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THE END OF THE BOY SCOUTS IN PHILADELPHIA
NewsWithViews ^ | June 2, 2003 | Hans Zeiger

Posted on 06/02/2003 6:39:40 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay

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The Meaning of the Boy Scout Oath

On my honor . . . By giving your word, you are promising to be guided by the ideals of the Scout Oath.

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. . . I will do my best . . . Try hard to live up to the points of the Scout Oath. Measure your achievements against your own high standards and don't be influenced by peer pressure or what other people do.

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. . . To do my duty to God . . . Your family and religious leaders teach you about God and the ways you can serve. You do your duty to God by following the wisdom of those teachings every day and by respecting and defending the rights of others to practice their own beliefs.

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. . . and my country . . . Help keep the United States a strong and fair nation by learning about our system of government and your responsibilities as a citizen and future voter.

America is made up of countless families and communities. When you work to improve your community and your home, you are serving your country. Natural resources are another important part of America's heritage worthy of your efforts to understand, protect, and use wisely. What you do can make a real difference.

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. . . and to obey the Scout Law; . . . The twelve points of the Scout Law are guidelines that can lead you toward wise choices. When you obey the Scout Law, other people will respect you for the way you live, and you will respect yourself.

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. . . To help other people at all times; . . . There are many people who need you. Your cheerful smile and helping hand will ease the burden of many who need assistance. By helping out whenever possible, you are doing your part to make this a better world.

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. . . To keep myself physically strong, . . . Take care of your body so that it will serve you well for an entire lifetime. That means eating nutritious foods, getting enough sleep, and exercising regularly to build strength and endurance. it also means avoiding harmful drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and anything else that can harm your health.

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. . . mentally awake, . . . Develop your mind both in the classroom and outside of school. Be curious about everything around you, and work hard to make the most of your abilities. With an inquiring attitude and the willingness to ask questions, you can learn much about the exciting world around you and your role in it.

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. . . and morally straight. To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance.

1 posted on 06/02/2003 6:39:41 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: fight_truth_decay
The least they can do now is to provide condoms in very scouts' kit.
2 posted on 06/02/2003 6:41:28 AM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: fight_truth_decay
scouts
3 posted on 06/02/2003 6:48:31 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: fight_truth_decay
Guess they'd seen the movie Philadelphia one too many times.
4 posted on 06/02/2003 6:49:32 AM PDT by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: fight_truth_decay
Furthermore, the BSA national office must entirely disconnect itself from the Philadelphia, Boston, and San Francisco Councils. And Boy Scout councils around the country must take notice that their entire mission is staked upon the moral character of the boys and men involved, and that if they sever those core principles from the program they will destroy the entirety of Scouting.

The national office needs to revoke the charters of these councils post haste to draw a line in the sand.

BSA Bump.

5 posted on 06/02/2003 6:58:35 AM PDT by LTCJ
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To: fight_truth_decay
Wow, that's mind boggling. You'd think the Catholic Church problem would have tempered this idea.
6 posted on 06/02/2003 7:01:47 AM PDT by tdadams
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To: fight_truth_decay
Hey, what do you want, Philly isn't known as the city of brotherly love for nothing...
7 posted on 06/02/2003 7:04:06 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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ENTER

.. The 25th Annual National Conservative Student Conference..Michael Reagan, Milton Friedman, G. Gordon Liddy, Ann Coulter................. [July 20-26]

8 posted on 06/02/2003 7:06:07 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: fight_truth_decay
The Philadelphia Council is the third largest local council in the country, serving 87,000 boys and men.

I wonder what would happen if they were to change their press release to read:

The Philadelphia Council is the third largest local council in the country, serving 87,000 boys, men, and faggots.

Often people will ignore issues when they are couched in careful terms to hide the truth. If the Scouts were up front with the truth, I wonder how many children would be yanked immediately from the Scouts?

Shalom.

9 posted on 06/02/2003 7:10:36 AM PDT by ArGee (I did not come through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a serving-man... - Gandalf)
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To: fight_truth_decay
I am surprised by all this. We were told that concerns that homosexuals would seek to convert young impressonable kids were totally unfounded by these advocacy groups. Then we discovered that there was massive recruiting going on by the good priests of the Catholic Church.

