Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Salmon killed by illegal drug activities?
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | February 22, 2003 | Sarah Foster

Posted on 02/22/2003 5:27:25 AM PST by Movemout

WATER WARS
Salmon killed by illegal drug activities?
Journalist's findings challenge official explanation of cause of death


Posted: February 22, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Sarah Foster
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

Recently uncovered evidence strongly suggests that the deaths of 33,000 salmon and steelhead trout during last September's fall run within 20 miles of the mouth of the Klamath River in northern California was not due simply to a lack of sufficient water, as claimed by a California state agency and environmentalists, but may have been caused by contamination from illicit drug manufacturing operations near rivers in the area.

A second overlooked factor appears to have been the temperature of the Klamath River, which was too warm for salmon. This, in turn, was caused by an unpublicized diversion of water from the much colder Trinity River that flows north to meet the Klamath at the small town of Weitchpec on state highway 96.

In a report in Monday's Siskiyou Daily News, Barry Clausen, an investigator and author, challenged the official view and urged that toxicity and diversion of water from the Trinity be seriously investigated as likely contributory factors to the mysterious die-off.

According to the Humboldt County Sheriff's Department and Larry Hand of the California Conservation Corps, a CCC crew last summer discovered several large glass flasks used for cooking methamphetamine on Ohpah Creek, a tributary of the Klamath River, just 21 miles from the mouth of the river. The flasks had been left on land owned by the Simpson Timber Company above the Ohpah Creek Ranch and were part of a "meth dump" – a place where unused residue and cooking utensils from meth labs are discarded.

"Could the illegal marijuana and meth producers dumping chemicals, poisons and waste above the fish kill into creeks, watersheds and river be accountable for the dead fish or at least have magnified the impact of the gill rot?" Clausen asks.

His question calls into dispute the official position of the California Department of Fish and Game detailed in a 63-page study released in early January. As WorldNetDaily reported, the department concluded that "too many migrating fish crowded into a depleted river, allowing the spread of two naturally occurring parasites that destroy the gills of fish. The salmon and steelhead subsequently died of asphyxiation."

The DFG report – which is a preliminary analysis – in effect casts the blame for the fish kill on the Bush administration's decision to release "too much water for farmers" during the spring without leaving "enough flow for the fish."

The study also warned that unless the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation increases flows from the Klamath Lake in coming years, "there is a substantial risk for future fish kills on the Klamath River." The bureau is the federal agency responsible for overseeing water diversions from the Klamath.

According to the DFG report, department biologists – after eliminating various factors that could have killed the fish, including drought, a late summer heat wave and a possible spill of toxics into the river – found the only difference in the Klamath River in the fall of 2002 compared to other dry years was that the number of salmon returning from their annual spawning run was high and the amount of water in the river was low.

They determined that "no substances were found at concentrations toxic to fish and therefore were not a factor in the 2002 fish kill."

Clausen quotes the report: "Soon after the fish kill manifested itself, claims were made that toxic substances may have been the cause. The North Coast Regional Water Quality Control Board Staff collected samples from five locations on Sept. 26, 2002, to determine if any toxic substances were present at concentrations toxic to fish. These scans test for a broad spectrum of organic compounds including organochlorine pesticides, PCBs, and Glyphosate."

The date of the testing poses serious problems for defenders of the DFG report.

"The samples were taken seven days after the discovery of the dead fish," Clausen points out. "The question arises – would concentrations of chemicals still be present in the alleged test areas after this length of time?"

This also was an issue that struck David Vogel, a biologist who worked for 14 years with fishery research divisions with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service before starting his own environmental consulting firm, Natural Resources Scientists, in 1990.

"They [Fish and Game] state that the fish kill began Sept. 19, and yet they say that no [water] analysis was done of any potential toxic substances until Sept. 26 – seven days later," exclaimed Vogel when interviewed by WorldNetDaily. "So they conclude that toxic substances could not have caused the fish kill, when in reality there's no way in the world you could make that conclusion when the samples were taken a full week later after the fish kill was underway. I was astounded at that."

