Scientists confident of SARS link {SARS spread by cockroaches!}

The Baltimore Sun ^ | 11 April 2003 | Julie Bell

[Vigilant1]

Evidence of new virus found in stool samples, journal report says

Scientists working to identify the cause of a mysterious respiratory illness that has killed 111 people worldwide are now almost certain that it is associated with a new kind of coronavirus, a family of viruses also responsible for the common cold. One of two groups of scientists whose findings were published online yesterday in separate New England Journal of Medicine articles also said they had found genetic evidence of the virus in some victims' stool samples.

The finding lends support to a previously advanced theory that the virus might spread via cockroaches that have had contact with sewage, said Dr. Peter B. Jahrling, a U.S. Army virologist whose Fort Detrick laboratory is working to find drugs that might be effective against the infection.

[Vigilant1]

If SARS is spread by cockroaches, as this article suggests, efforts to contain its spread, especially in urban areas, are doomed to failure.

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[woofie]

Cockroches are the master race

[Dog Gone]

We must educate people to quit licking cockroach trails.

[LaineyDee]

Hmmmmmm. Chinese cockroaches that escaped from a bio-warfare lab?

[DBrow]

There are pesticides effective in controlling cockroaches. We could bring back DDT and Chlordane for a few years, to contain infection.

We used to use DDT to control mosquitoes in malaria areas- saving millions. With the ban, malaria deaths are up and are still rising. Now we have another insect spread killer, apparently.

Will the fear of SARS override the environmentalist's decrees?

(Hint- how many times did Gore speak of the need to control global population?)

[Nita Nupress]

We must educate people to quit licking cockroach trails.

LOL! Oh, yuck.

But seriously, I did a search today on the issue of "fecal spray" from public toilets. It was disgusting. Trust me: Save the flushing for last and then run like hell.

[ffusco]

Arachnids!
We gotta glass Klendathu.

[old school]

Does that include Palmetto Bugs?

[Nita Nupress]

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f02/web2/stan.html

Think before you flush or brush

Sarah Tan

One of my friends from high school has made a habit of putting toilet seat lids down before she flushes. She started doing this about four years ago when she heard that when toilets are flushed, water droplets are expelled from the toilet bowl into the air, and when they land, other areas of the bathroom get "contaminated" by toilet water. That always amused me, but when I went over to her house, I humored her and followed this personal rule of hers. However, I didn't know—and chances are, she didn't know—just how justified she was in worrying about in what is known as the "aerosol effect" in toilets. My discovery that there is actually a technical term for this phenomenon was the first indication that there might be something scientifically legitimate to it. It seems to have first been brought to light by University of Arizona environmental microbiologist Charles Gerba when he published a scientific article in 1975 describing bacterial and viral aerosols due to toilet flushing (2). He conducted tests by placing pieces of gauze in different locations around the bathroom and measuring the bacterial and viral levels on them after a toilet flush, and his results are more than just a little disturbing.

First is the confirmation of the existence of the aerosol effect, even though it is largely unrecognized. "Droplets are going all over the place—it's like the Fourth of July," said Gerba. "One way to see this is to put a dye in the toilet, flush it, and then hold a piece of paper over it" (8). Indeed, Gerba's studies have shown that the water droplets in an invisible cloud travel six to eight feet out and up, so the areas of the bathroom not directly adjacent the toilet are still contaminated. Walls are obviously affected, and in public or communal bathrooms, the partitions between stalls are definitely coated in the spray mist from the toilet (1). Also, toilet paper will be cleanest when it is enclosed in a plastic or metal casing; after all, it's subject to the same droplets splattering on it, and its proximity to the toilet bowl makes contamination potential obvious. The ceiling is also still contaminated and is in fact a potential problem site because it is often overlooked in the cleaning process. Bacteria cling to ceilings and thrive in the humid environment there; if the situation is left untreated for months or years (as is often the case), odors remain in restrooms that seem to have been to be otherwise thoroughly cleaned (1). The bacterial mist has also been shown to stay in the air for at least two hours after each flush, thus maximizing its chance to float around and spread (2). "The greatest aerosol dispersal occurs not during the initial moments of the flush, but rather once most of the water has already left the bowl," according to Philip Tierno, MD, director of clinical microbiology and diagnostic immunology at New York University Medical Center and Mt. Sinai Medical Center. He therefore advises leaving immediately after flushing to not have the microscopic, airborne mist land on you (4). Worse still is the possibility of getting these airborne particles in the lungs by inhaling them, from which one could easily contract a cough or cold (6).

Obviously, the idea of toilet water being unknowingly distributed around the bathroom is less than appealing, but a study of this sort calls for looking in detail at precisely what microscopic organisms we're dealing with here, even if we don't really want to know. Put rather graphically, it can be summed up as the F3 force: Fecal Fountain Factor, compounded by the favorable temperatures for bacterial propagation in room temperature toilet water (3). Using a more scientific viewpoint, streptococcus, staphylococcus, E. coli and shigella bacteria, hepatitis A virus and the common cold virus are all common inhabitants of public bathrooms, but just because they're all over the place doesn't mean we necessarily get sick. After all, humans carry disease-causing organisms on our bodies all the times, but with healthy immune systems, the quantities in which these organisms exist is not enough to affect us, particularly with a good hand-washing after every restroom visit (4). This begs the question, however, of the number of people who actually wash their hands after going to the toilet, and more importantly, the number who wash their hands effectively. Simply rinsing one's hands under running water for a few seconds without soap, as some people do, is not effective at all. The way to ensure maximum standards of hygiene is to lather your palms, the back of your hands, in between fingers, and under fingernails for 20-30 seconds with soap and hot water; the friction will kill off the bathroom bacteria (6).

Toilet seats have actually been determined to be the least infected place in the bathroom because the environment is too dry to support a large bacterial population (7). In accordance with that theory, the underside of the seat has a higher than average microbial population. The place in a restroom with the highest concentration of microbial colonies in restrooms is, surprisingly, the sink, due in part to accumulations of water where these organisms breed freely after landing their aerial journey. While toilets are obviously not sterile environments, they tend to not be as bad as people think because they receive more attention and are cleaned more often. "If an alien came from space and studied the bacterial counts, he probably would conclude he should wash his hands in your toilet and crap in your sink," Gerba said (2). The alien would almost certainly not put your toothbrush in his mouth because, with its traditional, uncovered spot in the bathroom, it is one of the hotspots for fecal bacteria and germs spewed into the air by the aerosol effect (5). Understandably, the toothbrush with toilet water droplets on it is one of the most retold horror stories to emerge from Gerba's report.

There are also greater implications from the study of the aerosol effect than simple grossness factor. Most obviously, bathrooms should be cleaned even more meticulously than before, with emphasis not just on and around the toilet, but equal emphasis on all areas of the bathroom because all areas are equally affected by the spray. Using the right cleaners is important because all-purpose cleaning solutions are not necessarily antibacterial, whereas most cleaners made specifically for restrooms are referred to as disinfectants or germicidal cleaners (1). Given that the sink area teems with bacteria, one must now be more careful about washing hands properly after walking into the bathroom for any non toilet-related purposes like washing your face and brushing teeth. Using a hair dryer can potentially be problematic in regard to bacteria counts because the effect would be largely the same as hot-air hand dryers, which actually increase the bacteria on hands by 162 percent, as opposed to paper towels, which decrease them by 29 percent (7). If you're still not convinced that bacteria exist in any significant quantities on your hands, consider that kitchen sink actually harbors the most fecal matter in the average home, carried there by unwashed hands after using the bathroom (5). A tablespoon of bleach in a cup of warm water on the offending sink will fix the situation... for the day.

To limit the scope of the aerosol effect, the simplest method is to close the lid on the toilet every time before flushing (5). This would also provide the peace of mind that while you are washing your hands for 30 seconds, microscopic, bacteria-laden water droplet will not be descending upon your person. Unfortunately, most public toilets, including the ones in Bryn Mawr's dorms, don't even have lids for that option. Besides, given the large number of people who have used the toilet before you, it probably wouldn't make much difference. After washing your hands, use a paper towel to turn off the faucet and to open the door to leave, in order to avoid being recontaminated (4). And today, get a new toothbrush and always, always keep it in the medicine cabinet or some other enclosed place after use (2).

References

(1) Janitorial Resource Center - Dr Klean.

(2) A Straight Dope Classic - Cecil's been asked.