With the results of the Catholic Church among men who were certainly less likely to openly engage in a counterculture lifestyle than is the homosexual community as a whole in large cities like Boston, Philadelphia and S.F., I would think a parent would have to very carefully consider exposing a child to this type of situation.
10 posted on 06/02/2003 7:18:13 AM PDT by Indianer (Where is John Galt?)
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To: Indianer
I would think a parent would have to very carefully consider exposing a child to this type of situation.

I know you just used a turn of phrase but I would hope that a parent wouldn't have to consider it carefully at all. My hope is they would make their decision after about two seconds and protect their children without a second thought.

11 posted on 06/02/2003 7:28:33 AM PDT by LTCJ
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To: LTCJ
"but I would hope that a parent wouldn't have to consider it carefully at all."

No Kidding!

Kinda like the pro "Choice" bumper sticker that says "If you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child" To which I responded (with a note on the windshield) "If you think it is a choice...I DON'T trust you with a child!"

If you have to "carefully consider" this one, your childrem are already in trouble!
12 posted on 06/02/2003 7:36:04 AM PDT by RRWCC (Even under a good king, a subject is still a subject.)
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To: fight_truth_decay; Semper Paratus; SMEDLEYBUTLER; PBRSTREETGANG; LTCJ; tdadams; HamiltonJay
I'm a long-time Scout (= youth member) and Scouter (= adult member). A few comments:

Local BSA Councils are not-for-profit corporations consisting of local business and community leaders, as well as a few Scouters. They receive, and must renew annually, a charter from National Council to establish, oversee and support the BSA program in a geographic area. They in turn charter local organizations such as churches, veterans' organizations, fraternal organizations, schools, etc., to sponsor Packs, Troops, Ships, and Crews. These are also renewable annually.

If the sponsoring organization does not follow National and local Council guidelines and policies in running their units, the local Council can refuse to renew their charter. If the local Council does not follow National guidelines, National Council can refuse to renew their charter. In the former case, the unit folds and the Scouts would have to join another unit to continue in Scouting. In the latter case, either a new not-for-profit corporation would have to be started up to take over the charter, or the region the old Council covered could be taken over by one or more Councils contiguous to it. What's going to happen here is that first a delegation from National will meet with the Council's Executive Board (tha above noted local community and business leaders) to see just what their intent is, as opposed to what's in the press. If they persist that they are going to register "avowed homosexuals" as leaders, then I expect that they'll end up taking one of the steps I've outlined.

Note that it is the responsibility of the local units to select leaders. While the BSA is often brought into lawsuits on these matters, it's the sponsoring organization that has failed to do it's homework in registering an unqualified leader, and in failing to make sure that he or she is conducting the program properly.

National's basis for excluding homosexual leaders is because they provide what the majority of the BSA's sponsoring organizations believe are improper moral role models for youth. According to the BSA's own web site, any risk of paedophilia has nothing to do with it. And practically, if you search on Google for cases of molestation of Scouts by Scouters, you'll find that the Scouter involved either has no known sexual relations with adults at all, or is married and has kids.

What the BSA depends on to prevent child molestation is the proper selection of leaders by sponsoring organizations, and the strict application of the Youth Protection guidelines by the sponsors and the leaders. These steps will prevent child molestation of any kind.

The other way for parents to make sure that things of this sort don't happen in their unit is to show up. The BSA is not a program designed so that you can drop off your kid and a check once a week. "BSA" does not stand for "BabySitters of America". It's a family program, not a youth program, and you need to put some time in. Even if you can't be a leader, you can go on the occasional campout, hang around for a Troop meeting, run the Popcorn sale, help with the Pancake Breakfast, get your hands dirty helping with a service project, and in general observe what's going on.

I question the original author's characterization of the Minuteman Council's (Boston) announced policy re: sexual orientation of leaders. National doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Minuteman Council's policy seems to be "Don't ask, don't tell", which is National policy. They just stated it in a fashion that makes it a little more palatable for the locals. But I am unaware of any "avowed homosexual" who has taken a leadership position, "told", and stayed registered at Minuteman Council.

It's also worth noting that Cradle of Liberty Council isn't telling units that they have to accept homosexual members; they're saying that they can if they want to. Note as an analogy that BSA units can accept women as leaders if they wish, but many don't and are supported by both their local and National Councils (Troops sponsored by Mormon stakes do this) in their decision. The choice of leaders is up to sponsoring organizations and they are free to accept or reject leaders on whatever reason they choose (gender, profession, health, etc.).