According to Clausen, who based his conclusions on interviews with numerous law-enforcement officials, toxic substances could have been introduced either from meth production or marijuana growing, the latter being a prominent "cottage industry" in the area. Marijuana growing in itself does not produce pollutants, but does pose a hazard to fish as growers use "rat poison, insecticides and pesticides to kill unwanted animals that penetrate their operations," and these work their way into the groundwater and, ultimately, the river.

Meth labs suspect

But the major suspect for toxicity would be the production of methamphetamine, which uses a variety of chemicals obtained from various sources (such as car batteries) and varying degrees of toxicity.

A few of these, listed by Clausen, include toluene, ether, drain cleaner (sulphuric acid), car batteries (lithium), Red Devil lye (sodium hydroxide), hydrochloric acid, white gas, laundry soap and diesel fuel.

"The chemicals are then cooked in such items as Pyrex dishes or large glass flasks like the ones found on Ohpah Creek," he explains. "Coffee filters are then used to filter the items cooked."

Clausen reports that law-enforcement officials he spoke with emphasized that "the chemicals end up in creeks and watersheds," and ultimately in rivers such as the Klamath.

Several members of the DFG told him they were familiar with the chemicals listed and their potential for harm: "Of course they could kill fish. The fish have gill rot, but there is the possibility they may have survived. If there was any of these chemicals in the river at any level, it would have stressed the fish and yes, it could have been a factor in the kill."

Two persons Clausen interviewed claimed there are five meth labs between Weitchpec and the mouth of the Klamath, one being known to both law enforcement and local residents as the "Crystal Palace." When asked, one Siskiyou County law-enforcement official told him, "It the truth were known, there are probably 50 labs."

Temperature factor

The other factor Clausen checked was the temperature of the Klamath River, which Vogel has insisted was too warm for salmon migrating upstream.

As Vogel explained to WorldNetDaily, "Notably absent from the [Fish and Game] report is an analysis of the water temperatures that were present in the Upper Klamath River downstream of Irongate Dam during the time of the fish kill."

He added that the information and relevant data was available, which he had studied, and it was clearly apparent that water temperatures in the main stem of the Upper Klamath were within "lethal range" for salmon.

"They were too high," he emphasized. "So Fish and Game attempts to build an argument for increased flow below Irongate Dam during early September. But the problem with that is that even if the flow had been increased, the water temperatures were unsuitably warm for salmon in the upper river. In other words there was no place for the fish to go."

Added Vogel, "It doesn’t take much increase in water temperature to have catastrophic effects on fish. Just a couple of degrees plus or minus can make it or break it for fish."

Warm water temperatures can also foster an increase in the number of death-causing parasites. "A major contributing factor in the fish kill would be the warmer temperature of the water, which Fish and Game did not take into account," said Vogel.

The question, then, is what caused this higher temperature? Basically, there was not enough cold water flowing into the Klamath to cool it off. Cold water would normally flow from the Trinity River, which is 15 degrees cooler than the Klamath. But Clausen discovered that as much as 90 percent of the Trinity's water is being diverted to the Sacramento River.

"This water would usually flow [north] into the Klamath at Weitchpec, but instead is being diverted and utilized in the Central Basin of California," he writes.

The diversion is a major concern to the Hoopa Tribe of Indians, through whose reservation the Trinity flows. Government officials had assured tribal members that the amount of water released from the Trinity Reservoir to the Sacramento would be only 50 percent.

Instead, the amount water being released from the Trinity Reservoir at the time of the fish kill was 73 percent, according to Tom Patton, a hydraulic engineer for the Bureau of Reclamation.

Many of the local Hoopa blame the die-off on this overlooked diversion of the Trinity to the Sacramento River, rather than on the diversion of the Klamath to farms of Klamath basin upstream.

