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Philadelphia Council Flouts Scouts' Antigay Stance
Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | May 29,2003 | By Linda K. Harris and Miriam Hill

Posted on 05/29/2003 6:26:27 AM PDT by South Hawthorne

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I guess I must be some kind of a horrible gay hating bigot that I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about a sodomite taking my son out on an overnight camping trip.
 
I mean, everything worked out great when the homosexuals infiltrated The Catholic Church, right?  Just a coincidence that every time I hear about a victim of a Priest's child molesting, it's always a male, I'm sure.
 
Why must I be so closed minded?

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

1 posted on 05/29/2003 6:26:27 AM PDT by South Hawthorne
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To: AGreatPer; Dr. Scarpetta; GregB; GEC; jz638; GoldenIceLion; silver fox two; gwmoore; Temple Owl; ...
PA Ping
 
Low volume (and probably way out of date from the elections) PA list.  Please let me know if you'd like on or need off.
 

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

2 posted on 05/29/2003 6:29:20 AM PDT by South Hawthorne (There is still time for endurance, time for patience, time for healing, time for change. -St. Basil)
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To: Owl_Eagle
Bump to the horrible gay hating bigot megadittos! There is no way I would allow a child of mine to go on an overnight with a sodomite.
3 posted on 05/29/2003 6:31:39 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay
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To: Owl_Eagle
""We disagree with the national stance, and we're not comfortable with the stated national policy," said David H. Lipson Jr., board chairman of the Cradle of Liberty Council. "That's why we're working on a solution that works for everyone."

The good people of Philadelphia need to terminate Mr. Lipson and his cohorts ASAP. These Leftist moles are in deep in all sorts of institutions and live for the opportunity to inject their dogma into the creeds and policies of traditional institutions like Scouting.

RX: Identify them, isolate them, excoriate them, cut them out of the institution, and eject them like sputum.

4 posted on 05/29/2003 6:34:44 AM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Defund NPR, PBS and the LSC.)
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To: Owl_Eagle
It is so sick that the Boy Scouts have become a focus for the homosexual lobby. You'd think at least the homosexual lobby wouldn't want to attract that kind of attention to themselves--obsession with being in charge of little boys...
5 posted on 05/29/2003 6:37:01 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle
I feel sorry for what is soon to be the first victim of these idiots. Some innocent little boy who trusts adults will be assulted and everyone will act surprised that it happened. What in the hell is wrong with these people?
6 posted on 05/29/2003 6:45:09 AM PDT by Sunshine Sister
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To: Mamzelle
They're doing it because they are confident of their ability to push the agenda which includes pederasty. The BSA organisation is doubly important as a target because it pushes mainstream traditional values and because it is a sodomite's dream. If they succeed, another pillar of society is gone.

In some ways, these assaults are like barometers of the condidence (or foolishness) of the Left. We know they seek destruction of Western culture and Judeo-Christian values, but the attacks they launch and the targets they choose communicate a great deal of their underlying strategic thinking.

This is a battle that has much of the cultural sympathy going against the Left. A conservative shift in American culture puts odds in our favor. If Scouting and its interested supporters fight back, these creatures cannot survive exposure to air and sunlight for long.
7 posted on 05/29/2003 6:46:32 AM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Defund NPR, PBS and the LSC.)
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To: WorkingClassFilth
The good people of Philadelphia need to terminate Mr. Lipson
 
Just an FYI to Delaware Valley Freepers, Mr. Lipson is the Publisher of Philadelphia Magazine.  Purchasing that garbage directly funds Lipson and his morally corrupt agenda.
 
(There's better ways to learn about the wonders of plastic surgery and million dollar interior decorating makeovers anyway.)

 

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

8 posted on 05/29/2003 6:48:08 AM PDT by South Hawthorne (There is still time for endurance, time for patience, time for healing, time for change. -St. Basil)
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To: Owl_Eagle
"The national Boy Scouts of America issued a statement saying it viewed the (2000 N.J.) decision as a victory."

And I am certain that N.A.M.B.L.A. views this local decision as a victory.

9 posted on 05/29/2003 6:50:25 AM PDT by Michael.SF. ('Any government that robs Peter to pay Paul, can always count on Paul's vote' - G. B. Shaw (mod.))
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To: Owl_Eagle
The whole problem is is that the moral majority, which I believe is a majority, sits back and allows minority groups to whine. If the Christian Coalition and other opposing groups would get off their asses, round up millions of voices, nothing will change it is up to all of us.
10 posted on 05/29/2003 6:51:48 AM PDT by TonyWojo
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To: Owl_Eagle
"We disagree with the national stance, and we're not comfortable with the stated national policy," said David H. Lipson Jr., board chairman of the Cradle of Liberty Council.

