Cardinal: Pope in "a bad way"

Reuters/Fox News ^

[Dog]

German Cardinal Says Pope 'In a Very Bad Way' Tue September 30, 2003 08:23 AM ET BERLIN (Reuters) - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the German head of the Vatican body which oversees doctrinal matters, was quoted on Tuesday as saying Pope John Paul was in very poor health and the faithful should pray for him. "He is in a very bad way," Ratzinger told Germany's Bunte magazine in an interview. "We should pray for the pope."

Ratzinger, who heads the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, told the magazine that the 83-year-old pope had taken on too much, but he was unable to stop him.

The increasingly frail pope was particularly weak earlier this month on a trip to Slovakia and needed help reading his sermons. Last week, he skipped his general audience because of what the Vatican said was an intestinal problem.

Ratzinger's private secretary, Georg Gaenswein, said it was amazing how the pope, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease, kept going.

"He can't walk and stand anymore but he is a hero for the faithful. The fact that he doesn't give up despite his illness makes him even more credible," Gaenswein told Bunte.

He said the pope would not give up traveling. "When he is no longer allowed to travel, then dear God will come for him," Gaenswein said.

The leader of the world's one billion Roman Catholics, who marks his 25th anniversary next month, appointed 31 new cardinals on Sunday, possibly putting his last stamp on the group that will one day choose his successor.

[OldFriend]

Remember that red material being lowered from the window. The Pope stepping into view and his voice booming over the square. Something I recall to this moment.

I was there in the Spring of 1969.

[John O]

Scripture says nothing like that. It does say, however, that the Church is one body, not many.

Part A: Scripture says that Paul was lead of the Spirit to go various places. Scripture also says that God is not a respecter of persons, That is, what he does for you he'll do for me, what he expects of Paul He expects of us. Each of us is directed to serve where He places us. How does a priest know he is supposed to be a priest? God calls him to that ministry. How do I know that I'm to serve at my pentecostal church? God called me to that ministry. Either all or called or none are called.

Part b: Correct. I included (church) more as a description of the particluar segment of the body of Christ rather than as a distinct identity. I consider all Christians (both Catholics and Protestants) as part of the same Church even though we attend different churches.

My point is that Scripture commands us to trust men, or at least submit to them in obedience if they are placed over us.

And yet we are to study to show ourselves approved unto God. If the pastor is not being scripturally accurate, and cannot defned in the scriptures why he is inaccurate then why should we trust him. Trust God, verify all others.

[Cronos]

Germanicus, please use the word Muslim instead of Arab. There are many Arabs who are Christian: Catholic, Chaldean, Assyrian, Syrian, Coptic churches are among the oldest congregations in the world. Also, most Muslims aren't Arab, they're Packistani, Indonesian etc.

[Petronski]

Most ironic of all, the concept of 'sola scriptura' appears nowhere in scripture.

[kstewskis]

The pope reminds me of my 82-year-old mother-in-law who since retirement has spent 20 solid years watching soap operas and playing the slots. < /sarcasm>

LOL!!

Sounds like my mom.

(except she's not 82, and she plays video poker :)

[Cronos]

The possible successors to Pope John Paul have been so numerous, I can't count, but I'm guessing that the new Pope will be non-European.

[John O]

Do the Jews and Christians have the ability to turn water to blood? Or call down plagues?

(See also post 75 by Freeper Campion)

Jeremiah Jr was the properant of the Jews and Christians idea. I lean more towards Elijah and Moses.

I cannot answer whether the Jews can do these things. I know that the Christian can. Scripture tells us that we will do even greater works than Jesus did if we believe. Our problem is that few of us believe with enough faith.

[biblewonk]

Yes it does. Everytime Jesus criticized people for not knowing the scriptures and trusting tradition or common sense the concept is repeated.

[Cronos]

Your comments on the 'dark ages' ring true.

[presidio9]

Well atleast you see that these things are not biblical. Communionschmunion, it' Mary that makes you guys so "special". Your beliefs about her are the very face of how RC doctrines are invented.

