Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

What if Hitler Had Invaded the United States in World War Two?
Ave Maria

Posted on 06/16/2003 6:15:57 PM PDT by AveMaria

This is a nightmare scenario targetted towards all of you World War Two history buffs.

About a week ago, a statue of Eisenhower was unveiled at the Capitol in DC, honoring President Eisenhower in his army uniform. In a speech commemorating that occassion, Bob Dole asked the audience to consider what would have happened if Ike had failed in his crusade. Is there a possibility that Hitler would have managed to take advantage of political, regional, and ethnic divisions in America in the 1940s, and defeated good old USA?

It certainly would not have been possible for Hitler to stage a successful naval invasion across the Atlantic to take the Eastern Seaboard, irrespective of whether or not America succeded in Europe. He simply did not have a Navy that was large enough for that task.

I considered various ways in which the Germans would have defeated America, assuming that they had succeeded in their mission to conquer the Soviet Union:

1. They might have attempted to conquer Alaska, based on their ability to control Siberia and the arctic regions of Russia. From there, they would have rolled over poorly defended Canada, from which they would have launched a massive invasion from the sparsely populated North-Western US.

2. Using the historic grievances that Mexico has, especially over territorial loss in the 1848 war, Hitler could have encouraged the Mexicans to stage a massive military invasion from the South (something similar to what their illegals are already doing). Given that many South Americans had pro-axis fascist feelings during the war, Brazil and Argentina could have send their own armies as well, to support the Mexicans. And, considering that Latin America continued to trade with Germany in the war years, Germany would have been able to move massive armaments and troops to South America, support an invasion from Mexico. As a reward, Mexico would have been rewarded with the return of California, New Mexico and Arizona. The rest of South America would have had a chance to be freed from American regional dominance that has existed since the Monroe Doctrine.

3. Hitler could have reached out to the anti-FDR right-wing, the likes of Charles Lindberg, Henry Ford, Rev. Charles Coughlin, and their many followers who were influential in the America First Movement. He could have used the resentment that Irish-Americans and German-Americans had for Anglo elites who wanted to save Britain, a nation that many in both groups disliked (I am Irish myself, and I am aware about how many Irishmen resented going to help Britain. The Republic of Ireland made a conscious decision to stay neutral in the war to the very end).

4. Germany could have offered the South a second chance. If the South militarily supported the defeat of the Yankees, they could get back the Confederate States of America. The CSA would have been a fully independent right-wing nation that was allied to Germany, like Franco's Spain. They would have been allowed to preserve their system of segregation, a system that Germans approved of.

5. In the 1940s, Eugenics was highly favored by both liberal and conservative elites in New England. American race scientists like H. Goddard, Carl Bingham, Madison Grant, and Lothrop Stoddard were standard readings in the school system in Nazi Germany. A shared interest in race issues would have brought the Nazis and the New England Eugenicists together.

A combination of all those forces would have overwhelmed the FDR administration.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; Philosophy; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: eisenhower; germany; hitler; worldwar2
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 301-310 next last
What do the World War Two Buffs think of that nightmare scenario? Any possibility that the Germans could have expolited divisions in the US and the Americas, to defeat the US?
1 posted on 06/16/2003 6:15:57 PM PDT by AveMaria
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
A more interesting question is: What would have happened if America has avoided WWI.
2 posted on 06/16/2003 6:18:40 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
1. They might have attempted to conquer Alaska, based on their ability to control Siberia and the arctic regions of Russia. From there, they would have rolled over poorly defended Canada, from which they would have launched a massive invasion from the sparsely populated North-Western US.

Roll over what roads? Alaska is huge wilderness area larger than all the territory the Germans conquered on the eastern front during World War II.

3 posted on 06/16/2003 6:21:18 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
I'm a WW2 buff and I don't see any feasible way that Hitler could have defeated the United States. Even if he had conquered Great Britain and the Soviet Union. The U.S. war machine by then was in high gear and fighting the war in two separate oceans. Hitler was doomed.
4 posted on 06/16/2003 6:22:55 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (Back in boot camp! 260 (-40))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
You have to really spin a tale to make this work. For one thing, the Luftwaffe had no long range bomber (B-29 class).
5 posted on 06/16/2003 6:24:09 PM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
Is there a possibility that Hitler would have managed to take advantage of political, regional, and ethnic divisions in America in the 1940s, and defeated good old USA

Kinda sounds like what the Dems are trying to do....

6 posted on 06/16/2003 6:24:27 PM PDT by So Cal Rocket (Free Miguel and Priscilla!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
A couple ofthings.

First, Hitler could not have reached out to the right wing in the US, or the south. Once he had taken Europe, those who were admirerers lost their admiration. Only a very small minority was fond of him.

Also, an invasion from Siberia wouldn't have been much easier than from Greenland or other European areas. The harsh climate and extended supply lives would have been a nightmare.

While South America did not strongly oppose Germany, neither was it atrongly pro-Germany. The axis had a great deal of opposition because of the historic opposition to Europeans, who had been the colonial masters. There was also problems caused by active terrorist cells in Latin America sponsored by Japan. (A little discussed reason that the internment happened in the US)

Finally, to get Mexico involved, Germany would have had to supply the equipment. That isn't any easier than an actual invasion. In fact, it's harder, because Mexico would have been unable to protect the unloaded equipment from an American attack. And there would have been no way to keep such massive movements secret, even in 1940.

The axis plan was to weaken the US through isolation, and tht was a long term plan from the German perspective.
7 posted on 06/16/2003 6:27:26 PM PDT by sharktrager (There are 2 kids of people in this world: people with loaded guns and people who dig.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
Stalin understood the challenge best.

When it comes to invading the U.S. the ultimate problem isn't getting past the U.S. military, it's dealing with the 80 million snipers once you're there.

Kinda says something about the importance of the 2nd Amendment, doesn't it?

8 posted on 06/16/2003 6:28:23 PM PDT by mitchbert (Facts are Stubborn Things)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
The whole idea's pretty unworkable. He would have had absurdly long supply lines. You only have to look at the troubles he had in Russia to know how bad that can be.
9 posted on 06/16/2003 6:29:02 PM PDT by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
I have an alternate-history novel on that approximate topic. It's called 1945, and it was written by William R. Forstchen and Newt Gingrich (really!). In it, the US stayed out of the European theater, Germany controls almost all of Europe except for Britain, and Hitler launches a raid on Oak Ridge. Good book, but I've been awaiting the promised sequel for several years.
10 posted on 06/16/2003 6:30:42 PM PDT by NovemberCharlie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
Throughout the Second World War - even when it proved to his immediate tactical disadvantage - Hitler maintained two research, development, and construction programs: (1) a deep sea navy including aircraft carriers; (2) a long-range bomber fleet, including jet rocketry advances. By all appearances, Hitler had every intention of mounting an invasion of the United States from the Eastern Seaboard, with presumably the Japanese hitting us from the other direction.

As explained by an eminent WWII historian acquaintance of mine (he's published one of the foremost texts) the evidence strongly suggest Hitler intended to base his transatlantic invasion forces in Norway (he was going to bridge the Jutland Straits, incidentally) and the Azores Islands. His long-range bombers would fly sorties across the Atlantic as his deep-sea aircraft carrier based Navy led the invasion force.

In short, had Hitler succeeded in conquering the Soviet Union and the British Empire, we were soon on the list - probably by 1950 at the latest. Whether it would've proven a successful invasion (and whether he would've secured Western Hemisphere allies, such as Brazil) is another matter altogether. BTW, the reason Hitler clung so tenaciously to the Baltic Sea ports (even as his land forces were overrun by the Russians) was so he could continue the deep-sea navy R&D program.

PS. If one considers the Manhattan Project into this equation, then almost certainly we would have had a Cold War period with the Nazi Empire, followed perhaps by nuclear war once Hitler completed the inevitable crash nuclear program. I cannot imagine Hitler would've surrendered even if we used our three atom bombs in 1945.
11 posted on 06/16/2003 6:30:46 PM PDT by AntiGuv ()
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
The German Forces didn't do too well in the cold of the eastern front. And Mexico had already decided to do that using civilian rather than military invaders. The second Civil War thing could have worked for them.
12 posted on 06/16/2003 6:31:02 PM PDT by Consort
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
Germany's best chance would've been to develop an A-Bomb and force us to surrender, probably after demonstrating it's power in a couple of our largest population centers.
13 posted on 06/16/2003 6:31:04 PM PDT by Brett66
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
If he had won, Pat Buchanan might today be Chancel...err..President.
14 posted on 06/16/2003 6:32:28 PM PDT by Courier (The Saudis are our friends, they want us in Heaven as soon as possible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
If the Japs had played it a little smarter in the Pacific theater, could they have gained a foothold in (undefended) Alaska?
15 posted on 06/16/2003 6:33:51 PM PDT by Nexus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mitchbert
When it comes to invading the U.S. the ultimate problem isn't getting past the U.S. military, it's dealing with the 80 million snipers once you're there.

I have nothing else to add. You just said it all!

16 posted on 06/16/2003 6:33:58 PM PDT by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Brett66
Germany's best chance would've been to develop an A-Bomb and force us to surrender, probably after demonstrating it's power in a couple of our largest population centers.

Fortunately for us, most of the best German physicists were Jewish and worked on the Manhattan project.

17 posted on 06/16/2003 6:34:40 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
Hitler could not even get across the English channel much less the Behring Strait. Hitler did not 'have the horses.'
18 posted on 06/16/2003 6:34:40 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (Further, the statement assumed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AveMaria
Interesting.

Some here I've seen already suggested Hitler couldn't have invaded America directly.
This is true, BUT Hitler already had a rocket program with the V-2 and larger rockets in design stages, his scientists were working on the atom bomb using the heavy water from Norway for experimentation.
If the invasion of England had taken place and the British defeated, the Nazi's would have had a platform for launching directly on the NE cities of the US.
It would have been very devestating to this country if a number of V-5 rockets armed with 1 atomic device apiece were launched against us.

It would enflame the population, but to we would be limited in response due to the Atlantic distance.

19 posted on 06/16/2003 6:34:50 PM PDT by Pistolshot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NovemberCharlie
Aha. Seems they never found a publisher for the sequel.
20 posted on 06/16/2003 6:35:05 PM PDT by NovemberCharlie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 301-310 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson