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Student expelled for loaning inhaler reaches deal with school (Zero Tolerance Alert)
ktrk ^

Posted on 10/11/2003 3:49:23 AM PDT by chance33_98

Student expelled for loaning inhaler reaches deal with school


Brandon Kivi was expelled from school for loaning his girlfriend Andra Ferguson his asthma inhaler.

By Chris Adams ABC13 Eyewitness News

(10/10/03 - CONROE) — A Conroe teenager got the nation's attention when his girlfriend had an asthma attack and he let her borrow his inhaler.

But he got more than that. He got expelled from school and a felony charge. It's all about 'zero tolerance' and it was the focus of a hearing that was supposed to take place Friday. But instead of that hearing, a deal was worked out.

"What they did to my son is unfair," said Theresa Hock, whose son was expelled from school. "I'm still angry."

She's the mother of 15-year-old Brandon Kivi, speaking after the Caney Creek High School student was expelled.

"It's basically a probationary expulsion that fits the letter of the law, but the most important thing is that he can attend school at Caney Creek High School next week," said Caney Creek Principal Greg Poole.

"I was expelled, but I'm home schooled (now), so I won't be coming back to Caney Creek," said Kivi. "That's final. I hope the principal hears this, too."

Kivi suffers from asthma, as does his girlfriend 15-year-old Andra Ferguson. When she suffered an attack at school, Brandon loaned her his inhaler.

"I did need it and I still think he did the right thing," said Ferguson. "He was just doing good."

The school nurse reported him and he was arrested by police. He was accused of distributing a dangerous drug. Those charges have since been dropped.

Now the principal's announced a deal. "We contended all along that there were mitigating circumstances involved in this case. I believe that a fair resolution was reached," said Greg Poole.

Still, Brandon's mother isn't happy, and she hasn't ruled out a lawsuit against the district.

"I won, in a way," said Theresa Hock. "But what they done to my son was unfair. I'm still angry."


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: asthma; zerotolerance

1 posted on 10/11/2003 3:49:23 AM PDT by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
Zero tolerance = Zero intelligence. Damn fools. He may have saved the girl's life the attack had been severe enough. We need to immediately get rid of ALL administrators who can't think.
2 posted on 10/11/2003 4:03:32 AM PDT by Clock King
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3 posted on 10/11/2003 4:04:14 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: chance33_98
"I was expelled, but I'm home schooled (now), so I won't be coming back to Caney Creek,"

How many more times does this have to happen before the Educrats wake the f up?

Good on ya, son! You did the right thing!

4 posted on 10/11/2003 4:07:54 AM PDT by ItsOurTimeNow ("Forth now, and fear no darkness!")
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To: chance33_98
The headline is 'Reached a Deal', but it sounds more like capitulation and begging by the school.

"...but the most important thing is that he can attend school at Caney Creek High School next week," said Caney Creek Principal Greg Poole."

The principal is worried that he's going to lose his 5 grand a year by losing this student to home-schooling and he worried about the mother suing and telling her story in front of a jury.

"I was expelled, but I'm home schooled (now), so I won't be coming back to Caney Creek," said Kivi. "That's final. I hope the principal hears this, too."

Go to public school, save a life and get threatened with a felony conviction. Yup, that'll bring the little buggers through the door.

5 posted on 10/11/2003 4:26:49 AM PDT by Jabba the Nutt
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To: netmilsmom
ping
6 posted on 10/11/2003 4:57:16 AM PDT by chance33_98 (This tagline made from recycled ideas, no animals were harmed during the typing of it)
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To: Clock King
From what I understand, this is not what actually happened. The girlfriend did not have an asthma attack, they were both at the nurses office as the girlfriend had a head ache. The boy gave her his inhaler infront of the nurse. The boy had offered the inhaler to another student in the recent past and had received a warning. The facts belie this story. Zero tolerance CAN go too far, but this situation has not been reported accurately.
7 posted on 10/11/2003 5:03:19 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: chance33_98
Unfortunately, the zero-tolerance craze is not the result of some mental lapse on the part of the educrats. No, they know EXACTLY what they are doing.

One of the socialists' most important goals is to use people's virtues against them. If you punish people for their virtues (and also arbitrarily pubish people who haven't really done anything wrong) you have leveled the difference between virtue and vice, good and evil.

Zero-tolerence is not for the bad kid who pushes drugs or intentionally brings a weapon to school. Zero-tolerance is all about destroying the moral faculty in good children by punishing ethical behavior or punishing morally neutral behavior. It also undermines a child's ability to reason by subjecting the child to arbitrary punishments.