I wonder what Mr. Lipson will say when a rash of predators strike in his council. I see the death of the council in this action.
11 posted on 05/29/2003 6:51:50 AM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: Mamzelle
You'd think at least the homosexual lobby wouldn't want to attract that kind of attention to themselves--obsession with being in charge of little boys...

...That's the militants main goal! Militant Homo's want for people to believe that the lifestyle is normal, and therefore they should not be excluded from any activity. It goes along with their selfish attitude towards everything in life.

These are pervertedly sickminded people, trapped into a mindset of expedience.

12 posted on 05/29/2003 6:53:15 AM PDT by sirchtruth
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To: Michael.SF.
May I suggest a slogan for the pro-Scouting people of Philadelphia?

"HANDS-OFF, MR. LIPS-ON!"
13 posted on 05/29/2003 6:54:32 AM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Defund NPR, PBS and the LSC.)
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
I wonder what Mr. Lipson will say when a rash of predators strike in his council

Easy! "These attacks are caused by our intolerant society. We need to establish re-education camps where young heterosexuals can live in close proximity with homosexual men. In this way, the young heterosexuals will learn the errors of their ways and will not grow up to be closeted homosexuals who are uncomfortable with their own sexuality."

14 posted on 05/29/2003 7:00:05 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: TonyWojo
.... the moral majority .... Christian Coalition ...



I find it interesting that I've heard of more child abuse in the church than in the boy scouts.
15 posted on 05/29/2003 7:04:17 AM PDT by KCmark (I am NOT a partisan.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Only thing you left out was either "Seig Heil" or "Comrade", depending on your political orientation. But you are right with the council - they are and will be totally clueless.
16 posted on 05/29/2003 7:07:30 AM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: Owl_Eagle
They will be sorry!
17 posted on 05/29/2003 7:09:49 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Owl_Eagle
The 'Cradle of Liberty Council' had better keep its eye on the 'cradle-robbers'.

What nutless wankers these Philadelphia 'Scout Leaders' must be!
18 posted on 05/29/2003 7:13:41 AM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: Owl_Eagle
Time for a PA FREEP as that would do the best at national headquarters level.

This Council is out of control and their executive board is worse. For all of you PA FR each council has a web page and on that you can find the contact information for the paid scouters at council. It would be well worth your effort to send them email or snail-mail to express your disgust and at the same time send snail-mail to the national headquarters expressing your disgust at this council's behavior. Just might get them taken to the wood-shed by national headquarters. The national headquarters has a web site with contact information for sanil-mail but I don't remember it.

19 posted on 05/29/2003 7:19:08 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: Owl_Eagle
I must be some kind of a horrible gay hating bigot that I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about a sodomite taking my son out on an overnight camping trip.

Didn't the Catholic Church adopt a policy similar to the Valley Forge Council's a few years back? Wonder how that worked out?

20 posted on 05/29/2003 7:23:15 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: SandRat
The other thing too is how will this affect the BSA's liability insurance. See my earlier post about the Catholic Church.
21 posted on 05/29/2003 7:24:07 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7
Read too fast. Cradle of Liberty Council not VF. Very sorry VF
22 posted on 05/29/2003 7:26:19 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: WorkingClassFilth
Didn't that famous homosexual, Elton John, set this in motion years ago with his song "Philadelphia Freedom"?

BSA needs to dissolve this council and move the boys to a less radical group. Why put up with this crap? Or should they go ahead and drill glory holes in the camp showers?
23 posted on 05/29/2003 7:27:39 AM PDT by whereasandsoforth
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To: whereasandsoforth
The BSA is actually a multitude of complicated organizations. First, the professional organization hires and fires Council Execs, who are employees of the Boy Scouts of America. If The Council Exec made this decision, then he or she is history. More than likely it was the council executive board, which are community volunteers, that made this decision. If so, then there is not much that the national office can do about it immediately. Although in the long run, the concil exec can replace those board members who are pro gay. The article is unclear about who actually made this decision, but I would guess that a local politician who is a council board member was involved. In such case the local politician will not be asked to continue hes/her service on the board. The term for board members is usually one year. Meanwhile, the local politician has picked up some brownie points from the gay community.

However, the council office does not appoint Scoutmasters, gay or otherwize. Scoutmasters are appointed by each individual troop and their sponsoring organization, with the approval of the council office and the national office.

In the case of a gay Scoutmaster, the national office can refuse that person membership in the Boy Scouts of America, which means that any scout troop which appoints a scoutmaster who is not approved is no longer a "Boy Scout Troop."

In any event, those folks who are concerned about gay scoutmasters should get involved locally at the Boy Scout Troop level. It is the troop who recommends to the sponsoring organization who is a scoutmaster or assistant scoutmaster.

24 posted on 05/29/2003 7:51:36 AM PDT by FLAUSA
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To: Owl_Eagle
"... and this, Billy, is how we start a fire by rubbing two Cub Scouts together..."
25 posted on 05/29/2003 8:22:23 AM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle ("This is how six-year-olds argue: they call everything 'stupid'." --Coulter, on liberals)
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To: Owl_Eagle
Good Afternoon, Owl_Eagle,

No you're not alone. I earned my Eagle and 2 palms back in the late 50's early 60's. This was back when we actually had a Valley Forge Council.

Now, here's the problem. How can the Philadelphia Council take a non-discriminatory policy against homosexuals considering first and foremost, the Scout Oath???

Unless they have removed the phrase "Morally Straight", it flies in the face of reason.

Keep the Faith for Freedom

Greg

26 posted on 05/29/2003 10:28:05 AM PDT by gwmoore (As the Russian manual for the Nagant Revolver states: "Target Practice: "at the deserter, FIRE")
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To: Owl_Eagle
So it really is the city of brotherly love.
27 posted on 05/29/2003 1:56:46 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: FLAUSA
Thanks for your wonderful explanation,it makes things a little easier to understand.
28 posted on 05/29/2003 2:02:07 PM PDT by Mears (.)
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To: Mamzelle
You'd think at least the homosexual lobby wouldn't want to attract that kind of attention to themselves

Homosexuals aren't born, they're made and teenage boys are the primary targets of homosexual recruiting efforts.

29 posted on 05/29/2003 5:04:26 PM PDT by DaBroasta (GRID will eventually cure homosexuality)
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To: Owl_Eagle
Thanks for this info Owl_Eagle.
30 posted on 05/29/2003 5:10:28 PM PDT by fatima (Go Karen,Look at all these's prayers.For all our troops,we love you.)
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To: RonF; Coleus
Back Sliding Ping!
31 posted on 05/29/2003 5:12:47 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: *bsa_list; Clint N. Suhks; Polycarp; fatima; Doctor Raoul; P.O.E.; *Homosexual Agenda
They sold their soul to the Devil just for financial contributions from the United Way and corporations. I think many moral people will stop contributing.

http://www.scouting.org/media/press/020206/index.html

http://www.scouting.org/media/values/fact.html

http://www.scouting.org/media/values/points.html

http://www.scouting.org/media/values/bedrock.html

http://www.scouting.org/media/values/newsletter/0101/americanlegion.html
32 posted on 05/29/2003 5:36:33 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight)
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To: Coleus
This appears to be the link to the
Philly Council of the BSA Page >>>
http://www.colbsa.org/

.....THUNDER......

33 posted on 05/29/2003 6:08:08 PM PDT by THUNDER ROAD
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To: THUNDER ROAD
Thanks....E-Mail them here

http://www.colbsa.org/staff%20list%20101001.htm

http://www.colbsa.org/Contacts.htm
34 posted on 05/29/2003 6:13:02 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight)
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To: Coleus
Well... I did E-mail them ,
and quite a good letter it was
but I just got all I sent, back...just now
as Undeliverable Mail !

They Neeed a Good Freepin' !
so I'll keep lookin' for a Legitimate Link
for E mail to them

.....THUNDER......

35 posted on 05/29/2003 6:25:17 PM PDT by THUNDER ROAD
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To: THUNDER ROAD
They've probably shut down their server from the backlash; I'm sure we aren't the only ones writing them. I just e mailed the article and web link out to my friends.
36 posted on 05/29/2003 6:29:57 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/notify?detach=1)
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To: Owl_Eagle
"We were not prepared to allow our kids to be casualties on the battlefield of adults who should know better," Cohen said.

"I am not prepared to allow my child to be a casualty to a buttshark leader in your council, Mr. Cohen," Mr. Tull said.

37 posted on 05/29/2003 6:39:17 PM PDT by j_tull (Keep the Shiny Side UP!)
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To: Owl_Eagle
I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about a sodomite taking my son out on an overnight camping trip.

It's really sad. Hopefully, parents can take turns chaperoning all Boy Scout activities.