(3) Car Talk's mailbag - People are talking back.

(4) WebMD - What can you catch from restrooms?

(5) Harvard Gazette book review - Overkill, by Kimberly Thompson

(6) When in doubt, Ask Men - What can you catch from (men's) restrooms?

(7) Sean Blair: Writer. Researcher. Editor. - Killer offices.

(8) The Atlantic Monthly - Something in the water.

[Lijahsbubbe]

Thanks alot, I already carry hand sanitizers, don't touch railings, public phones (yuk) or use the air blowers in restrooms to dry my hands (they just blow the dirty air back on your hands).

So here's one for you to think about. Did you know that bowling balls carry the most fecal matter out of them all?

And the people at Taco Bell had the nerve to get mad when I told them to forget my order when I saw they didn't wear gloves!

[Risa]

>>We used to use DDT to control mosquitoes in malaria areas- saving millions. With the ban, malaria deaths are up and are still rising. Now we have another insect spread killer, apparently.<<

The article didn't seem to provide much evidence for the virus being spread by cockroaches --seems more like speculation.

Also, cockroaches can be managed by good integrated pest management techniques, while indiscriminately poisoning them just leads to new, resistant strains.

risa

[Dog Gone]

Simply rinsing one's hands under running water for a few seconds without soap, as some people do, is not effective at all. The way to ensure maximum standards of hygiene is to lather your palms, the back of your hands, in between fingers, and under fingernails for 20-30 seconds with soap and hot water; the friction will kill off the bathroom bacteria (6).

Okay, now that you've unnerved us with the Fecal Fountain Factor, how do you turn off the water without touching something that has been contaminated? Do we all need to become like Howard Hughes?

[CyberAnt]

Well ... I read here on FR about a group of Russian scientists who say SARS is a combination of Measels and Mumps. It was combined synthetically, and released accidentally; in China.

I don't know why - but I tend to believe this.

[Lijahsbubbe]

You use your elbow to hit the paper towel lever, use the paper towel to shut the faucet off if it's not automatic, and use a paper towel to open the door.

And wash your hands as soon as you get home!

[Diogenesis]

The data suggests that cockroaches are an alternative vector.

More info here (get the NEJM pdf file)

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

It's funny you should mention this because I once accidently broke a chemical glow stick and poured the liquid into the toilet. I flushed the toilet and when I was leaving I turned the light off.

Before I could get out of the bathroom I saw glowing specks everywhere in the bathroom from ceiling to floor. Thousands and thousands.

The first thing I thought of was how many times I flushed the toilet without putting the lid down and how my toothbrush is always lying on the sink. Revolting is the word. Now I always drop the lid and keep my toothbrush in the medicine cabinet.

[Lijahsbubbe]

P.S., if you think about it long enough, you will want to stay in just like Howard Hughes!

[samtheman]

All other reports link the spread to coughing. It is, after all, Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome.

This article might be cockroach do-do.

[lizma]

But seriously, I did a search today on the issue of "fecal spray" from public toilets

Why??

Dave Barry did an essay on this years ago. Haven't let my toothbrush stay on the counter since then. Yuck.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

And the people at Taco Bell had the nerve to get mad when I told them to forget my order when I saw they didn't wear gloves!

I called the health dept. when I saw them building my tacos with their bare hands. They came out the same day and put the smack down on them. I checked about a week later and they all had the gloves on. The first time the gal was taking money and making tacos with the same unwashed/no glove hands.

[Lijahsbubbe]

Hmmm. Didn't think of that one. Good for you!

[TheLion]

Bump

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

Cockroaches responsible for SARS spread. Hmmm. I knew somehow this would be linked to the Clintons.

[CyberAnt]

Here is the name of the thread where I read about SARS being a combination of measels and mumps:

Academician Kolesnikov: The Virus of Atypical Pneumonia Has Been Created Artifically (SARS)

[John Twenty 28]

Julie L. Gerberding, the CDC's director, said it was still too early to draw a final conclusion about the cause of severe acute respiratory syndrome.

"We are increasingly confident we are dealing with a new coronavirus," she said. But she added, "While we've seen evidence of the virus and we've seen evidence of pneumonia, we haven't seen them both in the same tissue."