Again, your ignorance is astounding. Keep it up. I enjoy seeing you discredit yourself. It saves me the trouble of having to answer you ridiculous theological ramblings on a thread about a dying Holy man. I'm sure you have threads about your religion elsewhere in FR, and I am also sure that there are not a lot of Roman Catholics invading those threads and attacking your religion. Wanna know why? We could care less.

[Cronos]

Reposting your point again:

As for the Blessed Virgin Mary, this is another brutal misconception of the Catholic faith. There is no more "worship" of Mary going on in Church, than there is of dead love ones whose pictures hang on the wall at home. Catholics honor and praise her for her free will acceptance of the seed of the Holy Spirit -- not a small undertaking for a 12 year old girl in Nazareth. Catholics refer to her as the "co-Redemptrix" not as an "equal", but as an assistant. God's plan was for Mary to be the Mother of His Son. She was necessary for Jesus' birth just as the cross was necessary for Jesus' death. The Redemption could not have taken place without her (in God's plan) just as the world could not be redeemed if Jesus died of a natural cause. It's a mystery, and it's hard for most people to accept, but that's how it is. If anything, we give her eternal gratitude. Her power is in her holiness, not in any kind of "Divinity". It's the same holiness that you and I can share with others if we live our lives right. That's the beauty of it.

[presidio9]

The RC system is about as Biblical as, say, Mormonism.

In correct. It is all in the Good Book. You just interpret the Book differently. That is your right, but these silly theological discussions on a thread about a dying holy man are an indication of how insecure you so-called "Biblical Christians" really are about your faith.

[biblewonk]

Not enough patience or love to defend the faith huh? Islam is kinda like that too aren't they.

[bondserv]

Most ironic of all, the concept of 'sola scriptura' appears nowhere in scripture.

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Tim 2:15-16
15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

How are we to know the vain babblings of men, by searching the scriptures to test what they say.

Acts 17:10-11
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

[MineralMan]

"Well atleast you see that these things are not biblical. Communionschmunion, it' Mary that makes you guys so "special". Your beliefs about her are the very face of how RC doctrines are invented."

Your comments seem to me to be inappropriate in a thread about the impending death of a religious leader who represents scores of millions of Christians.

Can you not withhold your dislike for RCC beliefs for another thread? I'm sure there are threads more suited for a discussion of theological differences between sects of Christianity than this one.

[Petronski]

"Sola scriptura" is 'scripture and nothing else.' Nothing you have quoted supports this. Your first quote speaks of the wisdom to be found in the God-given scriptures. Your second quote refers to you:

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Your third scripture refers as much to the Catholic Church as yourself. The scriptures are read every day in Mass.

[biblewonk]

You guys sure have different ways of expressing yourselves. Is this good Catholic Bad Catholic or something? He picks a fight and you call me mean.

[Aquinasfan]

Dead people don't recieve omniscience at death.

Not omniscience. Only God has that. But can they hear our prayers and then offer them to God? Remember that they're in a glorified state outside of time. They're more "alive" than we are, and closer to God. Moreover, Scripture indicates that this is true:

Revelation 5:8

And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty­four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

[Campion]

The RC system is about as Biblical as, say, Mormonism.

You either don't know Mormonism or you don't know Catholicism, or both.

Mormonism denies the very concept of God by asserting that "God" was once a man, that multiple "gods" exist, and that men today can become "gods". It denies the Trinity by insisting that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three "gods". It denies salvation by grace by asserting that one can work one's way to "godhood". It also claims that the Bible contains errors introduced by Rome.

Catholicism affirms the uniqueness and uncreated nature of God, denies the possibility of multiple "gods", affirms the Trinity (and always has), and insists that salvation is through God's grace alone (cf Augustine, Aquinas, and Trent if you don't believe me). It also insists that the Bible is without error in everything God wishes it to teach. (cf Dei Verbum, Vatican II)

[Cronos]

Actually, I find it strange that many of the points brought up by the REformation leaders are either:
1. Refuted earlier in the first and second century debates and heresies.
2. If more worldly then they have already been incorporated in the church.

MArtin Luther DID clean out the church, as did Francis of Assisi 300 years before him, the difference being that St. Francis did not divide Christ's flock.