Duane Sherman, who has served on the tribal council, monitors Native American fishing rights, the Trinity River diversion, water levels, water temperature and the fish kill.

"The Trinity is 15 degrees colder than the Klamath, and if the Trinity had been flowing as we were promised, the fish would not have died," Sherman told Clausen.

Asked if he blamed the upstream farmers and ranchers, he said, "No, but something different needs to be done – and soon."


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: enviralists; klamath; klamathbasincrisis; klamathlist; landgrab; salmonkill; wodlist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-82 next last
I believe this possibility was discussed on FR previously.
1 posted on 02/22/2003 5:27:25 AM PST by Movemout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
The Junk(ie)Scientists have another hole in their boat.
2 posted on 02/22/2003 5:30:26 AM PST by Movemout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Movemout
A fine example of yellow journalism by WND again. Joe Farah sees a bandwagon to jump on, and he's on it - pandering once again.
3 posted on 02/22/2003 6:06:44 AM PST by 11B3 (Post Vulcan Cannons At The Next "Peace" March. And USE THEM.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Movemout
But a lot of the liberal wackos I know, plus the Hollywood crowd, are users of illegal drugs, so that explains why they take the side they do in this war. They don't care about farmers, private property rights, or salmon. But they do care about drugs. Look at all the celebrities who are in and out of drug rehab. And look at all the hippies who show up at the anti-American rallies and protests.
4 posted on 02/22/2003 6:15:23 AM PST by buffyt ( Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism, Nazism and Communism, War Has Never Solved Anything. Kfir Alfi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 11B3
I don't understand your comment. The article was written by Sarah Foster and is based on some investigative work accomplished by Clausen. It has a least as much plausibility as the state sponsored studies which may have, once again, arrived at a desired conclusion in advance of the available facts. Additionally, there is a whole host of material available in the FR archives that prove enviro-weenies want badly to get rid of the farmers in the Klamath River area.

You may have a justfiable bone to pick with Farah but it has little to do with this article.

5 posted on 02/22/2003 6:15:45 AM PST by Movemout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: buffyt
Guess I missed something...
what chemicals are associated with growing pot ?
6 posted on 02/22/2003 6:18:18 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: buffyt
It's not just Hollywood. The whole Northwest region of our Nation is infested with liberal parasites promoting anti-American agendas of various flavors.
7 posted on 02/22/2003 6:20:36 AM PST by Movemout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks
"Guess I missed something... what chemicals are associated with growing pot ? "

There is one passing reference to Marijuana in the article. The bulk of the article concentrates on the numerous meth labs' byproducts. The only contribution by pot cultivators might be phosphate and nitrogen run off from application of fertilizers.

8 posted on 02/22/2003 6:24:59 AM PST by Movemout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Movemout
Bad editing or sloppy, uninformed reporting...
9 posted on 02/22/2003 6:37:27 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks
My question exactly.
10 posted on 02/22/2003 6:40:40 AM PST by dljordan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: marsh2; dixiechick2000; Helen; Mama_Bear; poet; Grampa Dave; doug from upland; WolfsView; ...
Klamath ping. I don't think it is wise to try and blame this on drug labs, though the drug labs can be a problem and one of the main reasons the Grange was involved with creating the Rural Crime Task Force.
11 posted on 02/22/2003 7:06:27 AM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: *Wod_list
Assuming the article is correct, this is simply more collateral damage in the War On (some) Drugs. Cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, cleaners and other chemicals are legal and produced by companies that don't have to hide their activity to stay in business.
12 posted on 02/22/2003 7:18:23 AM PST by coloradan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
It was probably one of the problems that contributed to the fish kill. Several fishing guides had commented about the strong aroma in the lower Klamath.