Consider, for example, the dilemma of a child who sees another child get injured in the schoolyard. The child who witnesses the accident runs and tells a teacher so that the injured child can get help. However, the child has just violated the "zero-tolerance" policy against running on school property. The child is interrogated like he is a criminal. He tries to tell the adults about the injured child, but the adults are more interested in the fact that the child who ran to get help broke a "zero-tolerance" policy against running. Ultimately, the child who tried to report an injury is punished and the injured child suffers complications because medical help was delayed because no one listened to the child who tried to help.

The child who was punished for trying to help another child will learn several valuable lessons:
1. Doing what you think is right can get you into trouble. It is safer to look the other way when someone needs your help.
2. Authority figures make no distinction between good and bad behavior, therefore questions about right and wrong are dangerous or irrelevant.
3. The adults who are "in charge" do not behave rationally -- they overreact to minor issues and ignore major problems. The child begins to question the usefulness or the possibility of rationality.
4. One lives at the "mercy" of arbitrary rules that are applied in an irrational manner. One never knows when one is "guilty" of some infraction, so one lives in constant fear of the arbitrary rules and those who make them.

Someone brought up in this soul-destroying system will likely lose the ability to make independent decisions and moral judgements. He will either grow up to be a frightened shell of a person who never questions anything because he "only follows orders," or else he will grow up to be a sadist who gives immoral, irrational orders. Zero-tolerance is just a way to condition children for the totalitarian system the left wants to impose on society.

8 posted on 10/11/2003 5:05:25 AM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (Lurking since 1997!)
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To: chance33_98
Zero tolerance is a reaction against idiocy and a guard against lawsuits. In this case, it is part of the attempt to keep drugs out of schools. Afraid that some teacher or principal will do something stupid they take the decision out of their hands with a "zero tolerance" policy that eliminates decision making.

In many cases the desire to prevent stupid decisions leads to one. It is the same mentality that created mandatory sentencing for certain crimes. Some judges, mostly liberals, make stupid decisions so the lawmakers take the options out of their hands.

We can't prevent stupidity and zero tolerance is a bad idea.
9 posted on 10/11/2003 5:06:25 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all things that need to be done need to be done by the government.)
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To: Clock King
"We need to immediately get rid of ALL administrators who can't think."

I agree, only I believe they can think. For whatever reason, some people love abusing power and throwing their weight around, so naturally they are attracted to political correctness, which gives them the opportunity.

10 posted on 10/11/2003 5:07:01 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: chance33_98
I used to jokingly, hyperbolically, say that sending your kids to government school should be considered child abuse.

I'm not sure it's a joke, or hyperbole, any more.
11 posted on 10/11/2003 5:07:27 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (In for the monthly deal since 3 quarterlies ago - support Free Republic!)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
Perzackly.

Although, I believe it's more of a union-driven thing. The more failures in schools, the more "remedial" teachers, psychobabblers, etc., Thus more dues-paying and party-line voting members, and thus more power.
12 posted on 10/11/2003 5:09:17 AM PDT by P.O.E.
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To: Dudoight
If true, it is indeed a different set of circumstances. Do you have a source for this totally different version of the story?
13 posted on 10/11/2003 5:09:26 AM PDT by Samwise (There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
You make some good points. Yeah, socialists do not want the "masses" thinking for themselves and making their own decisions.
14 posted on 10/11/2003 5:10:08 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
Have you read Terry Goodkind's novels? I highly reccomend them; you guys think alike.
15 posted on 10/11/2003 5:15:14 AM PDT by patton (I wish we could all look at the evil of abortion with the pure, honest heart of a child.)
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To: Samwise
I saw it on one of the Fox shows yesterday. There was a person from the school district on. The reporters ought to get the 'FACTS'. I just think there are a lot of people who are ticked at the ZERO tolerance attitude and they are pushing an agenda to put it in a bad light. I don't think zero tolerance is a bad thing. There are just too many parents who don't want johnny to suffer the consequences of his actions. I see nothing wrong with character building and following the rules.
16 posted on 10/11/2003 5:18:14 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: P.O.E.
Although, I believe it's more of a union-driven thing.

Of course there is that element -- the unions, the ambulance-chasing lawyers, those who want to build bureaucratic empires, politicians who claim that they can make everyone "safe." I don't deny their power, but they are just fellow-travellers trying to profit from the system. Ultimately, however, "zero-tolerance" is being orchestrated by those who have a totalitarian agenda.

