Anything into Oil(solution to dependence on foregn oil?)

DISCOVER Vol. 24 No. 5 ^ | May 2003 | Brad Lemley

[Gumption]

If I could hook up one of those converters to the back end of each of my dogs, I'd have enough oil around here to light up the whole city.

Or, if it's like my dog, would barely pay for the dog food.

[NewJerseyJoe]

>> the entire ME oil industry could become non essential

That's what I was thinking too. Ten more years, and they can go back to being goat herders. Also: No billions in oil revenues = no money to fund worlwide terrorism. Everybody wins. I hope the guys who invented this become multibillionaires.

[NewJerseyJoe]

>> all we need to solve just about any problem is an american with an idea and investors looking to make a profit

Absolutely. Ayn Rand would be proud!

>> could very well have serious geopolitical ramifications over the next 30 years

I had the same thought. There is NO business that would not be affected. Old closed landfills could be "cleaned out" and made profitable for the second and third times, (A) as a raw material source and (B) eventually, re-opened space for recreation, real estate, restored wilderness, etc. Municipal entities could make deals to send all their garbage and recycling (mandatory in many places), and in return getting either cheap fuel oil for their town or money for the town coffers from selling garbage. Construction companies will become hugely profitable because they'll be able to dispose of their debris in a much more cost-effective fashion, which in turn could (theoretically) make it cheaper to live in cities. Taxpayers who've been forced to subsidize municipal incinerators will get a break (although we're still stuck with the outstanding bills.) And so on and so on. I'm sure Freepers will soon start identifying hundreds of obvious (and many not-so-obvious) plus-es to this technology.

[boris]

"Is that simple enough for you, or would you like more help?"

I think it is you who need to look up the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

--Boris

[PatrickHenry]

Years ago, before modern sanitation, "night soil" was collected and used as fertilizer. In places like Japan, it was considered quite valuable. I can see the return of an old industry. (And perhaps suitable jobs for those on welfare.)

[US_MilitaryRules]

bttt

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

Your 80% energy efficiency is being cautious if the article is correct - they say 85% in the article. They are using the gas generated in the process to provide the energy, they say.

I am a retired chemical engineer, having worked in the rubber industry for 40 years. I am reserving judgement on this while looking to see what else I might learn about the process. If anything in the article adds credibility, for me it is seeing that Warren Buffett's son is involved, representing ConAgra interests.

This certainly fuels the imagination! $15 a barrel for oil they say is equivalent to #2 heating oil calculates 36 cents a gallon (42 U.S. gal barrel). If this goes to $10 a barrel in the next 3 to 5 years this goes to 24 cents a gallon. If this all really works then the bigger, more serious problem is to find a way to keep the grubby paws of state and federal govt (tax) away from it! Note: #2 heating (fuel) oil will also work quite well for diesel engines.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

It is not a question of getting something for nothing. As I read the article, it says 85% based on using 15 btu's to run the process for every 100 btu's (equivalent) in the feedstock. They say they are using gas formed in the process to provide the energy to drive the depolymerization. This gives 85 btu's of energy available in the product coming out the other end of the process.

The 100 btu's (equivalent) in the feedstock stream is not being input as energy. It is just what is there. 15 of those available btu's are being used as energy to drive the process.

Without the depolymerization conversion process, the 100 btu's (equivalent) in the feedstock is not efficiently or environmentally available, in most cases. And the feedstock will not fuel your truck or car or fuel your home heating system.

We get net negative efficiencies when we start using fossil fuels to generate electricity to charge batteries to power "electric" automobiles vs. using the fossil fuels directly to power the automobile through its internal combustion engine. Don't let the environazi's fool us by citing the "efficiency" of the "electric" auto relating only to the so called efficiency of the electric engine in the auto. They lie.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

Reportedly one of Saddam's sons was feeding people into a chipper/shredder - maybe he already had this process and was converting his political enemies into oil?

[soundbits]

Bumping for later close reading.

[Bellflower]

They shouldn't get grants unless they let us citizens be able to invest if we want to.

[citizen]

We need to investigate the effectiveness of the plant in Carthage Missouri.

According to the articles, it's supposed to be coming on-line about now. I suppose it will take some time to get everything tweaked for maximum efficiency.

[Britton J Wingfield]

there's room to MOVE as a fry cook!

[Britton J Wingfield]

My original statement is correct: 100 BTUs in (feedstock); 85 BTUs out (useful energy).

That feedstock is otherwise useless crap that would actually take resources to dispose of. You arent putting 100 btus of USEFUL energy in.

[citizen]

Any FReepers live near Carthage, Missouri and can check on this plant?

[honway]

http://www.solaraccess.com/news/story?storyid=4087

West Hempstead, New York - April 15, 2003 [SolarAccess.com] Changing World Technologies, Inc. unveiled what they believe is the first commercially successful application of thermal technology to convert organic waste into clean energy

[citizen]

bttt

[jslade]

It seems to me (twisted brain cells) that the Germans during WWII developed a process of turning coal into gasoline. Anyone know anything about this.

[Buggman]

If I remember correctly, prions do break up at something like 600-900 degrees F (far hotter than conventional fires, and of course no good for saving the victim). This invention cooks the sludge at 900 degrees, so it should be good for getting rid of mad cow disease too.

Yours in Truth,

[Axenolith]

ARF! Light oil... One of our loved elders last "jobs" will be "driving" a Kenworth :)