That area is out of control with illegal activities.
13 posted on 02/22/2003 7:23:48 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave
I still have a contact on the crime task force. He gave me a number to call. I haven't called it yet. I may throw another bone to the State Master and see what he does with it. That will be nothing since it will come from me. I may have to use channels to get the info to him.
14 posted on 02/22/2003 7:27:51 AM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave
Its a good thing drugs are illegal, otherwise this might have happened.
15 posted on 02/22/2003 7:28:00 AM PST by toothless
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: toothless
I understand that some drugs make peole toothless as well as brain and morality damaged!
16 posted on 02/22/2003 7:35:54 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Movemout; farmfriend
I believe this possibility was discussed on FR previously.

I think it was posted by Marsh2. She lives on the Klamath.

17 posted on 02/22/2003 7:36:25 AM PST by tubebender (?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave
From the California State Grange's Blue Prints for Rural America.

Address the growing crime problems in rural California

Although current statistics show a decline of criminal activity in the state, the rate of criminal activity in rural California continues to grow. Crimes against agriculture, violence against family members and manufacture of dangerous drugs are all issues of growing concern to our Grange members who live in the rural counties. In the heavily farmed counties, agricultural crime in the form of commodity theft , cattle theft, chemical theft metals, and farm equipment is much more common than regularly recognized. Violence against adults and children, the result of unemployment, alcohol abuse and drug abuse continues to plague rural California. The manufacture of drugs such as methamphetamine poisons the soil, and lays waste to otherwise useful land for years to come. In some cases property owners were never aware that remote sections of their land was being used for this purpose, but were held legally liable for the costly cleanup. Farm equipment is being stolen, and transported out of the state to be sold elsewhere around the continent. Commodities worth millions of dollars are regularly stolen and sold to "entrepreneurs", as are agricultural chemicals. Livestock of many forms, usually is distributed to the larger urban areas, leaving little for the needs of the rural law enforcement sector to staff special units that can bring cases to the court system for adjudication.

Action Plan:

1. We support the efforts of the United State Justice Department Grants Program that is aimed at the development of pilot programs, joining recognized non-profit organizations and the many local departments that individually provide services to victims of violent crimes.

2. We will support changes in Federal Block Grant programs that will target rural law enforcement agencies.

18 posted on 02/22/2003 7:41:15 AM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: tubebender; Movemout
What caused salmon deaths?
19 posted on 02/22/2003 7:43:50 AM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
BTTT!!!!!!!
20 posted on 02/22/2003 7:46:16 AM PST by E.G.C.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
I think that it was you that posted about these problems in isolated areas on big ranches and farms in the California Valley. In these cases, illegals set up these drug manufacturing plants, ran them and then left the pollution. Then the farmers and ranchers were held liable for the costs of the clean ups.
21 posted on 02/22/2003 7:47:06 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: *Klamath_List; *Enviralists
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list
22 posted on 02/22/2003 7:48:09 AM PST by Free the USA (Stooge for the Rich)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: RonDog; Sir Francis Dashwood; SierraWasp; sauropod; Scholastic; shotabug; Smogger; Snow Bunny; ...
article re: Clausen investigation
23 posted on 02/22/2003 7:50:54 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: countrydummy; Free the USA; Carry_Okie; backhoe; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Libertarianize the GOP; ...
Clausen investigation ping
24 posted on 02/22/2003 7:54:24 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 11B3
A fine example of yellow journalism by WND again

This article was written by Sarah Foster. She does a lot of research before she writes. I've met this woman and worked with her on the Sawgrass Rebellion. I would not put her into your catagory.

25 posted on 02/22/2003 7:55:52 AM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave
The Mods have asked that people refrain from personal attacks.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/842334/posts
26 posted on 02/22/2003 7:59:59 AM PST by toothless
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend; Grampa Dave; marsh2; forester; Phil V.; steelie; Carry_Okie
I second your view on Sarah Foster!!!

What have we here? A little attempt to "dust-up" the growing FR war on the WOD? If that's what I'm seeing here, it's already getting growingly tiresome.