17 posted on 10/11/2003 5:22:32 AM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (Lurking since 1997!)
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To: Dudoight
A similar report of the additional information was made on a local DFW newscast lastnite.....ie, previous offers to other students to use the device, followed by warnings from school staff, along with the girl not having an attack at the time of this incident.
18 posted on 10/11/2003 5:24:55 AM PDT by DKM
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To: Jabba the Nutt
The principal is worried that he's going to lose his 5 grand a year by losing this student to home-schooling

I'm sure it's much more than 5 grand, probably almost double that, or at least 7 something grand.

19 posted on 10/11/2003 5:26:24 AM PDT by FrdmLvr ("No more is the image of America one of strong, yet benevolent peacekeeper.)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
It also reminds me of the thug "protection racket" shakedown. All those groups you mention purport to be "keeping us safe", as long as you toe the line - pay up and shut up. Stand up against them, and you are in their cross-hairs.
20 posted on 10/11/2003 5:36:24 AM PDT by P.O.E.
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To: Clock King
Much agree. But given the epidemic of Commie and other liberal idiots running around loose pretending to be Americans, how many administrators could we find.

Sometimes, even patriots and the character in my mirror can do really dumb things.

But this one really takes the cake.

I hope the whistle blowing nurse has had her head examined or at least feels robustly chastened.

It seems like we are becoming more like China--no one is willing to make a command decision and bear the risk of sanity.
21 posted on 10/11/2003 5:42:47 AM PDT by Quix (DEFEAT her unroyal lowness, her hideous heinous Bwitch Shrillery Antoinette de Fosterizer de MarxNOW)
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
How many more times does this have to happen before the Educrats wake the f up?

Well, when they do wake up, the consequence will not be to fix their own house, it will be to force you to use public schools by making homeschooling difficult and restrictive.

22 posted on 10/11/2003 5:46:43 AM PDT by Fzob (Why does this tag line keep showing up?)
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To: P.O.E.
It also reminds me of the thug "protection racket" shakedown.

Excellent point. It is corrupt on many levels. And it always enrages me when I hear some racketeer speak a bunch of moral platitudes while he is picking someone's pocket.

23 posted on 10/11/2003 5:50:01 AM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (Lurking since 1997!)
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To: Quix
yeah, yeah, yeah. The children can do not wrong. if we call them on infractions we are commies. It is obvious this boy loves to test the limits and his mother backs him on it.
24 posted on 10/11/2003 5:50:40 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Dudoight
You are barking up the wrong tree.

I did not read in-depth on the story. I take it at face value.

I don't know anything about the other areas of the son's life.

But if all he did was the helping his girlfriend bit--your comment is somewhat off the wall.

If he routinely tests limits, the helping his girl-friend thing was still an honorable thing to do.

I've never been one to molly coddle rebellion or defiance. Have often caused unnecessary problems erring too far in the opposite direction.

I encourage you to bark up a more reasonable tree for your assertions than mine. Given my realities, you make youself look very foolish, given to knee-jerk responses or just silly.
25 posted on 10/11/2003 6:03:30 AM PDT by Quix (DEFEAT her unroyal lowness, her hideous heinous Bwitch Shrillery Antoinette de Fosterizer de MarxNOW)
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To: Quix
In this reply section there are further facts on this boy's behavior and the 'girlfriend's' actual 'problem'. I guess it was my error to assume you read them and discounted them. Have you aprised yourself of the 'rest of the story' yet? Do you still hold with your initial comments?
26 posted on 10/11/2003 6:38:14 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Dudoight; Wilhelm Tell
The Bible itself says the letter of THE LAW kills but the Spirit brings liberty.

I think Wilhelm Tell is more correct in this broad area.

I'd much rather err in the direction of excess stupidity instead of excess straight-jackets.

I think the bottom-line destructiveness will end up less.
27 posted on 10/11/2003 6:50:16 AM PDT by Quix (DEFEAT her unroyal lowness, her hideous heinous Bwitch Shrillery Antoinette de Fosterizer de MarxNOW)
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To: Quix
OKAY, whatever. You are right, correct, noble, etc., etc.,.
28 posted on 10/11/2003 7:08:01 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Clock King
I got to thinking yesterday after hearing this for the first time.
In some cases such as this one, don't provisions of the ADA trump any moron application of "Zero Tolerance"?