Finally, cutting off support to your local BSA Council because there is an unresolved situation in Philadelphia is a sure way to hurt a bunch of youth and to make sure that they don't get the program from someone who wants to do so properly.

13 posted on 06/02/2003 7:38:30 AM PDT by RonF
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To: tdadams
"Wow, that's mind boggling. You'd think the Catholic Church problem would have tempered this idea."

The secular media have refused to draw the obvious connection between homosexuality and the sexual abuse of young men by priests. To the media, such a connection is unsophisticated and even bigoted, e.g., "only a small number of homosexuals are child-abusers - the problem is not homosexuality, but pedophilia." The undisputed existence of a homosexual "cabal" in many Catholic (and Episcopalian) seminaries is ignored. Instead, the media has seen these scandals as an indictment of celibacy, as if the thought process of the priests was, "Gee, since I can't have sex with women, I guess I'll have sex with the altar boys." Similarly, the media will not admit that homosexuals or pedophiles seeking opportunities for contact with vulnerable young males will now look to the Scouts as a window of opportunity. In short, this whole issue is a manifiestation of liberal stupidity and ideology overriding common sense.
14 posted on 06/02/2003 7:41:06 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: fight_truth_decay
Clearly the leadership council has been infected with enablers and wishful thinking leftists.

No logical parent would place their male child in the care of fudge-packers and pole-smokers.

There should be a mass exodus from the Philadelphia Council. They should be formally de-listed from the BSA, and then the parents should form a new council, with members who aren't enablers.
15 posted on 06/02/2003 7:43:07 AM PDT by jimt
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To: fight_truth_decay
When I recited that oath as a kid it was a very sobering thing to contemplate
As a teen I though it was lame
As a college punk I thought it was sadicious
As a grandpa I realize how American it truly is....and how vitally important for the survival of our nation and heritage..
God save the BSA for the sake of the USA
16 posted on 06/02/2003 7:46:46 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: RRWCC; LTCJ
What has been found in practice is that there are people in some areas of the country who are perfectly fine with homosexuals as youth leaders, at least in the abstract (as opposed to whether a particular one was otherwise suitable).

For example, there were 7 units in Oak Park, Illinois sponsored by the local PTAs where said PTAs refused to renew their charters unless the local Council allowed them to ignore sexual orientation when registering Scouters. A number of the parents apparently didn't object to this. The local Council (Des Plaines Valley Council) refused and refused to renew the charters. Most of the Scouts moved to other units. There are numerous sponsors such as the Unitarian Universalists, the Episcopal Church, etc., that sponsor units and object to the BSA's policy in this matter. And remember that about 45% of Scouts are registered to units sponsored by secular organizations, such as the VFW, American Legion, Odd Fellows, Elks, PTAs, public schools, etc., that either have no official ban on homosexuals or even have anti-discrimination policies that include them as a protected class.

Now, whether individual units of these organizations would actually register avowed homosexuals is another matter. Your child wouldn't actually have a gay Scoutmaster unless your unit decided to register one, and as a concerned parent you'd certainly find out about that if you wanted to.

17 posted on 06/02/2003 7:48:22 AM PDT by RonF
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To: Steve_Seattle
"The secular media have refused to draw the obvious connection between homosexuality and the sexual abuse of young men by priests."

If you check the BSA's web site, their official position is that there is no relation between the two. They state that they ban avowed homosexuals because they don't provide a fit moral example, and that the BSA sees no link between homosexuality and pedophilia.
18 posted on 06/02/2003 7:50:20 AM PDT by RonF
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To: Steve_Seattle
The secular media have refused to draw the obvious connection between homosexuality and the sexual abuse of young men by priests.

I don't necessarily agree with you there. I believe adult consenting homosexuals should be left alone to do what they will. I believe pedophilia is a separate and distinct problem.

But naively opening the door for grown men who are possibly homosexual pedophiles to be sleeping side by side with adolescent boys is like chumming the waters for pedophiles.

19 posted on 06/02/2003 7:50:51 AM PDT by tdadams
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To: jimt
There should be a mass exodus from the Philadelphia Council.

What you probably will see is a lot more parents starting to question their unit's sponsor, asking "Are we going to register a gay Scoutmaster?", and then switching units if they don't like the answer. The Cradle of Liberty Council isn't saying that the units have to register gays, just like they don't say they have to register women or any other particular class of people as leaders.