As everyone knows, this whole unbecoming Klamath struggle has been (and is being) instigated by the envious and competing so-called dubious "hemp growers" to effectively steal the water and land of the legitimate food and fibre ag industry in the Klamath Region!

Now I think I smell the dubious aroma of support for the dubious desires of the dubious drug sub-culture to use the Enviralist fanatics to throw some traditional American Farmers off their land... using phony fish fertilizer to do it!!!

Tell me when it's time for a "stinging rebuke" by the Waspman, ok?

27 posted on 02/22/2003 8:16:19 AM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: *Wod_list
ping
28 posted on 02/22/2003 8:20:50 AM PST by toothless
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: toothless
"Its a good thing drugs are illegal, otherwise this might have happened."

Gee... looked more like an appropriate comment on an incoherent statement, to me. (IMO)

"Me thinks you doth protest too much."

29 posted on 02/22/2003 8:34:06 AM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: toothless
My comment was an observation about certain toothless individuals being addicted to certain drugs.

A young construction project manager years ago was in charge of repairs to the Natural gas pipe line running from Canada to Califonia.

His company and the client had a strict policy, that anyone who tested postive for drugs would not be hired and would be fired if tested positive.

He batted 1,000 in predicting which applicants would flunk the employment drug screening tests. Finally his assistant PM and the client wanted to know how he could predict this with such accuracy.

His reply was the lack of teeth and the inability to follow a simple discussion and comment correctly on the discussion was a warning sign of a certain addiction with the applicants. Not the people, one would want to work on or around a natural gas pipeline.
30 posted on 02/22/2003 8:35:01 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks
"what chemicals are associated with growing pot ?"

A highly toxic form of Bull Shift Tea! It's extracted from the whole "organic growing industry!!!"

It's been known to stir up turbidity in a whole generation of fuzzy thinking which is a least as dangerous to fish as it is to farmers growing viable and legal crops.

31 posted on 02/22/2003 8:41:32 AM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: toothless; Grampa Dave
"To: *Wod_list"

I JUST KNEW IT!!!

You just had to "Ping" all the tiresome warriors in the wearisome war on the War On Drugs (Wod)!!!

Ok, everyone interested in justice for the Klamath Farmers, here comes the blinding blizzard of B.S. from all the sympathizers with the Hemp Hippies and bitter Liberaltarians who want legalization... yada, yada, yada...

Just watch 'em come like flies to pack this thread with pucilaminous propaganda as to why the whole country should be free to become entirely subjected to the drug sub-culture. Here we go again FReeperland!!!

32 posted on 02/22/2003 8:54:40 AM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: SierraWasp
Speaking of rural cleansing by the Pro Hemp Watermelons of America in the Klamath region: (Andy Kerr, lobbying Washington D.C. as the Larch Company LLC for the ONRC is seeking a $840 million buyout of the farmers. Kerr and ONRC, however, have more than just an environmental interest in the Klamath Valley. As it turns out, ONRC and Andy Kerr are not just partners in enviromental activism. Kerr and the ONRC are active business partners with a large and impressive list of investors who are willing to fund them in order to kick-start the Industrial Hemp industry in the United States. Andy Kerr, former head of the Oregon Natural Resources Council, President of The Larch Company LLC, and Treasurer for the North American Industrial Hemp Council has invested a great deal in this idea of industrializing Hemp, and has been very active in the business development of Hemp as a viable and profitable crop in North America. Kerr and his business associates have an especially keen interest in the Pacific Northwest as a site for Hemp farming, and have they have gone so far as to conduct a study for such a purpose: link)
33 posted on 02/22/2003 9:01:33 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave
Thats funny, I have passed every drug test I have ever taken. And I still have all my teeth. Your personal attacks withstanding.
34 posted on 02/22/2003 9:26:20 AM PST by toothless
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave
Wooooooo Hooooooooo!!!

I see yer seein RED, already!!! (all yer linkage are belong to US!!!)

