Kennedy/Kerry:"If the bishops won't do anything about that, don't come to me. It's their problem."

FIRST THINGS ^ | October 2003 | Richard John Neuhaus

[dangus]

>>Um... name one.

>Every Catholic one. An excommunication can be latae sententiae; latae sententiae excommunication = automatic sentence of excommunication.

I specifically referred to *individual* excommunication.

[wideawake]

I specifically referred to *individual* excommunication.

Whether an excommunication is accompanied by public bells and whistles doesn't affect the nature of excommunication.

[ClearCase_guy]

If at the time of the wedding Ted didn't consider marriage to be a lifetime commitment, then grounds for an annulment exists.

This is news to me, but I'll accept what you say. This tells me about how some "grounds for an annulment" might exist. Fine. But, if Joe Catholic goes to his priest and indicates that he and Martha are going to breakup after 20 years of marriage -- can he quickly and easily get an annulment? Just by saying, "On my wedding day, I said to myself, 'Joe, it's not like this is a lifetime commitment, or anything!'"

Whether grounds exist or not, the real question is who gets granted the annulment. Some folks do, and some folks don't. Kennedys do. Because the church is looking out for number one.

[Aquinasfan]

A few years ago, as I was walking with a friend across the Boston Common after finishing the Walk for Life, we noticed Sen. Kerry pitching in a softball game. We were pretty surprised. Someone on his staff must have screwed up big time. Anyway, we walked up behind the backstop and held up our signs for a few minutes. Then we shouted, "Senator Kerry, defend life!"

He didn't flinch. We hung out for a few more minutes and then moved on.

[Aquinasfan]

Whether grounds exist or not, the real question is who gets granted the annulment. Some folks do, and some folks don't. Kennedys do. Because the church is looking out for number one.

It's very difficult to generalize about annulments because the findings are supposed to be secret, as far as I know. In fact, I don't know whether Ted has received one. Do you? Regardless, the grounds probably exist.

[ClearCase_guy]

Actually, I don't know Ted's situation. I do know that Joseph P. Kennedy got an annulment (maybe 10 years ago) after a long marriage with 2 children. I forget his "reason" but it seemed totally trivial to me -- yet he got the annulment with no trouble (Cardinal Law assisting).

[vanmorrison]

I believe that the third Fatima prophecy has not been fully revealed by the Church. I believe, as does the Blue Army, that the reason the third Fatima prophecy hasn't been revealed is that it foretells of a period of great heresy and schism within the Church unseen since the beginning of the Protestant Reformation. Further, the perpetrators of this heresy and schism will be that third of the clerical class who have abandoned the true Church and are working to destroy the Church by undermining it as an institution. This includes the travesties of Vatican II, "Ecumenism", "liberation theology", sexual perversity, equivocation about abortion and homosexuality, and all of the other examples we see of clerical cowardice, duplicity, and rapacity at the highest levels of the Church.

Let us pray!

[american colleen]

I love First Things and most especially "The Public Square" by Fr. Neuhaus.

BUT MY SUBSCRIPTION IS ALWAYS LATE!!! I haven't yet gotten the October issue.

Great article, polycarp, thanks for typing it up.

[american colleen]

To be fair, I don't know anyone who hasn't gotten an annulment who has applied for one in the Archdiocese of Boston.

[Froggie]

The Catholic Church long ago lost any moral authority it may have had. The bishops are too worried about being politically correct - afraid to offend and drive away donations?
The Church should be the voice of Morality in the morass of immorality so prevelant in our society - yet it's silence reverberates loud and clear.
I spent 15 years in Catholic schools, and can only imagine that the teachers I had would be mortified to find themselves in the Catholic Church that is the church of today!

[freekitty]

All those years and all that money spent by a friend of my parents to get back into the church due to a divorce. Was it a waste?

[Polycarp]

Was it a waste?

Not if they truly had a case for an annulment. That is a question only your friend, and ultimately God, can answer.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

Please tell me more about Cardinal Bernadin. I am at a Catholic Center (at a university, guess which one), that looks at Bernadin kindly, because he really supported the Center. I know he was theologically liberal, but how liberal? Info and links would help. God Bless

P.S. Nothing accusatorial, I've heard some of the rumors, and since he is no longer alive to defend himself as the the veracity of it, I would prefer evidence of cold hard stated facts on matter of Church Theology (I am not minimizing the accusations, I guess I am just inclined to leave the Dead in peace).