They should be formally de-listed from the BSA, and then the parents should form a new council, with members who aren't enablers.

If the Cradle of Liberty Council persists in this new policy, then this is probably exactly what will happen.

20 posted on 06/02/2003 7:54:36 AM PDT by RonF
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To: RonF
Unfortunately, the risk is too great for me.

Scouting was removed from my 3 daughters activities a few years ago when the "gay" agenda began to be pushed by the GSA. I removed it from my son's potential activities last year.

My children are too important to me to allow them to be in the care of an organization that won't protect them from pedifiles and deviant lifestyles.
21 posted on 06/02/2003 7:56:48 AM PDT by RRWCC (Even under a good king, a subject is still a subject.)
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To: RRWCC
My children are too important to me to allow them to be in the care of an organization that won't protect them from pedifiles and deviant lifestyles.

How has the BSA failed to do this? I am certainly unaware of any of this kind of thing going on in my area, and I'm in a position to know even if someone's trying to hide something from the media? What local Council do you live in?

22 posted on 06/02/2003 8:03:19 AM PDT by RonF
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To: RonF
In our council in the SF Bay Area, an assistant scoutmaster informed other leaders that he would not mind accepting gay leadership in the troop. Others disagreed and that was that. However in a "liberal area" like SF, the pressure on troops by sponsors, gay rights groups, schools, and some liberal parents is very high.

I agree with you that what will happen is troops who admit openly gay leadership will find their members come from the strict liberal multiculturalist group while traditional BSA families will seek out troops who do not allow openly gay leadership. I suspect the vast majority of scout families will seek the traditional orientation.

This will also empower the athiest rights group to renew their pressure on local scout troops too. This is different as "reverent" is a scout law and an Eagle requirement. Who would have thought when I was a scout that these discussions would be so in vogue today?

BTW, after my son was awarded his Eagle Rank, we sold our Bay Area house and migrated to Alabama. I don't expect the BSA to be under much pressure in our new home state.
23 posted on 06/02/2003 8:10:29 AM PDT by KC_for_Freedom
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To: RonF
My oldest daughter (Now 9) was just getting involved with Scouting a few years ago when the GSA endorced the homosexual agenda. I was not then aware nor am I now aware of any problems in our local area.

My son (now 7) has never been associated with Scouting so I would be unaware if there were any problems in our local Council.

For me, there are too many fronts attacking my family for me to take on another. For now it may only be a few local areas, but just like rotten apples, the rest will probably soon fall.

I will say that I do admire the BSA for holding out and taking a stand as long as it did. I had hoped that it would continue too. If my Son never gets involved, then I won't have the problem I did with my daughter of removing him from the situation when the local Council begins to rot.
24 posted on 06/02/2003 8:38:18 AM PDT by RRWCC (Even under a good king, a subject is still a subject.)
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To: KC_for_Freedom
Welcome to Alabama!
25 posted on 06/02/2003 8:39:38 AM PDT by RRWCC (Even under a good king, a subject is still a subject.)
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To: tdadams
I don't necessarily agree with you there. I believe adult consenting homosexuals should be left alone to do what they will. I believe pedophilia is a separate and distinct problem.

I believe this is naive on your part.Homosexuals are statisticaly more likely to be child molesters than hetrosexuals.Recruiting of teenagers is considered perfectly acceptable in the culture and by their organizations.
26 posted on 06/02/2003 9:23:07 AM PDT by Blessed
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To: Blessed
You're welcome to believe whatever fear-mongering you like. I think these assertions are silly and false generalizations.
27 posted on 06/02/2003 9:33:42 AM PDT by tdadams
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To: RRWCC
I will say that I do admire the BSA for holding out and taking a stand as long as it did. I had hoped that it would continue too. If my Son never gets involved, then I won't have the problem I did with my daughter of removing him from the situation when the local Council begins to rot.

There's a significant difference between the GSUSA (the GSA is a Federal agency and the acronym is too similar to the BSA's; the GSUSA loathes the use of that acronym) and the BSA. GSUSA units are essentially "owned" by the local GSUSA Council. Whereas BSA units are "owned" by the sponsor. If your GSUSA Council is quite liberal, you could have an issue with the leaders they've approved, and you may find it difficult to get all the information you'd want about why they were selected. Whereas if your BSA Council is liberal, but your unit's sponsor is conservative, you'll not see the problem you fear.