Tell me... Has he linked up with the insanely overpriced and highly and LIBERALLY politicized Organic Growers yet?

Boy-O-Boy!!! I can hardly wait for the legalization vowell movement to begin. At last look, they hadn't swarmed in yet. Probably gathering in the FReeper Post Office, gittin organized for their assault on this thread. Spose?

35 posted on 02/22/2003 9:39:19 AM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks
Just basic garden variety fertilizer. A good 19-17-10.
[not that I would know! LOL]

Did you know you are member #700 on FR and I am #1471. Does that make us old timers? When did you sign up. I lurked until 2-98, then I signed up. I have another screen name, but I don't use it often.
36 posted on 02/22/2003 10:16:52 AM PST by buffyt ( Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism, Nazism and Communism, War Has Never Solved Anything. Kfir Alfi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks
"Could the

illegal marijuana and meth producers

dumping chemicals, poisons and waste above the fish kill into creeks, watersheds and river be accountable for the dead fish or at least have magnified the impact of the gill rot?" Clausen asks. I was referring to this paragraph......
37 posted on 02/22/2003 10:19:03 AM PST by buffyt ( Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism, Nazism and Communism, War Has Never Solved Anything. Kfir Alfi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks
"Could the illegal marijuana and meth producers dumping chemicals, poisons and waste above the fish kill into creeks, watersheds and river be accountable for the dead fish or at least have magnified the impact of the gill rot?" Clausen asks.

I was referring to this paragraph......

38 posted on 02/22/2003 10:20:48 AM PST by buffyt ( Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism, Nazism and Communism, War Has Never Solved Anything. Kfir Alfi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
This is my response when this was posted earlier this week.

What caused salmon deaths?

Posted by bigfootbob to Grampa Dave
On News/Activism 02/18/2003 8:35 AM PST #28 of 31

"Plus the dope makers dumped their by products into the Klamath."

Don't bite on this story. It's propaganda. The good guys are winning the argument and they, the bad guys know by throwing the dastardly drug issue into the mix they can muddy up the argument.

For years and years and years salmonoids returned to rivers in Washington and had to swim through bodies of water so polluted you could almost walk on it.

The inland river system in America until recently was used as sewer and other industrial waste dumps, yet fish survived and prospered. I do not beleive for a minute, the clandestine drug dump is the culprit.





Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies
39 posted on 02/22/2003 10:23:17 AM PST by bigfootbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: bigfootbob
"The good guys are winning the argument and they, the bad guys know by throwing the dastardly drug issue into the mix they can muddy up the argument."

Alright... I never saw "the other thread," so tell me... Who are "the good guys," and why are they considered "good," and likewise... who are the "bad," and why are they "bad?"

One cannot decipher the players on FR anymore, without a "program," complete with biographies/histories!!! Without your clarification, your reply makes little sense to the rest of us. Thanks in advance.

40 posted on 02/22/2003 10:34:45 AM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
Be Ever Vigilant!

Be Well - Be Armed - Be Safe - Molon Labe!

Let's Roll!
41 posted on 02/22/2003 10:46:51 AM PST by blackie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: blackie
"Be Ever Vigilant!"

The waters just keep gittin murkier an murkier don't they?

42 posted on 02/22/2003 11:34:54 AM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: SierraWasp
"The waters just keep gittin murkier an murkier don't they?"

"Them's the breaks," as some would say. :)

43 posted on 02/22/2003 1:42:19 PM PST by blackie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: SierraWasp
Here ya go, sorry to be so obtuse, but it was crystal clear in my mind. This issue is a sore spot with me and I sometimes assume to much.

IMHO, the good guys are the land rights people who are the true conservationists. Bad guys are the socialists who try to restrict or deny private property.

It's obvious to me when I see articles like this who the good guys and bad guys are. Blaming clandestine drug lab run-off or dumping for this fish kill is the "bad guy's" attempt at ratcheting up the rhetoric by hitch hiking on the back of the meth scourge.

