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Ben Franklin Quote - Your feedback please
August 14, 2003

Posted on 08/14/2003 2:56:23 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP

"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins."

-- Benjamin Franklin



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: benfranklin; quotes
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To: MeeknMing
This contradicts the revisionist notion that the founders were Deists--believers in a God who does not intervene in the affairs of men. Franklin speaks of a God who gives rights and implicitly declares that those rights, by virtue of their origin, are not subject to the dictates of tyrants--except where ignorance of their divine reality causes men to forget.
81 posted on 08/16/2003 7:38:44 AM PDT by farmer18th
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To: DPB101
Well said, I was being sarcastic about it. For men, whose every other written word was God, the revisionists of history are quick to point out that they were not really believers but diests.
82 posted on 08/16/2003 7:41:51 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: onyx; Richard Kimball
Thank you ! Glad to hear that ...

83 posted on 08/16/2003 7:42:04 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Check out the Texas Chicken D 'RATS!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/keyword/Redistricting)
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To: MissAmericanPie
whew...thanks too. You made me read more on the subject. Didn't know that Franklin told Thomas Paine to burn his The Age of Reason before showing it to another person.
84 posted on 08/16/2003 8:34:09 AM PDT by DPB101
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To: MeeknMing
I agree whole-heartedly with the quote. But I think the problem these days stems from teaching people to value something they don't ever think they'll lose. To stop them from taking their rights for granted. To remain vigilant. I think passivity is as big a problem. Not to mention teaching people to differentiate between rights and privileges, which is another problem. Along with an increasing sense of entitlement. But that's another can of worms :)
85 posted on 08/16/2003 8:47:03 AM PDT by mewzilla
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To: MeeknMing
MnM, did your Professor back up the statement about Benjamin Franklin with any facts? If so, what were they? Can you name a source? Did your Professor name a source? Are you repeating it here because it struck you as funny or because it was proven to you to be true?

I've done research of my own, and I find *nothing* to back up the slanderous accusation. If there are facts that can do so, I'd really like to see them. For something that is so oft repeated, there is a curious absence of anything to back it up with on the web.

86 posted on 08/16/2003 10:43:39 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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To: mewzilla
I think passivity is as big a problem. Not to mention teaching people to differentiate between rights and privileges, which is another problem. Along with an increasing sense of entitlement. But that's another can of worms :)

I think you are right to include these thoughts together in your post. I believe it is the same can of worms. (; The very assignment posed by the teacher, which is the impetus to this thread, does nothing to develop reason, logic, or the ability to argue a point. The student was asked to find out how others FEEL about this quote. It *exemplifies* the dumbing down of America that takes place in our public schools: "I'm supposed to interview people and get their thoughts on this quote....What does this quote mean to you? Do you agree with it? Or disagree with it?."

If people can not use logic to make rational sense of life, the universe, and everything, and then argue their conclusions reasonably, then why should we expect them to be able to differentiate between rights and privileges?

I tell you, passivity is the result of not having the tools with which to get the job done: why bother? On the other hand, our Founders had great educations, well-developed thought processes, could argue and debate using the rules of logic, a wealth of knowledge upon which to draw, and the ability to research what they did not know. That is why they were able to rebel against the Throne, draft the Declaration of Independence, "Common Sense," the Constitution, the Federalist Papers and the Bill of Rights. They *enjoyed* the exercise - proof exists everywhere that after the Founders spent the whole day in debate, these gentlemen went home and wrote *personal* letters between one another full of more arguments to defend their positions!

87 posted on 08/16/2003 11:03:50 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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To: .30Carbine
hehe ! Well, that professor made that statement 30 years ago. I'm not real certain whether he made comments intending it to be solid truth or if he was referring to it in jest though.

I did check around Google Search and found a couple of things that referred to his ways with the ladies, however. That he had an illigitimate son may say more about that issue than anything else, perhaps ??:

Editor Claude-Anne Lopez describes
her 'life with Benjamin Franklin'

Franklin has a reputation as a ladies' man. Did he have a lot of love affairs?

I think we should distinguish between sex and love affairs. Sex is quite plausible, when you consider that he was a vigorous man, away from home for years at a time. But love affairs are another story. The best answer is that we have absolutely no proof of any. Certainly Franklin liked women. He knew how to flirt. He wrote lovely letters. But that doesn't mean he had affairs with all these women, as is often supposed. He did have one illegitimate son who was born before he was married, and Franklin raised him in his own house as one of the family. Apart from that, we don't know about any illegitimate children, about any liaisons once he married. Everybody in those days kept diaries and gossiped in them, and in all those French diaries, there isn't one mention of any kind of liaison that Franklin could have had. So there you are.


Why do people speculate so much about Franklin's sex life?

Because it makes him more human, closer to the rest of us. And then, of course, the rumor was propagated by his political enemy John Adams, who refers more than once to Franklin's love of women. Adams talks about it in a shocked way. But this was when Franklin was in his late 70s, so I think it was a tribute to his lasting power.


Setting aside his reputation as a ladies' man, what do you think Franklin would have wanted to be remembered for?

I think his favorite invention was his musical instrument, the glass [h]armonica. He was terribly proud of that. He delighted in it. He told people about it. He played it and wanted his daughter to learn to play on it. It was something that gave him great joy. I imagine that he would also want to be remembered for his invention of the lightning rod, which had such an impact in his day, and of what is currently known as "the Franklin stove," then called the Pennsylvania fireplace. Come to think of it, he also invented bifocals.

REMARKABLE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN PRESIDENT
ABRAHAM LINCOLN AND BENJAMIN FRANKLIN

Strong Sex Drive  Though the information was suppressed for years, Lincoln was sexually active prior to marriage. So was Franklin; he fathered an illegitimate son  and was strongly attracted to the ladies throughout his life.


88 posted on 08/16/2003 11:54:31 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Check out the Texas Chicken D 'RATS!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/keyword/Redistricting)
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To: MeeknMing
The ignorant are prey for unscruplous rouges.

My favorite Ben Franklin quote is:

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." :)

89 posted on 08/16/2003 12:01:15 PM PDT by LibKill (If you don't vote, don't complain!)
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To: MeeknMing
So was Franklin; he fathered an illegitimate son and was strongly attracted to the ladies throughout his life.

Yes he did. He also provided for his son, Benjamin Freeman, and gave him fatherly advice as well.

Hell's donkeys! I'm not perfect either!:)

90 posted on 08/16/2003 12:03:24 PM PDT by LibKill (If you don't vote, don't complain!)
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To: .30Carbine
He has a notorious historic reputation as being among the biggest womanizers ever. Evidently you have read the history about him beyond the inventions and his participation in government. He was NOT perfect.
Women were one of his obsessions and probably why some inventions that were made had the kitchen in mind.
91 posted on 08/16/2003 12:25:28 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: G.Mason
I basically agree with it, only "being taught" may not be
quite enough. There may have to be a generation from time to time that has to face the loss of freedom to a tyrant and repel that imminent threat in order for freedom to
remain viable in a society.
92 posted on 08/16/2003 12:52:28 PM PDT by Twinkie
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To: MeeknMing
When people are enslaved and they don't realize it, the tyrannical governors are happiest. But the day it finally hits them...
93 posted on 08/16/2003 12:55:16 PM PDT by Glenn (What were you thinking, Al?)
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To: StriperSniper
No government school here. :) Tried that for 5 years and it just wasn't working. My daughter is homeschooled.
94 posted on 08/16/2003 2:18:35 PM PDT by SpookBrat ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." Mother Teresa)
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To: MeeknMing
Oh my....sex, love affairs and babies????? This is for American History, not Health class.

ROFL!!!!

95 posted on 08/16/2003 2:23:22 PM PDT by SpookBrat ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." Mother Teresa)
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To: Glenn
"When people are enslaved and they don't realize it, the tyrannical governors are happiest. But the day it finally hits them..."

It seems to me, Democrats want people to need them so they can stay in office; so they can stay in control. It reminds me of an evil rich relative who wanted to leave me a lot of money once with terrible strings attached. No thanks. I didn't take the money. I would rather be free and poor than dependent and enslaved to this person.

96 posted on 08/16/2003 2:32:13 PM PDT by SpookBrat ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." Mother Teresa)
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To: .30Carbine; MeeknMing; onyx; All
Thanks for your great comments. I have not sat down in 2 1/2 days. I'm so tired I'm sick to my stomach, therefore, I have not been able to keep up with this thread. I will come back to it and print it out. I read all the input and everyone is amazing. FReepers are the smartest people.

97 posted on 08/16/2003 2:35:43 PM PDT by SpookBrat ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." Mother Teresa)
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To: No More Gore Anymore
You might find this thread interesting. I'm going to bed early. Night all....
98 posted on 08/16/2003 2:37:59 PM PDT by SpookBrat ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." Mother Teresa)
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To: MeeknMing
This has turned-out to be a most amazing and enjoyable thread! Bless you for thinking to post it to us!
99 posted on 08/16/2003 2:41:39 PM PDT by onyx (Name an honest democrat? I can't either!)
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To: MeeknMing
"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins."

It means:

Citizens who refuse to spend their idle hours watching imbecilic television programming, but instead watch what the political class is doing to them will not end up like the Cubans who stayed behind. However, if the people let the politcal class get away with murder and allow them to tax the shi- out of them without uprising, they deserve what they get.

100 posted on 08/16/2003 2:44:02 PM PDT by JesseHousman
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