And you should be aware of, and ideally involved with, your unit's sponsor as well as your unit. We do have some children in our unit who are from single-parent families where Mom (never Dad, eh?) has to work a bunch of hours and can't put much time into the unit. But if a family has the resources to contribute time to the unit, but refuses to do so, well, then I can do without their son.

If Americans expect the BSA to be a safe place to put their kids into without any effort on their part to ensure that it's units are, in fact, such safe places, then Americans are very foolishly putting way too much burden on the BSA. It was, is, and always will be the parent's responsibility to do this, not the BSA's. The BSA has never accepted responsibility for unit leaders' actions, and it's not starting now.

28 posted on 06/02/2003 9:34:26 AM PDT by RonF
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To: RonF
What has been found in practice is that there are people in some areas of the country who are perfectly fine with homosexuals as youth leaders, at least in the abstract

Unfortunately true.

It brings to mind the phrase, "a liberal is just a conservative who has never been mugged." Unfortunately, these people are sending their kids down the dark alley in front of them.

29 posted on 06/02/2003 9:36:46 AM PDT by LTCJ
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To: KC_for_Freedom
You are right about the different nature of the debates about including homosexuals vs. atheists. There are numerous people who maintain that "morally straight" and "homosexual" are not mutually exclusive, and there are religous denominations that back them up. However, I don't see how anyone can reconcile "Duty to God" and "A Scout is ... Reverent" with "atheist".

One complication that I fear from allowing "local option" (where a local unit would be as free to choose homosexuals as leaders as they now are to choose, say, abortion providers) is that local governments and organizations might then start harassing individual units that refuse to enroll homosexuals. The BSA would be able to use their SCOTUS (I keep typing SCOUTS) victories to fight that off, but it would consume time, money, and resources at the local level for a while.
30 posted on 06/02/2003 9:39:12 AM PDT by RonF
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To: fight_truth_decay
Can anyone post some "gay pride" parade pictures??? Perhaps from the San Francisco Castro Street. These are the guys that will be taking your little boy out on that weekend camping trip.

Question: What would any red-blooded American father do if one of these pervs. molested his child?
31 posted on 06/02/2003 9:41:25 AM PDT by Imagine
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To: LTCJ
"It brings to mind the phrase, 'A liberal is just a conservative who has never been mugged.' Unfortunately, these people are sending their kids down the dark alley in front of them."

With the result at the end of that alley being what?

That their son is assualted? The BSA maintains that there is no link between homosexuality and sexual assault of children.

Or that their son is influenced to become homosexual? That's different. But there's no evidence either way, so these parents would have to work off of what they believe. As well as whether they believe that a homosexual son is a bad outcome. My guess would be that anyone who believes that this is a possibility (and I'm not maintaining a particular position on that) would keep their kid out of a unit with homosexual leaders.
32 posted on 06/02/2003 9:44:00 AM PDT by RonF
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To: Imagine
What would any red-blooded American father be doing putting his son in a unit lead by people such as you describe?

What would any red-blooded American father be doing allowing the unit to select such leaders in the first place? Or would he be too lazy to serve on the Troop Committee, the group responsible for examining and approving unit leaders?

Or, finally, why would any red-blooded American father be too lazy to become a unit leader himself (or even just go on some of the campouts) and keeping an eye on the other leaders to make sure that Youth Protection policies that prevent youth molestation are being observed?
33 posted on 06/02/2003 9:48:09 AM PDT by RonF
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To: RonF
As you can probably tell by my lack of understanding about the hierarchy of the different Scouting groups, I did not have the opportunity to be a Scout myself. I had many friends who were and that sparked my interest in seeing if my children would be interested in Scouting. My daughter was just getting involved because a friend of hers invited her. She was only there a few months when I found out about the GSUSA (Thanks for the correction).

I have apparently falsely associated the two groups and I thank you for the correction. I was unaware of the difference in the way that the Boy Scouts are organized. I will check into it. I would love for my son to enjoy some of the stuff that I missed. Again, Thanks for the correction.
34 posted on 06/02/2003 9:50:11 AM PDT by RRWCC (Even under a good king, a subject is still a subject.)
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To: RRWCC
Scouting was removed from my 3 daughters activities a few years ago when the "gay" agenda began to be pushed by the GSA.