38 posted on 05/29/2003 7:54:20 PM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: Owl_Eagle
Wel, this is a bit of a sidebar, but it goes to the reliability of the reporter:

In July 2001, the Boston Minuteman Council approved a bylaw that challenged the national council's policy. The rule effectively allows gay youths to be scouts and gay men to serve as scout leaders as long as they do not openly reveal or discuss their sexual orientation.

Ahh, no, in fact this is "Don't ask, don't tell", and it's precisely in line with National policy. You can be gay and a Scout or Scouter, as long as you don't discuss your orientation.

39 posted on 05/29/2003 8:17:12 PM PDT by RonF
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To: RonF; Coleus
You can be gay and a Scout or Scouter, as long as you don't discuss your orientation.

You can be a bestial Scout or Scouter, as long as you don't discuss your orientation too. It doesn’t mean you’re serving honorably OR legally in the BSA, remember Scalia in the Dale case found the BSA doesn’t seek out ax murderers either.

Don't ask, don't tell is something you and the other pro-homosexuals made up out of whole cloth...or maybe you can cite that regulation for us, OK?

40 posted on 05/29/2003 8:42:44 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: Owl_Eagle; whereasandsoforth; FLAUSA; gwmoore; Mears; Coleus; THUNDER ROAD; Dr. Scarpetta; ...
A little review for those of you who may not be totally aware of how the BSA is organized:

A local BSA Council is run by the Council's Executive Board. The Board is made up of local businesspeople, community leaders, and usually a few Scouters. Representatives of each organization (churches, VFW Posts, PTA/PTOs, etc.) that sponsors Scout units (Packs, Troops, Crews, Ships) elect the Board members at the Council's annual meeting. These elections are rarely contested; they're usually a slate presented by the previous Board that's elected unanimously. The sponsoring organization representatives are generally not too attentive to this process.

The Council is a not-for-profit corporation; the Executive Board is it's Board of Directors. It's granted a charter (renewable annually) by National Council to operate the BSA program in a particular geographic area. The Council is repsonsible for supporting the sponsoring organizations, signing up new ones, raising money for and supporting Council-wide programs and properties (like the Council's summer camp and headquarters building), etc. To this end the board hires a Council (or Scout) Executive (think Council CEO) and various executive and support staff under him or her. The executives are trained and approved by National, but they are hired and paid by the local Councils.

Units (and their sponsoring organizations) recruit unit leaders. As of April, National conducts a simple background check, to see if you've got any felonies or child-abuse related offenses on your record. But it's the sponsoring organizations who are responsible for determining that a unit leader has the proper character, morality, and patience to work with children, parents, and the unit's other Scouters. The local Council will only get involved if the Scouter becomes publicly infamous for some reason.

A unit and it's sponsor can refuse to register either a Scout or a Scouter for any reason it chooses. A church can require that a Scouter be of it's faith. A VFW Post can decide that it's Troop is getting too big. A PTA can decide that if the parent won't get involved as a volunteer, the kid can't join. Personal hygeine can figure in. A divorced person, or someone living with someone they're not married to, can be judged as being immoral and unfit. A gay or lesbian can only become a unit leader if the sponsor allows it. And if they're not publicly out and make no reference or act to reveal it, especially in a Scouting setting, the Council is unlikely to know, or to do anything about it, given "Don't ask, don't tell".

Regardless of either the morality or fitness of the person who's the unit leader or the tenets of the sponsoring organization, parents would be well advised to get personally involved with their son or daughter's BSA unit. I don't care what you think you know. You never know.

As far as "morally straight" goes, there are numerous sponsoring organizations of units in the BSA that believe that homosexuality per se is not in and of itself immoral. That would include some churches, and numerous secular organizations (who sponsor units containing roughly about half of all Scouts).

What's likely to happen here is that National will ask the Executive Board President (notice that the Scout Executive is nowhere to be heard from; I seriously doubt if he or she asked for this) to explain himself. They'll want to know if this is another variant of "Don't ask, don't tell", or if this means that the Council will accept out homosexuals who will make their orientation and their connection to Scouting public. If that's so, National will look to see if the whole Board agrees with this. If the Board persists, National will threaten to refuse to renew their charter.

What happens next is theoretical, as it hasn't gotten beyond that yet. But they may well solicit another group of concerned citizens, one that will uphold National policy, to apply for a charter and award it to them. Either that, or merge the Council to one that's contiguous to it that is orthodox.

41 posted on 05/29/2003 9:07:05 PM PDT by RonF
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To: RonF
there are numerous sponsoring organizations of units in the BSA that believe that homosexuality per se is not in and of itself immoral. That would include some churches, and numerous secular organizations (who sponsor units containing roughly about half of all Scouts).


