507th Weapons Records Missing

El Paso Times | 17 Sept. 2003 | Laura Cruz

[Lurker]

507th weapon records gone

Laura Cruz
El Paso Times

The ambush

Killed

# Pvt. Ruben Estrella-Soto, El Paso.

# Chief Warrant Officer 2 Johnny Villareal Mata, Pecos.

# Spc. Jamaal R. Addison, Roswell, Ga.

# Pfc. Howard Johnson II, Mobile, Ala.

# Spc. James Kiehl, Comfort, Texas.

# Pvt. Brandon Sloan, Bedford Heights, Ohio.

# Pfc. Lori Piestewa, Tuba City, Ariz.

# Sgt. Donald R. Walters, Salem, Ore.

# Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy, Cleveland.

# Pfc. Edward Anguiano of the 3rd Forward Support Battalion.

# Sgt. George Buggs of the 3rd Forward Support Battalion.

Captured

# Spc. Edgar Hernandez, Alton, Texas.

# Spc. Joseph Hudson, Alamogordo.

# Spc. Shoshana Johnson, El Paso.

# Pfc. Patrick Miller, Walter, Kan.

# Sgt. James Joseph Riley, Pennsauken, N.J.

# Pfc. Jessica Lynch, Palestine, W.Va.

# Piestewa died while a prisoner.

The U.S. Army on Tuesday revealed that all records and documents about the weapons that jammed during the March 23 ambush that led to the death of nine Fort Bliss soldiers were destroyed in the Iraqi attack and that there is no way to trace the weapons' histories.

The Army, responding to an El Paso Times request under the Freedom of Information Act, said any official information about the weapons used by Fort Bliss' 507th Maintenance Company was lost on a supply truck taken into combat.

An official report on the ambush near Nasiriyah said that several weapons, including M-16s, M249 Squad Automatic Weapons and a .50-caliber machine gun, jammed or failed to operate properly during the firefight.

The disclosure that the records were lost shocked, bewildered and further angered relatives of soldiers who were killed in the early morning ambush, which is among the worst losses for the U.S. military during Operation Iraqi Freedom. In addition to the nine Fort Bliss soldiers killed, two from the 3rd Forward Support Battalion were killed, five soldiers were wounded, and seven soldiers were taken prisoner.

"Capt. Troy King (507th commander) stated that he does not have any historical data on weapons involved in the enemy contact," June Bates, Fort Bliss freedom of information officer, said in a written response. "He lost his motorpool truck and all documentation."

Bates said King's records, which were kept in the motor pool, were stored in his supply truck, which was also "involved in the enemy contact."

The official 507th report, which was released by the Army on July 17, suggests that the "malfunctions may have resulted from inadequate individual maintenance in a desert environment."

Nancili Mata, the widow of Chief Warrant Officer 2 Johnny Villareal Mata, who was killed in the ambush, said she was shocked to learn that no duplicate records were kept on the weapons.

"They should have copies here. It doesn't sound right," she said. "They are blaming the soldiers for not keeping their weapons clean, but my husband knew better than that. He did everything right."

Arlene Walters, mother of Sgt. Donald R. Walters, who died in the attack and would have celebrated his 34th birthday Tuesday, said her son was dedicated to his job and to details. She said she finds it hard to believe that her son's weapon wasn't kept clean.

"He kept his guns as clean as can be," she said. "He even talked to his dad about it."

Because the circumstances surrounding the death of Walters are unclear, his parents continue to ask questions about anything involving their son, including the history of his weapon.

"Nothing surprises me anymore, but what I don't understand is why would you carry that kind of information into a battlefield," Arlene Walters asked. "It seems to me that if those weapons were issued out at Fort Bliss, then the records should have stayed at Fort Bliss."

Ruben Estrella, father of 18-year-old Pvt. Ruben Estrella-Soto, from El Paso, said he no longer believes anything the Army tells him.

"They told me that my son was shot in the head, and now they are saying that he was struck by a tank," he said. "I think the Army or the government is hiding something, but sooner or later the truth will be told."

Fort Bliss responds

The El Paso Times had requested the history of 31 weapons the soldiers carried during the ambush. The request sought information about weapon repairs, the weapons' ages, and the manufacturer and condition of each weapon assigned to the 507th soldiers involved in the attack.

Officials at the Department of Defense referred all questions to Fort Bliss officials.

Jean Offutt, Fort Bliss spokeswoman, said that taking all data regarding a company's weapons into battle is standard practice.

"When we deployed, all our active-duty soldiers had to take their documents with them because we mobilized a lot of reservists who lived in the emptied barracks," Offutt said. "So all of their personnel files as well as files on weapons were taken with them."

Because personnel files were lost in the ambush and no duplicates exist, the 507th is now trying to re-create the information. Also, Offutt said, some of the weapons the 507th used haven't been recovered.

"But shortly before the soldiers deployed, all of the weapons were certified and serviceable," Offutt said. "The weapons were fired on the firing range before they deployed."

[Chief_Joe]

Ambush, explosions and caught behind enemy lines!

Ohhhhhh boy...and they said they would not try to make her a hero. I can't hardly even look at that photograph -it's a sad joke. She's no soldier and never was one, except for in name only. She just looks like a lovely and caring young lady. It's outrages that she was there to supposedly fight. Now she's got me a bit upset though. I don't mind her telling a true story about how she should not have been there, but if she goes along with crap and tries to play up her role I'll despise her. I've read that report, and there are some serious questions about her performance throughout the whole campaign that need to be answered.

[91B]

Not true according to http://www.sftt.org/PDF/article07102003a.pdf which Hackworth notes is the PDF file of the Army's official report she is mentioned on p. 12: While attempting to make the U-turn, the 10-ton wrecker driven by SPC Anguino with SGT Buggs, towing the 507th's disabled 5-ton supply truck (originally driven by PFC Lynch with SGT Rose), got stuck in soft sand. Again briefly on p. 13 and more to the point on p. 14 where it notes:1SG Dowdy was killed on impact. Piestewa survived the crash, but was seriously injured and died in captivity. Lynch was also seriously injured and captured.

BTW I was reading some analysis of the incident on the SFTT website and Paul Connors explicitly and Ray Perry indirectly noted the dust in the area as a factor in weapon malfunction. Connors had a point-by-point list and point 4 stated: Weapons failures in the fine sand of Iraq were not uncommon. The sand there is approximately as fine as talcum and gets into everything (and stays there). Perry claims: they cleaned and protected their weapons and suffered widespread jamming anyway.

Command failure was probably the biggest factor in what happened with the CO being largely to blaim, but other factors are important as well. For instance AT-4's, pyro and grenades were not issued to the troops, there were only 5 SINCGARS and 6 military GPS's issued in a 16 vehicle convoy, note as well that there were only 33 troops, barely enough for a driver and a-driver-not leaving much down time for cleaning what with the a-driver responsible for security with their personal weapon.

I certainly think that Lynch is getting a lot more credit than she has coming (one of the troops on this mission got a silver star for his heroics, but I'll bet that not more than one person in 10,000 could tell you his name). It also seems clear to me that there are a lot of people playing Monday morning, armchair quarterback talking about what they would have done and how this could have been avoided when it seems to me that most of what went wrong was just plain fog of war.

[Chad Fairbanks]

I ignored the reference on page 12, because it had nothing to do with the ambush - I don't know how I missed page 14, but more than likely because it was basically the same as was on 19 - but still, no mention that she was 'out cold', which MileMark said was there...

[AnnaLaura]

The person to whom I posed the question responded very politely, for which I'm most appreciative.

[jaykay]

Everytime the D.C. Snipers are brought up, inevitably the bumbling Chief Moose - a perfect example of political correctness gone haywire - will be brought up and more than likely criticized.

Really? Has that been going on, even in threads in which Moose has no or little relevance, such as the change of venue hearings? Cheif Moose leftovers served up when the focus is on aspects of the sniper case where he isn't important, Jessica Lynch rehash here in a thread about lost records of 507th weapons... With everyone so easily distracted, no wonder after thousands of posts over several Lynching threads, the Lynching isn't finished yet.

[jaykay]

Maybe you need to go back and read the official army report - every single soldier has at least a sentence saying what they did. Except, oddly enough, PFC Lynch, who is reported to have done:



According to the report, Lynch was picked up by Sgt. Dowdy and Lori Ann Piestewa after her vehicle broke down and rode in the back seat while Piestewa attempted to speed away from the ambushers and ended up crashing, mortally wounding Piestewa, killing Dowdy and the other passengers and knocking Lynch out cold. What does anyone expect Lynch could have done while unconsious? Before the crash, what does anyone expect her to have done while in the back seat of a speeding vehicle? If her weapon was functioning, would it have been advisable for her to have been firing out the windows of a moving vehicle?

Lynch was the only survivor from that vehicle and the Army claimed at the time that she had no memory of the incident, so where would they have been able to get the complete story of what she did or didn't do anyway?

[jaykay]

I'm not saying that it was all her fault, but in truth, she and every other soldier in that unit have to bear some responsibility for lives lost due to the state of their weapons.

Sure she was probably knocked out from the beginning but my bet is if she wasn't her weapon would have been just as useless as the rest of the unit's. One soldiers failure to properly maintain is as much their personal responsibility as it is their leaders.

So in my opinion it was at least 1% her fault.

That makes sense! Reason and rational thinking reappears!

[jaykay]

Oh, come on now. You want the truth? Just watch Access Hollywood.

Jessica Lynch
Ambush, explosions and caught behind enemy lines! First "access" to the Jessica Lynch TV movie and the actress who's playing Private Lynch...
(Yes, that's really what it says on their site.)

---

This is an example of a good point aimed at the wrong target. Access Hollywood is produced by NBC, which is also producing the Lynch TV Movie, that's why they hype it so shamelessly. If you are criticizing this hype, I absolutely agree with you. But by using Jessica Lynch's photo, you seem to be directing the criticism at Lynch, who declined to participate in this project. The criticism should be directed at the perpetrators of this trash:


and



and even



Yes that's right, the Department of Defense, unlike Lynch has gone into the business of making TV sweeps trash. They are cooperating with NBC on the movie, providing military vehicles and helicopters and trying to make the script more authentic.

Yes, I see that the Lynch photo is from the Access Hollywood website and that they are using the real Lynch's photo to promote their b.s. movie. The media's misuse of Lynch has been shamefull from the start. That doesn't make it right to use her again to counter their hype.

[jaykay]

What annoys me is the extreme commercialization of this story. It's becoming the white, plastic Christmas tree of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

With the encouragement of the Dept of Defense, as I noted previously. What could their motive be? Some here have said the Lynch hype is feminist propaganda. Is the Pentagon interested in participating in such? Some people in the Pentagon, surely, such as those who provided the leak to the Wash. Post that led to the bogus "Lynch fighting to the death" story. Hard to believe they would have enough influence to get the DOD involved in feminist propaganda.

[jaykay]

"...but if she goes along with crap and tries to play up her role..."

Surely you've read by now that Lynch is not participating in NBC's TV movie whatsoever? Whatever they portray her as, blame it on NBC, not Lynch. You can also blame it on the Pentagon, as the Dept. of Defense is cooperating with this project.

[jaykay]

I see you've been trying to cast doubt on whether Lynch was unconcious or not as milemark states she was. I made similar statements before I saw this exchange, so I am providing the references in advance.

Military officials said the Humvee carrying Piestewa and Lynch plowed into another jackknifed U.S. truck, after being hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. Lynch suffered major injuries, including multiple fractures and compression to her spine, that knocked her unconscious.

According to ABC News, the Army report details how one of the captured members of the 507th, Sgt. James Riley, later confided to another soldier that he had watched in horror as the Humvee driven by Piestewa weaved frantically along the road, desperately trying to escape the hail of gunfire, before it plowed under the trailer of the truck and came to a stop crushed into the "bobtail" hitch of the giant semi-tractor. Citing sources, ABC News reports Riley and Pfc. Patrick Miller ran to the crash scene, screaming into the vehicle: "Is anyone alive?" Amid a barrage of gunfire, Miller single-handedly attacked several Iraqi soldiers he spotted setting up a mortar position and killed them, firing his M-16 until he exhausted all his ammunition. Witnesses reported Miller's rifle jammed and he began "slamming rounds into the chamber one at a time" and firing them before he was eventually captured. The Army preliminary report calls for Miller to be decorated with the Silver Star, one of the Army's highest honors.

Khudher told The Post he saw the unconscious Lynch taken prisoner, as well as Piestewa, whom he described as being still alive. Military officials reported her killed in the ambush. "Two U.S. officials with knowledge of the Army investigation said Lynch was mistreated by her captors. They would not elaborate," reports The Post.

The paper repeats earlier reports that Lynch has no memory of what happened to her after the accident but, as WorldNetDaily reported, the Lynch family dispelled any notion Jessica suffered amnesia and suggested they were under a gag order of sorts not to divulge any details. "There really wasn't no amnesia problem," Greg Lynch, Jessica's father, told reporters at a press conference outside the Palestine, W. Va., family home. "Her memory is as good as it was when she was at home." But when asked to elaborate on what his daughter remembers happening, Lynch said, "We're really not supposed to talk about that subject. It's still under investigation." http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33122

Whether Piestewa remained conscious immediately after the crash, which occurred about 7 a.m., is uncertain. But an Iraqi farmer is quoted as telling he newspaper that he saw "two American women, one dark-skinned, one light-skinned, pulled from the Humvee." He believed the light-skinned woman, probably the unconscious Lynch, to be dead. http://www.azcentral.com/news/specials/iraq/articles/retro-piestewa-update.html

Lynch was riding in a Humvee when it plowed into a jackknifed U.S. truck. She suffered major injuries, including multiple fractures and compression to her spine, that knocked her unconscious, military sources said. The collision killed or gravely injured the Humvee's four other passengers.

Two U.S. officials with knowledge of the Army investigation said Lynch was mistreated by her captors. They would not elaborate. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/135029092_lynch19.html

The "official report" being refered to is not the actual report, by the way, but the "executive summary" of the report. The full report has not been and is not expected to be made public.

[grumple]

Something smells funny here. This "lost records" excuse is an old tired yarn.

Yeah...so was the "killed during a training exercise" during the Clinton years...

[TankerKC]

Maybe an Army trooper can clear this up...isn't small arms maintenance reported in STAMIS? And, doesn't that create an electronic record? There should be a record in STAMIS as of their last upload...correct?

[Chad Fairbanks]

Well, based on what I read straight from the army, there is no mention of her being 'out cold' or 'unconscious'. Only in statements to the press have they said it. Why was it left out of the report they released? I'm just curious.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

The person to whom I posed the question responded very politely, for which I'm most appreciative.

I am sorry if I offended you, but have reread my posts and don't see it. I am however straight forward, a trait I learned in the same place I learned about weapon maintenance records, and not talking about a subject I know nothing about.

[milemark]

I beleive jaykay's post #111 probably holds the answer. The report released was not the full report but a summary, meaning not all available information was provided. As for why the Army would state in the press that she was unconscious but leave it out of their report or summary or their report, I'm mystified. What do you think? Is something being covered up? There was a Newsweek article a couple of months ago that claimed Lynch was not injured in the crash or only slightly injured and all of the damage was done after she was captured. Maybe the Army would rather not have that known. All guesswork without more info...

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

I copied exactly what was on the Access Hollywood site, jaykay - picture and text. I made my comments mocking Hollywood. If you can't figure out who I'm criticizing, I'll just live with that.

[milemark]

jaykay was not the only one misled by that post. Chief_Joe, in his post #101 seems to have gotten the idea that Lynch is involved with that film project: "I can't hardly even look at that photograph -it's a sad joke. She's no soldier and never was one, except for in name only. She just looks like a lovely and caring young lady. It's outrages that she was there to supposedly fight. Now she's got me a bit upset though. I don't mind her telling a true story about how she should not have been there, but if she goes along with crap and tries to play up her role I'll despise her."

In fact, she is not involved in that crap. She turned down NBC. Access Hollywood is a creature of NBC. A.H. is misleading when they include Lynch's photo, seeming to imply that she is going along with their crap, and by repeating their offense without clarification, you compound it. jaykay and Chief_Joe paused to comment on this. Dozens or hundreds of others may have drawn the same conclusions and moved on without commenting.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Then complain to the webmaster at Access Hollywood. I copied what was there, picture and text, and I directed my comments toward Hollywood, not Lynch.

People who are following this story know what she has signed and what she hasn't signed. It's not my responsibility to include everything I know about her in every post.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

By the way, if you were disturbed by Chief_Joe's impression of my post, why didn't you correct it?