat bombing of a French oil tanker off the coast of Yemen, officials said. One crewman was killed. - "Suspected Qaeda Chief Cooperating, " CBS NEWS, WASHINGTON, Nov. 22, 2002 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/17/attack/main529656.shtml.

188 posted on 02/19/2003 2:44:19 AM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: CyberAnt
It was a joke...
189 posted on 02/19/2003 2:51:31 AM PST by null and void
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To: piasa
re post No. 188...


Speaking of Yemen...

stepping back in time...BBC NEWS: "INQUIRY LAUNCHED INTO YEMIN BLAST" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The owners of the tanker, Euronav, say they believe their vessel was deliberately rammed by a smaller boat. "In my opinion, this was a terrorist attack," Euronav director Jacques Moizan said. "The crew saw a high-speed vessel approaching on the starboard side. "An explosion followed with fire." All but one of the eight French and 17 Bulgarian crew members have been accounted for and many of them have been taken to hospital.") (100702)

stepping back in time: OCTOBER 12, 2000: ATTACK ON THE USS COLE

stepping back in time...GULF NEWS.com: "SONS OF YEMENI SPEAKER ARRESTED" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The press office of Yemeni Parliament Speaker, Sheikh Abdullah bin Hussein Al Ahmer, has confirmed that two of his sons are in custody for the shoot-out which took place near the British Embassy last Sunday. "Sheikh Abdullah regrets for what was circulated by media about the incident. Fallasies, exaggerations and lies have been circulated by some sick people," said a press release issued by the office.") (100302)

stepping back in time...FOX NEWS.com: (AP): "YEMENI STUDENT SUSPECTED OF AIDING HIJACKERS SENTENCED TO SIX MONTHS" (ARTICE NOTE: The Yemeni student is identified as Mohdar Abdullah, age 24, a former San Diego State University student. ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Abdullah, 24, acknowledged that he lied when he told an immigration officer that he entered the United States on Dec. 7, 1998, at New York on an Italian passport. In truth, he entered three days later from Canada on a Yemeni passport. The sentencing did not address the explosive allegations made in court documents that investigators suspect Abdullah helped three Sept. 11 hijackers who lived in San Diego in 2000.") (100202)

190 posted on 02/19/2003 3:40:29 AM PST by Cindy
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To: piasa
re post No. 188: "NOVEMBER 2002 : (MARITIME SECURITY : AL QAEDA : CAPTURE OF TERRORIST AL-NASHIRI aka AL-HARAZI aka AL-MAKKI) U.S. efforts to track al Qaeda's activities at sea received a boost last month with the capture of Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, an alleged mastermind of al Qaeda's nautical strategy. Officials told the (Washington Post) that he was cooperating with U.S. interrogators. - "U.S. said to track ships believed linked to al Qaeda," Tuesday, December 31, 2002 *
Al-Nashiri, a suspected mastermind of the USS Cole bombing in October 2000, was captured in Yemen..."


GOOGLE Search Term: "AL-MASHIRI"
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22al-Nashiri%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0

GOOGLE Search Term: "AL-HARAZI"
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22AL-HARAZI%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0

GOOGLE Search Term: "AL-MAKKI"
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22AL-MAKKI%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0
191 posted on 02/19/2003 3:53:35 AM PST by Cindy
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To: knak
Smoking gun?
192 posted on 02/19/2003 6:17:10 AM PST by b4its2late (FORGIVE and FORGET (but keep a list of names.....))
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To: Travis McGee; piasa
There is one possibility I just thought of, though I don't know enough about ships to know if it's really possible.

I remember reading that the Iranians had purchased a couple of subs that were supposed to be state-of-the-art. I wonder if the configuation of these surface ships is such that they would hide any signal from Iranian subs that were hiding beneath them?

193 posted on 02/19/2003 6:25:15 AM PST by Lion's Cub
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To: guitfiddlist
I would bet my next paycheck that there is at least one fast attack sub closeby to these vessels.
194 posted on 02/19/2003 6:33:23 AM PST by tom paine 2
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To: knak
If they were carrying chemical and biological weapons, or fissile nuclear material, and
they were to be sunk at sea, the environmental damage could be catastrophic.


(Warning: naive, amateur musings alert!)

At first blush, I contemplated a Tom Clancy end to this situation: three small nuclear
weapons set off to destroy the ships and sterilize the surrounding area of the ocean.

But I think another route would be using multiple waves of those Fuel Air Explosive munitions
or some version of the thermobaric bombs.
Just keep dropping them (for hours if needed) until the ocean boils for a half-hour or so
around the burned-out (and hopefully not sunk) hulks of the three ships.

I'm sure the enviros would go nuts and the anti-freedom/anti-Dubya folks would say
"look, you still didn't find any weapons of mass destruction!"...
but that may be a low price to pay for a sterile incineration of tons of
anthrax and lots of other biological/chemical weapons.

Of course, I think the compassionate thing to do would be to drop some pamphlets
(in Arabic or other needed language) saying: "You don't have time to scuttle your ship
and get in a lifeboat. You only have time to get into the lifeboat and away from your
ship as it will be consumed in flames in less than five minutes.
Remember we always delivered on our promises in the Gulf War. Stay on the ship if you
wish to be melted.
Sincerely,
The United States Navy"
195 posted on 02/19/2003 6:46:18 AM PST by VOA
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To: mountaineer
More likely Nigeria, Ethiopia, etc.
196 posted on 02/19/2003 6:48:58 AM PST by cinFLA
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To: knak
bump
197 posted on 02/19/2003 6:49:02 AM PST by GOPJ
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To: knak
bump
198 posted on 02/19/2003 6:49:16 AM PST by GOPJ
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To: knak
If this is Saddam's new verion of "Carnival Cruise Lines" then I think we should cristen his ships with cruise missiles.
199 posted on 02/19/2003 7:54:04 AM PST by NorseWood
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To: Travis McGee
I don't buy it. It doesn't add up.

You are correct it does not add up. A team could easily take control of any one of these vessels. There is no reason to not do it since they are violating maritime law. Further, just where are they going to get the merchant seamen to willingly lay down their lives for Ol' Saddam?

200 posted on 02/19/2003 7:55:10 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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