Yep. We don't have any kids, so we just gave up buying the cookies. I miss Thin Mints terribly.

35 posted on 06/02/2003 9:53:34 AM PDT by nina0113
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To: nina0113
"we just gave up buying the cookies"

We did that too. I do miss the cookies.
36 posted on 06/02/2003 9:56:18 AM PDT by RRWCC (Even under a good king, a subject is still a subject.)
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To: RonF
None of my children would NEVER go on a campout without me (or my wife). However, just because someone doesn't become a unit leader doesn't mean that he is "too lazy".

because we are very involved in our Church I would not have the time left over to be a Unit leader and do the job correctly.
37 posted on 06/02/2003 10:02:04 AM PDT by RRWCC (Even under a good king, a subject is still a subject.)
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To: RonF
None would NEVER...

I mean EVER. Guess I need to proof-read a bit better!
38 posted on 06/02/2003 10:03:16 AM PDT by RRWCC (Even under a good king, a subject is still a subject.)
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To: fight_truth_decay
From an old Boy Scout/Scoutmaster...thanks
39 posted on 06/02/2003 10:06:45 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Imagine
These are the guys that will be taking your little boy out on that weekend camping trip.

Actually these are the guys that couldn't couldn't give a rat's ass about donating time to mentor young boys lest it get in the way of their busy social life. But don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

40 posted on 06/02/2003 10:07:35 AM PDT by lurky
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To: fight_truth_decay
Can just visualize the annual Boy Scout Jamboree will eventually turn into a recruiting effort by the Philadelphia Council to get every homoy into scouting and leadership roles. The homo groups are just elated. More and bigger recruiting grounds have just opened up to them to give them the impetus to get themselves listed as a constitutional-protected species while perverting our young. I hope the National Council of the BSA throws the Philly Council out for perversion of the institution of BSA.
41 posted on 06/02/2003 10:46:55 AM PDT by lilylangtree
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To: fight_truth_decay
A sad day in Philadelphia. The City of Brotherly Love doesn't give a toot about the moral surroundings of its boys. They'd rather love a bunch of pedophile-homosexuals and let them abuse kids. As far as morals goes, it would seem that Philly ain't got nilly.
42 posted on 06/02/2003 10:47:09 AM PDT by No Dems 2004
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To: lurky
Hardly a rant. Come Monday morning, the suit and tie go on and her they are -- looking just like everyday people...
43 posted on 06/02/2003 10:51:16 AM PDT by Imagine
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To: Imagine
her = here
44 posted on 06/02/2003 10:52:20 AM PDT by Imagine
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To: Semper Paratus
The merit badges are going to get VERY interesting
45 posted on 06/02/2003 11:10:17 AM PDT by Teacher317
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To: Imagine
My point: partying and carousing homosexuals aren't interested in becoming troopmasters. Seriously.
46 posted on 06/02/2003 11:15:43 AM PDT by lurky (being fair)
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To: RRWCC
I am not maintaining that everyone has to sign up as a unit leader. But everyone that has a child in a BSA unit should do something. Go on a couple of campouts. Help run an activity. Teach a merit badge that you have competence in (there's 106 of them, you have competence in at least one). I'd wondering, though, why you feel that either you or your wife have to go on every single Troop campout?
47 posted on 06/02/2003 11:28:37 AM PDT by RonF
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To: RonF
Unfortunately I am one of those parents who may be too protective of my children. I'm sure that after a bit, as I build confidence and my children get older, I may loose that tendancy. At the present time though, I am a firm believer that no one looks after you children like you look after your children.

I say that with mixed feelings though because many times my children have had their friends join us for different things and I care for and protect their friends just as I do my own. Also I frequently take many of our church children to different events/activities, caring and protecting them as my own.

Since I know that I'm not a "super parent" or even necessarily better at it than others, Intellectually I know that others will care for mine just a well as me. Just doesn't seem like it when they are with someone else.