When this happened if I remember correctly from previously posted articles, it was dry, no rain. Without rain how can there be run-off? No part of the story makes sense to me, other than some fish died.
44 posted on 02/22/2003 3:44:23 PM PST by bigfootbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: bigfootbob
Without rain how can there be run-off?

I have not read this article in it's entirety yet but previous articles reported that the chemicals were dumped directly into the streams.

45 posted on 02/22/2003 4:04:55 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
"I have not read this article in it's entirety yet but previous articles reported that the chemicals were dumped directly into the streams."

I've never made meth, but from what I've read to make meth it takes anhydrous ammonia, (a gas), and ether. Unless they off load a semi-tanker of ether into the river, there just isn't enough volume to do the damage.

As I said, this is an emotional ploy, in the fashion of Greenpeace showing clearcuts or seal clubbing to raise donations. Only they don't want donations they want the people out. Rural cleansing, IMHO.

46 posted on 02/22/2003 4:22:12 PM PST by bigfootbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: bigfootbob
I agree that this chemical poisoning is not the real reason behind the fish kill. I believe Carry_Okie is correct in his assesment.
47 posted on 02/22/2003 4:30:02 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: bigfootbob
Actually, I see these articles as a great jumping off point for discussing rural and agricultural crime.
48 posted on 02/22/2003 4:48:26 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
I agree that this chemical poisoning is not the real reason behind the fish kill.

We may never know because the lab samples were taken a few days after the first die off were disposed of. It could have been the trigger for the majority kill. I need to get off my butt and make some local contacts for more on ths.

One thing that sounds strange to me is the release of water from Trinity Lake as the local news was the release was from Irongate on the Klamath. A man drowned on the Klamath near Orleans above the Trinity at the time of the release and it was speculated he was caught by sudden rise in the river.

49 posted on 02/22/2003 4:59:16 PM PST by tubebender (?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: bigfootbob; Grampa Dave; farmfriend
Ok. My suspicions run a little different than yours and since I'm not in possession of any facts, other than what is reported in papers, I could certainly be wrong.

One thing is for sure. The government folks who are being whipsawed by EnvironMental "Born Again Pagans" who are traditionally some of the biggest customers of the illicit M.J. & Meth industries, are behind all of this, along with the commercial Whitewater Rafting Industry.

These are relentless, remorseless, ruthless people that will stop a NOTHING to stir up turbidity and poison the waters to disrupt economic stability and progress! They seem to hate America's ways as much as the murderous muslims and will create divisive issues where none should exist to "divide & conquer!

I live among these types and in fact they are trying to destroy my community with their self-described "Culture Clash" tactics! I resent it deeply!!! This used to be a pretty good natured place, until the decade of decadence and Clinton, Clinton & Gore, Inc.

You are right about who are the bad/good guys, however, they are tweaking and torquing this Klamath issue to the point where they will have those who resent the WoD fighting those who support the WoD who are both Conservative and defenders of freedom, more or less, and certainly of Liberty for Individualism in our Society.

Now something was done to cause those fish to die like that and it was disgusting to see the State of CA Fish & Game politicize it immediately as a F/U by the Bush Administration who only sought to balance the needs of farmers with fishers and indians!!!

I too think Carry Okie has the cause/result figured out, but I think "the why" had to do with untimely releases due to commercial rafters and power generators needing the commercial value of high flows for "fun & profit!" That makes EnvironMental Extremists like Friends of the River, Inc., who front for the rapacious rafters... HIPOCRITES!!! (and in this case fishkillers for fun and profit IMO)

Finally, when I see the anti WoD people on FR come flocking to a thread like this, acting like "don't bring any heat down on this suspected activity," I get more than a little suspicious that they are a little too generous with the advancing drug culture and I don't like it, either.

There, now, I've not been cryptic or obtuse with you, either.

50 posted on 02/22/2003 5:04:38 PM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-82 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson