The Evil of Dating (Dating vs.Courtship)

Lewrockwell.com ^ | September 7, 2002 | Heather M. Carson

[Theo]

In their book, Cloud and Townsend write:

We strongly disagree with the idea that all people should give up dating for several reasons."

That's called a "Straw Man Fallacy." That kind of fallacy is when you misrepresent your opponent in such a way that it's simple to knock down their argument. The thing is, Joshua Harris' books never say what Cloud and Townsend say is says.

Harris's point is exactly mine -- that singles don't need to buy into the North American concept of dating; there are other options. And perhaps because "dating" has become such a connotated word, so synonymous with serial relationships that likely end in a break-up, Harris has offered a different word. Along with that word he's offered a fresh (or maybe old/quaint/traditional) concept of relationship, with good examples of that concept worked out.

But again, Harris never says that all dating is wrong, and that if you date, you're sinning. In fact, he specifically says that's *not* what he's saying....

"Straw Man" is one of the more common types of fallacy....

[GreatOne]

She's 100% right. I dated, and it was miserable. When I met my wife, her family believed in courtship, where I would spend time with my wife and her family at first. After a period of time, when it was obvious we had fallen in love, we went outside of the home on "dates" (for lack of better word) and were engaged and married shortly thereafter.

Dating was something invented by the lower classes, as they did not have parlors for visitations like the rich people did. Has caused nothing but severe emotional distress for our nation's youth. Not surprised at all by the illegitimacy and divorce rates once I understood this basic evil.

[Cogadh na Sith]

I courted my wife for a year, things were great. Good family, fairy tale wedding... We had to be apart for 6 month while I was in the Army. I came home and she told me not to bother moving in. Divorced me and took half my stuff. Never gave a reason--Probably some other guy.

Not losing hope, I tried again 4 years later.

Courted her for a year, nice family, church-going girl, Godly. Things were like a fairy tale for two years. All at once--like in a month--She starts acting weird: bad friends, staying out late, compulsive spending. She's diagnosed with Manic-Depressive Disorder, won't take her pills, stops going to church, ruins my credit, my friends don't like to come around because they told me they can't stand to see how she treats me.

With the help of Prayers and God, I stuck this out 4 more years.

We get in an argument about her spending and staying out for nights. She calls the cops and claims I'm beating her (I wasn't). Cops interview both of us and see she is whacko and advise me to 'stay lost for a while'. As she has spent my paycheck, I take a bedroll and sleep on the mesa for a few nights.

She is now shacked up with some other guy and trying to take half of my stuff.

With the first wife, maybe she swindled me in and I was naive. With the second one, no one could have predicted it.

All I know is: I will never give another person the power to use the courts and cops to destroy me just because they feel like it.

I will never do it again. Nor do I plan on being celibate. I'm looking forward to dating and fornicating like a rutting animal.

Marriage is crap. 'Courting' is crap. The laws are designed to ruin men's lives.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

What can I say? I'm Dark Lord of the Sith or some crap like that.

[Theo]

Cool!

[rwfromkansas]

She didn't ask them.

They came to her, at least that is the way it appears to me when she says the girls confided in her about things.

[rwfromkansas]

She said she offered to "answer any questions they might have."

Then she goes on to say: "One by one these girls came to me, after only a few months at college, wrestling with the desire of their new college boyfriends to be physical with them."

They came to her. Where do you get the idea that she went around taking some virginity survey???

An RA is to be supportive. That is what she was.

If an RA did go around asking people about their virginity status, then that is a problem and I would be leery of such a person......they appear to have something wrong with them. But, it does not look like this woman did that. The girls came to her with the info.

[ohioWfan]

I am sorry for your experience, and I understand how hurt you must be. (Well, no, I don't, but I can imagine).

Just don't hurt yourself even more by 'dating and fornicating'......it's more dangerous these days than it has ever been.

A good marriage.......one that is NOT crap.....requires two people to work at it, and you, unfortunately were the only one doing it in both cases.

May God bless you and heal your deep wounds, as you try to put your life back together.

[BlazingArizona]

Reversing the clock back to the way male-female relationships were for the vast majority of time...

Let's see now: you knock a girl up at the age of fifteen, marry, and have twelve children as fast you can in hope that three of them will not die of yellow fever. Then you die of overwork at age forty after a life of honest toil

Wasn't life great in the good old days?

[rwfromkansas]

Awesome.

I am into dating myself and am a conservative Christian.

But I have begun to think about several dating "issues" especially related to me.

1. Due to my shyness, dating is not a good way to get to know someone. I went on a date with a girl earlier this year. It was a disaster because she was shy, too. We then went out and just hung out as friends and had a blast. It was fun. Recently, before college let out for the summer, she and another guy were getting pretty close....they aren't dating or anything, but they were really really close....pretty darn close to dating. I was happy for her and he is a great guy and a friend of mine...one of the most caring guys I know on campus. But, he is very outgoing and able to talk to people; he isn't shy. She needs someone who isn't shy to allow her to open up when it comes to non-friendship relationships. Anyway, my shyness really limits my ability to have anything except friendship.

Therefore, instead of just asking a girl out, it seems perhaps more logical to go at least more along the lines of the courtship approach (not 100% following the "courtship rules", as I would not have a problem with holding hands or SOME kissing.....a little....before asking for marriage if that would be the end of the courtship). But, I do believe that the way dating is set up is destructive. Thus, I should become friends with a girl and be pretty good friends, know her pretty well. Then, if I think there may be something there, ask her to go on a date etc. and see how it proceeds. At least in this situation, there is no heartbreak like in the normal dating relationship and we would still be friends after.

I do see a lot of benefit in courtship, though I am not sure if I am ready to go 100% courtship......but perhaps I should alter my behavior a bit to go more in line with that due to the benefits and how it would help my shyness problem since we would already know eachother well and what to talk about.

[rwfromkansas]

"If it feels good, do it."

Quite the Roman, are we?

[Cogadh na Sith]

Just don't hurt yourself even more by 'dating and fornicating'......it's more dangerous these days than it has ever been.

So is marriage. It's easier to 'be careful' with the 'dating and fornicating' because at least the risks are known....

A good marriage.......one that is NOT crap.....requires two people to work at it, and you, unfortunately were the only one doing it in both cases.

Because women are rewarded now for not 'working at it'. They don't have to worry--they either do nothing, or crap on the poor guy and he either takes it, goes to jail and loses his house, kids, retirement and freedom or he just walks away and loses his house, kids, retirement and self-worth.

On the opposite, if I 'shack up', the woman has to work harder for it and actually try to make it work because my state doesn't recognize 'common-law marriage'.

The married woman need not try and is rewarded by the state and by society for being 'her own woman', The shack-up honey is either nice and tries to 'make it work' or leaves with nothing.

Tell me which makes more sense for me as a man? I cannot believe that God would want me to enslave my soul to the base passions and madness of another. Satan rewards madness and idolatry, not God.

State sanctioned marriage can no longer be a Godly institution because the State enforces an 'uneven yoke' on the couple.

Tell me, were Mary and Joseph married by a Roman Prelate under Roman polytheistic law, or were they married in the sight of God?

I'll never give a person the power to use the courts and cops to destroy me because they want to. Tell your sons to repeat that. It should be the mantra on the lips of every man.

[y2k_free_radical]

VERY INTERESTING

[y2k_free_radical]

BRILLIANT QUIP

[rwfromkansas]

That does not fit with the courtship of another poster....the parents were not invovled or at least he didn't mention that. Then again he said they called that "courting," so that may have just been there name for it.

I prefer his method over the "getting permission from the parents" deal to even see his daughter. Excuse me, but I don't think a father of a college girl has the right to tell me I can't see her if I am interested in her. I would respect his opinion on marriage itself, however, though it also would not be the ultimate deciding factor.

I see a lot of problems with the current dating scene, but do not like your definition of courting. I think it gives parents too much control. Now, if someone is in HS still, a parent should exercise such control.

[y2k_free_radical]

ROTFLMAO

[rwfromkansas]

They are a rocking band, aren't they?

I usually listen to Contemporary Christian stuff, but enjoy some of their songs. It rocks.

[Cogadh na Sith]

My X-es parents were involved in the courtship and are supportive of me and feel terrible about how their daughter has treated me. They are trying to talk her out of taking half my stuff and my retirement.

It holds no weight in the eyes of the law. I say date and fornicate and keep your retirement guys!

[FoxPro]

I'm looking forward to dating and fornicating like a rutting animal.

Well put. My marriage was over 15 years ago after my 25-year-old wife had a summertime fling with my older brother. Walked in one afternoon and they were in my bed. I stuck around for the kid’s sake. My youngest is 17 now. We are divorcing now, and she wants way more than half my stuff. I wish she would just take all her self-help books and crap and get the he11 out of my life.

At this point I am looking for a gal who is not fat, and smells right where it counts (bonus points if she makes a lot of money and isn’t around very much). I will date until I find her. I am 41, and am very glad I had my kids when I was young (I don’t think I have ever had a cross word with either of my boys, ever). I don’t know what the future holds, but I intend on having fun finding out.

[rwfromkansas]

The lyrics are accurate in many cases also.

I don't give a crap about a girl if all she wants is a sugardaddy quite frankly.

If she likes me, not money, then she is someone deserving respect.