This suggests the following to me:

1. They've looked at lung tissue affected by SARS pneumonia and haven't found an infection, bacterial or viral.

2. The lung damage may be caused by toxin created elsewhere in the body by the SARS infectious agent.

This (2) isn't unheard of in nature, but at least raises the possibility of genetic engineering as the source of the infectious agent.

[Dave278]

I know a guy who works in a narcotics task force Office. They do consent searches of people and luggage at the bus station in Lubbock Tx. One time, they had a crack dealer that had 5000.00 cash rolled up and stuffed in his butt. Most of the money was in 20's. They treated the money as a bio-hazard and had even more trouble getting it deposited in the bank. True story. Cash Money is very dirty. I hate to handle it.

[lizma]

I've read a few recent reports that say it might not be an airborne infection.

A lot of viruses can be spread by touching a contaminated surface and then touching your nose or mouth.

[Amelia]

Read this thread.

Read this whole thread.

More than you ever wanted to know about a whole bunch of things.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

The theory might be accurate, except for that American co-worker who came down with it yesterday...she got it from one of the workers.

[Dog Gone]

So, where do you stand (or sit) on this issue?

[Vigilant1]

In all cities everywhere, coackroach infestations are endemic. When cockroaches feed on people's food, they may infect it with SARS, then the infection is passed to humans. And think about infants loose in the average cockroach-infested low-income urban household, what they find on the floor & eat, and how they crawl using their hands, and then put their hands in their mouth. Once the cockroaches have infected one person, the spread of SARS in their family, their group of friends, their apartment building, their workplace, the shopping malls they visit, movie theaters, etc., is just about assured.

You guys can joke about this all you want, but I hope you're not too thick to see what a potent infection vector coackroaches will be for the SARS virus. There have been no SARS deaths in America yet because the most serious cases can be kept alive on respirators. What happens when the infection spreads and we run out of respirators? People start dying. And when the hospital staffs and doctors get infected, there is the potential for a collapse of our health care system.

GW has signed an EO granting martial-law-like powers to the fedgovthugs for quarantene purposes (I understand the necessity for this). When people panic and refuse to obey, those orders will have to be backed up by guns and riot-control methods. I don't think we really grasp what kind of disaster could be unfolding before us.

And thanks to Nita for the toliet aerosol cloud info. I keep a can of Lysol on my toliet; now a squirt goes into the bowl and the lid gets closed before every flush.

[deport]

Yep you are correct... more than I want to know about a lot of things.....

[Nita Nupress]

Thanks alot, I already carry hand sanitizers, don't touch railings, public phones (yuk) or use the air blowers in restrooms to dry my hands (they just blow the dirty air back on your hands).

You and me both.  I've gotten to where I carry the alcohol gel with me just about everywhere I go.
 

So here's one for you to think about. Did you know that bowling balls carry the most fecal matter out of them all?

I've never thought of bowling balls.  Wow. That makes a lot of sense.  Fecal material gets caught under fingernails rather easily.  I know that most hospitals have strict standards now about healthcare workers and fingernails... No false nails.  They must be no longer than finger-length.  Etc., etc.  There is a reason for that.

And the people at Taco Bell had the nerve to get mad when I told them to forget my order when I saw they didn't wear gloves!

I have to be really hungry to eat at a fast food place anymore.  After I saw the Burger King worker come out of the restroom stall after pooping and walking out without washing her hands, that just about did it for me. I just can't think of many things more disgusting than that!

[riri]

I have gotten to the point where my two year old leaves somewhere and he says "hands?" and puts out his hands waiting for the gel...talk about neurotic.

[Nita Nupress]

Why??

Because I have a teenage child who is always sick because he never washes his hands and has a constant habit of putting his hands up to his face. Research shows that people who do this have a higher rate of catching colds, but since when do teenagers listen to clinical research? Especially from their mothers.

I'm looking for something as gross as possible so maybe he'll listen. :-)

[Scenic Sounds]

Thanks for the ping.

I know now that I just can't go back to my old ways. You've changed my entire life, Amelia.

Thanks again. ;-)

[CJ Wolf]

THEY ARE WRONG

[T'wit]

> We must educate people to quit licking cockroach trails.

Now, by golly, there is more sage advice in few words than you get in an entire year of the New York Times.

[Nita Nupress]

Okay, now that you've unnerved us with the Fecal Fountain Factor, how do you turn off the water without touching something that has been contaminated? Do we all need to become like Howard Hughes?

No, but you need to be aware of what you're touching.  Turn off the water with a paper towel, or better yet, carry one of those tiny alcohol gel containers.  They make them pocket-size now.

And about opening the door to leave:  If you're really smart, you'll piddle around until some ignorant sap opens the door for you so you won't have to touch the handle.  Think of all the E.coli on that handle from ignorant saps who just wiped and then didn't wash.  Yuck.

[Nita Nupress]

Before I could get out of the bathroom I saw glowing specks everywhere in the bathroom from ceiling to floor. Thousands and thousands.

What a story!  That makes me want to experiment with it myself. LOL!

[Ronin]

Will the fear of SARS override the environmentalist's decrees?

You're kidding, right?

Hell, the environmentalists will be cheering for the cockroaches. As long as they, personally, don't get offed, the average environmentalist has no problems with any disease that kills humans.

Haven't you heard? We are the plague that threatens the "biosphere". We are the source of all that is evil in the universe.

The tree-huggers would rather we all died than resort to nasty chemicals like DDT.

[CJ Wolf]

Oh and I never wash my hands, I do bite my nails and stick my head close to the toliet to watch the crap swirl down. (looks jawdropingly cool to me and where does it go?) The toliet at work has amazingly quick suction and a nice backsplash, I sit when I flush there, just to get a bit of the biday action.

[Brian S]

Just to note: My dogs are vaccinated yearly for some type of coronavirus.

[Lijahsbubbe]

I still eat at fast food places, but sometimes when the grossness overwhelms me I pass.

If you think about it all, you will become a recluse. We haven't even touched on washing off the tops of canned goods, beaches, or swimming pools.

The human body is just gross. It reminds me of when Jerry Seinfeld talked about maintaining the body. Shaving, washing, clipping etc. Too funny. You have to laugh.

[Lijahsbubbe]

My children will not use public restrooms. When my daughter was a teenager she was a cashier and kept a bottle of hand sanitizer on the counter! (makes me proud)

[B-Chan]

A dear relative of mine is a "germie". She won't eat off restaurant silverware, brings her own sheets and pillows when staying anywhere but at home, is constantly washing her hands, and is obsessed with how filthy and septic the world is.

She gets sick more than anyone I know.

I apprecaite hygiene as much as anybody else (and more so than many), but there's a line between hygiene and obsessive-compulsive behavior. Yes, public bathrooms are filthy, yes my toothbrush is a teeming bacerial hive, yes I'm eating a mouthful of pubic hair and skin flakes every time I have a meal in a restaurant. -- and so what? I almost never get sick, and when I do its invariably because of stress, the kind of stress that comes from working too hard, exercising too little, or worrying about how many viruses and pubic hairs I ate today.

I'm a big fan of cleanlness, but this kind of paranoia about a world teeming with germs will kill you, or drive you crazy, or both. I observe the rules of good hygiene, but I'll be darned if I'm going to go around in a surgical mask spraying doorknobs with DDT for fear of having my precious bodily fluids contaminated. If there's some genetic residue soaked into the sheets in a hotel room in which I'm staying, it won't kill me. If the elevator button I just pushed has a thin film of feces from the too-busy-to-wash executive who used the elevator before me, somehow I'll survive. If the food I eat at the rstaurant is contaminated with semen and Ebola, I trust that my mighty immune system will rise to the task. God will preserve me. May His will be done. Now let's eat.

A life lived in fear isn't life at all. I know public santitation is terribly bad, but I refuse to worry myself about it. If I die from hep as a result, then I die -- but I'd rather die that way than spend a lifetime terrified of the germs, the Germs, THE GERMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A healthy interest in cleanliness is a good thing. An obsession with cleanliness is itself a pathological state. Let's not play that game.

[Dog Gone]

The toliet at work has amazingly quick suction and a nice backsplash, I sit when I flush there, just to get a bit of the bidet action.

LOL, been there, done that. I thought I was gonna drown.

[Nita Nupress]

I have gotten to the point where my two year old leaves somewhere and he says "hands?" and puts out his hands waiting for the gel...talk about neurotic.

LOL! No, it's not neurotic. Once you learn about this stuff, it just makes you be more cautious.