[Polycarp]

thanks for typing it up.

LOL! See post # 8. Sitetest and I already did this comedy routine.

[Polycarp]

Thread: The Beginning of The End of The Bernardin Legacy & The Many Faces of Cardinal Bernardin

[A-teamMom]

Ted Kennedy, Jesse Jackson, Dick Gebhardt, Bill Clinton, Al Gore and more used to be pro-life. In the case of Kennedy, I am looking at a quote from 1971 where he states that life, even at its earliest stages has the right to be recognized and born. (My thanks to nickcarraway on a 6/7/03 post).

What "changes" the minds of these slimy politicians is money... buckets of it from the abortion industry and its lobbyists. Society and the media have sold nearly two generations of Americans lies about human fetuses and even those who know better seem to turn away in indifference.

Will the Church take a tougher stand and show morally incoherent Catholic politicians the door instead of the Eucharist? Unlikely at this point, IMO. It's up to the faithful to rise up and be counted. If you support abortion or pro-abortion politicians, you have no business coming to Christ's table. Why should there even be a need for the group Priests for Life? That should tell us what a mess the hierarchy is in today.

[A-teamMom]

Thanks for the ping. We do need answers.

[A-teamMom]

I read some of the thread you referenced. I was in Bernadin's parish in Chicago from 1990-1992. I was married in Holy Name Cathedral. They wouldn't even let my grandfather sing at my wedding, but it is alright to have a homosexual choir?

I was completely unaware of any of the political machinations of that parish. I was young and not as active. I cannot recall, however, even one sermon on the evils of abortion.

[wideawake]

I'll tell you what I know, as someone who spent six years in the Archdiocese of Chicago and taught a confirmation class.

(1) Cardinal Bernardin was very careful not to make any theologically controversial statements.

He meticulously cultivated the image of a great uniter. He sponsored Jewish/Christian dialogue (good idea, but limited in practice) and started something called the "Catholic Common Ground Initiative" which was supposed to put orthodox Catholics into dialogue with apostate organizations (like We Are Church, etc.) in order to reach "common ground."

(2) With the exception of St. John Cantius parish and Masses sponsored by Opus Dei, I never saw a normal Mass celebrated according to the rubrics.

The Cathedral of the Holy Name, his Cathedral, was one of the worst offenders.

While his sermons were exceedingly bland and devoid of content, various sermons preached by others from his pulpit were full of heretical ideas (implied approval of artificial birth control, implied approval of sodomy, etc.)

The teachers and materials I worked with in my confirmation class were uniformly heterodox and disturbing. His chancery did not even respond to my complaints - so I set aside the assigned material and simply taught from the Catechism.

(3) Bernardin was the chief proponent and formulator of the "seamless garment" or "consistent ethic of life" movement. This movement set back the pro-life movement in the Church severely by equating capital punishment with abortion and thereby diluting the focused pro-life message.

It was suggested again and again by the "seamless garment" people that the Church forbids capital punishment, that the death penalty is as great a tragedy as abortion etc.

(4) Cardinal Bernardin gave much encouragement to the sodomites by allowing Dignity USA to operate freely and hold mass meetings in his diocese, he allowed his clergy to officiate at their proceedings and did nothing when they held unofficial Masses at his own cathedral.

At his funeral, the music was provided, at his request, by the Windy City Gay Men's choir.

Cardinal Bernardin did not openly teach heresy - that might have threatened his job and his clout.

What he did do was encourage his heterodox subordinates, permit heterodox groups to operate unchallenged in his diocese and to lead two movements that encourage moral Indifferentism and doctrinal Indifferentism.

[Desdemona]

It's very difficult to generalize about annulments because the findings are supposed to be secret, as far as I know. In fact, I don't know whether Ted has received one. Do you? Regardless, the grounds probably exist.

I don't know the details, but yes, the first marriage was annulled and from all reports there were plenty of grounds, starting with her alcoholism (she was more unstable than he was) and other addictions that she wouldn't address. Not to mention his. It was done VERY quietly, though.

The nephews - I'm not sure if there were legitimate grounds or not. Nobody's supposed to know unless either of the parties says something.