Tell that to Dale.
42 posted on 05/29/2003 9:09:26 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/notify?detach=1)
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To: Clint N. Suhks; Coleus
From here:

FICTION

The Boy Scouts of America sued to have members and leaders who are avowed homosexuals kicked out of the organization.

FACT

...

The Boy Scouts of America makes no effort to discover the sexual orientation of any member or leader. Scouting's message is compromised when members or leaders present themselves as role models whose actions are inconsistent with the standards set in the Scout Oath and Law.

and, elsewhere on that page,

We believe an avowed homosexual is not a role model for the values espoused in the Scout Oath and Law.

The BSA always refers to "avowed homosexuals" as being not welcome in the BSA, not simply "homsexuals". They obviously think there's a difference.

The BSA has a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. The most famous example of this is the case of the Camp Yagoog staffer. He was asked by the camp director (or his assistant, I can't remember) if he was gay. The young man told him (truthfully), "Yes". The camp director fired him. The young man appealed to National. National directed that the young man, who had admitted that he was a homosexual, be re-hired and paid back wages, as the camp director has violated "Don't ask, don't tell." If you search the web on "Camp Yagoog gay", you'll find this.

"Don't ask, don't tell" is no fable, it's National policy that they've upheld.

43 posted on 05/29/2003 9:22:58 PM PDT by RonF
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To: RonF
Straights procreate and Fruits Recruit!

Even though the Executive Board is made up of volunteers they must still be registered adult scouters. Part of that is signing a pledge that you will abbide to the national policies governing membership.

Given that the Executive Board in question is going against national they can be sent letters and sent packing.
44 posted on 05/29/2003 9:25:50 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: Coleus
Tell that to Dale.

That's a non sequitir. What's Dale got to do with whether or not a sponsoring organization may or may not believe that homosexuality is immoral? For example, the UU's certainly don't have a problem with it. The Episcopal Church has come out as opposing National's policy on this. Some Reform Judaism synagogues feel the same way. I think the United Church of Christ is also of this opinion. Dale has nothing to do with that, although his sponsor's opinion didn't do him any good when he granted a newspaper interview and referenced his homosexuality in it.

45 posted on 05/29/2003 9:27:52 PM PDT by RonF
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To: SandRat
Even though the Executive Board is made up of volunteers they must still be registered adult scouters. Part of that is signing a pledge that you will abbide to the national policies governing membership.

Um, you sure about that? I was unaware that E-Board member is a registered position. You certainly don't have to have registration as a Scouter otherwise to be elected to the Board.

Given that the Executive Board in question is going against national they can be sent letters and sent packing.

That may be. I think that the procedure, though, is as I outlined. National is unlikely to take action against individual Board members; they'd look to the Board to do that themselves. With a whole Board in defiance, I believe they'll take action against the Board as a whole.

46 posted on 05/29/2003 9:32:27 PM PDT by RonF
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To: Sunshine Sister
Some innocent little boy who trusts adults will be assaulted and everyone will act surprised that it happened.

Only you will never know about it, because chances are the pro-homosexual media won't report it.

47 posted on 05/30/2003 3:02:36 AM PDT by Houmatt (Real conservatives don't defend kiddy porn!)
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To: Owl_Eagle
"We disagree with the national stance, and we're not comfortable with the stated national policy," said David H. Lipson Jr., board chairman of the Cradle of Liberty Council. "That's why we're working on a solution that works for everyone."

No, you are working on a solution that works only for a small amount of people, at the expense of the kids. Sick bastrads.

Anybody by chance have some contact info so we could follow Congressman Billybob's suggestion of Freeping the National Boy Scouts and asking them to revoke these sickos' charter?

48 posted on 05/30/2003 3:13:07 AM PDT by Houmatt (Real conservatives don't defend kiddy porn!)
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To: Houmatt
Only you will never know about it, because chances are the pro-homosexual media won't report it.

If they do report it, the slant will be that it's intergenerational sex (NAMBLA's latest gimmick) that the children consented to, therefore it's none of our business what they do in the pup tent.

I think it's only a matter of time before Paulie "the huge-foreheaded RAT ba$tard" Begalia will be preaching to the dumbed-downed publik skooled masses that watch the CNN, that those of us who think that perverts who prey upon children are evil and should be forever removed from society are pedaphilephobic bigots.

49 posted on 05/30/2003 4:26:03 AM PDT by DaBroasta (GRID will eventually cure homosexuality)
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To: RonF
Yes I'm sure. I'm involved as an adult in one of Districts in this area's Council.

All that I've said is true. The question is will it be done?
50 posted on 05/30/2003 5:08:32 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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