There has to be a study of people like me somewhere. My wife does temper my over cautiousness.
48 posted on 06/02/2003 11:40:45 AM PDT by RRWCC (Even under a good king, a subject is still a subject.)
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To: RRWCC
The BSA and the GSUSA have absolutely no relation to each other. In fact, trial balloons about merging the two have been shot down repeatedly over the years by both sides. Their methods have a number of similarities, but a number of differences as well. One of the main ones is that in the BSA, the BSA's program is intended to supplement and support that of the sponsor and it's families, not to present a program that's independent. Another is that the GSUSA is very definitely by women for girls. Men are not allowed to be the "principal leader" in a GSUSA unit, whereas a woman can be a Scoutmaster, Cubmaster, etc. Finally, the BSA's program of rank advancement is much more of a specific progression, whereas in the GSUSA the awards are independent of each other, there's no progression and no set of specific skills (like First Aid, Citizenship, camping, cooking, etc.) that the girls have to learn to get ranks.

One of the changes that the GSUSA went though over the last decade was to allow youth to remove the word "God" from the GSUSA oath. This was justified by the GSUSA to WAGGGS (World Association of Girl Guide and Girl Scouts, the international GS sanctioning body) on the basis that the GSUSA wanted to allow girls for whom "God" was too Judeo-Christian to substitute their own deity (a.k.a Allah, Jehovah, Brahma, etc.). WAGGGS requires that it's membership organizations require their individual members to profess some kind of higher power. However, the effect seems to have been to allow the GSUSA to accept members who substitute nothing for "God", either verbally or mentally. And it seems that the GSUSA is doing little to disabuse people of that here in the U.S.

As far as your son goes, if he's 7 he's Tiger Cub or Wolf Cub age, depending on his grade level (1st or 2nd grade; if he's homeschooled, you can pretty much pick it yourself). Look in the phone book or yellow pages for the name/address/phone number of your local Council. Or, go on here, enter in your zip code, and get it from there.

Call the council. Tell them what town you live in, and ask for your District Executive. Once you're talking to him or her, ask about the Cub Scout Packs in your area. Find out who their sponsors are. The DE will want to know what church you go to and what school your son goes to so that they'll know whether or not there's a Pack sponsored by them. By the way, it's possible for you to live in one District, but for your son's school or church to be in another, so you might end up talking to another DE. Get the names and phone numbers of the sponsors and the Cubmasters of 2 or 3 Packs.

Call them up. Ask them how big the unit is, when/where it meets, and what activities they do. Outings, campouts, service projects, etc. A Pack meets once a month, but your son will be most closely associated with a Den, made up of 4 to 8 Cubs his own age/grade level. Find out what Dens they have and who the Den Leaders are, when/where they meet (often in the Den Leader's home), and what the Den Leader's phone number is. Now call the Den Leader and ask the same questions.

Then take your son to a couple of Den meetings, and see if you like what you see. Please understand that a Den Meeting is not usually all that quiet. These are young boys, and while sometimes they're working on a project, a smart Den Leader sets aside some time for the boys to be active and let off steam. In short, to be boys.

Should you find a Den and Pack to your liking, you'll fill out a short application, and your son is a Cub Scout. Congratulations! Expect to be solicited to become a leader. I encourage you to do so. You'll find it rewarding (I have). The application asks for your SSN. They use this to do a background check on you. The BSA NEVER releases information of any kind about their leaders to anyone. Companies have offered fortunes to the BSA for it's mailing list, but it never releases or sells the information and never will. You'll also be asked to take a couple of basic training courses. Please try to fit those into your schedule. You'll find it very helpful (I'm on our Council's training staff).

But, even if you can't sign up as a leader, please consider helping out at either Den or Pack meetings, the popcorn sale, etc. Understand that there's a group called the Pack Committee that handles running the fund raisers, recruiting leaders, buying the awards, getting the newsletter out, etc., that you can do on your own time without having to go to Pack or Den meetings. You can join it.

Of course, if you really want to go the whole hog, you can organize a Pack at your church or other community organization. You only need 5 Scouts and 5 adults to start a Pack, and small units are much easier to handle than some of those Cub Scout Packs with 100 or more Cubs in them.

49 posted on 06/02/2003 11:59:43 AM PDT by RonF
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To: RRWCC
I had a young man cross over from a Pack into our Troop. He stayed only for a few months. Because of his work schedule, his father couldn't accompany him on campouts. Because of her health, his mother couldn't do so. And they insisted that one of them had to go on an outing or he couldn't. Then, when he quit, his parents told me that their son had lost interest. No kidding; the kid never got to go on a campout, so of course he quit. Apparently the kid wandered off from his parents when he was 5 at Disneyland and Mom never got over it.
50 posted on 06/02/2003 12:02:54 PM PDT by RonF
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