Home schooling is not enough. That school district should pay painfully.

29 posted on 10/11/2003 7:23:09 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
I think you're reading WAY too much into this.

First off, I think zero tolerance is ludicrous and should be abolished.

However, trying to put myself into an educator's shoes ... I'm not one, but I have two siblings who are and we talk often about education issues ... is it not more basically a response to (a.) parents who think their little angels' ca-ca doesn't stink being ready to sue schools/teachers/districts/etc. at the drop of a hat over every little thing and (b.) civil rights pros ready to sue schools/teachers/districts/etc. at the drop of a hat if a case involving a minority student is handled one iota differently than a case involving a white student?

30 posted on 10/11/2003 7:41:22 AM PDT by GB
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To: Dudoight
I saw it on one of the Fox shows yesterday. There was a person from the school district on

In other words, you've got jack.

"a person from the school district" plu-eeze. The same school district proclaiming "they've reached a deal" to cover the fact that they caved completely.

If it's a "deal", just what has their former student agreed to do for them? zilch!

31 posted on 10/11/2003 7:44:43 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy ("Conscience is the little voice inside of you that says someone might be watching" HL Mencken)
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To: Dudoight
Christ Himself said only The Father was Good.

I still don't know how rebellious etc. the son was/is. It's hard to tell from the little I've read.

I'm also skeptical about whether or not the girl was having an attack. She could have sneezed or wheezed or looked googoo eyed and the guy responded with a generous offer designed to win her favor more. She may have had an attack and the distortions occurred afterward. We weren't there. And I'm skeptical of even a lot of first hand observer's stories these days.

IF the guy routinely tweaked authorities in more or less every way he could by relentlessly crowding the limits--it certainly adds an important detail to the story.

I would still think there either were or should have been or should quickly have been created some other options in response.

Meat axe's do not make good people handling tools unless one wants genocide. All the more true with teenagers.

BTW, are you routinely this cheeky with your family members and teens in your social network?
32 posted on 10/11/2003 8:23:13 AM PDT by Quix (DEFEAT her unroyal lowness, her hideous heinous Bwitch Shrillery Antoinette de Fosterizer de MarxNOW)
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To: GB
My wife was a SPED teacher - she is now a stay-at-home mom.

I asked her about this, because my daughter has BAD asthma. Like, the drop dead kind.

The wife says our schools let the kids carry epi pens and inhalers, as long as they have a script. None of that "leave it in the nurses office" junk.

You might want to tell your siblings - if my daughter died because she was denied access to her rescue medicines, I would not sue them for murder, or reckless endangerment, or malfeasence, or the thousand other crimes that they would be guilty of.

I would take much more direct action.

Just a thought.

33 posted on 10/11/2003 4:14:32 PM PDT by patton (I wish we could all look at the evil of abortion with the pure, honest heart of a child.)
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To: Quix
It's called reality orientation. Yep, raised 4 terrific kids, have 7 grandkids. All law abiding, spiritually grounded, pretty successful tribe. No one has all the answers in rearing kids.
34 posted on 10/12/2003 10:29:33 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Oztrich Boy
The person on Fox, as I recall was NOT employed by the school, she was a physician in the school district. What boggles my mind, and it shouldn't I guess, is the press ignoring the conflicting facts, preferring to make a victim out of the kid. It is an example of what is going on in our culture. If the truth of the matter had been reported, it would NOT have made national news. A kid acted out, as he had done in the past, and got called on it. Poor little gellow. His 'girlfriend' and mother supported the little turkey in his warp of the story. He was responsible for his infraction....but, typical of today's societal leanings, we ignore that and make 'authority' the evil doer. Amazing.
35 posted on 10/12/2003 10:48:47 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Dudoight
CONGRATS ON YOUR SUCCESS W KIDS.

Don't see enough of that these days.

I find that persistently, the first 6 years of life are still soooooooooooooooooooo critical. Succeeding with teens seems to happen in the first 6 years or it's too easily uphill in the teen years.

It has been interesting to me. I've always heard and for years accepted--and still accept it slightly in theory--that bad kids could come from good parenting.

But I've never seen it. Never.

Have always been able to trace it back to very critical flaws, deficits, losses etc. in the first 6 years of life. ALWAYS.

Aren't many NEVERS and ALWAYS's in complex human things.
36 posted on 10/14/2003 12:20:32 PM PDT by Quix (DEFEAT her unroyal lowness, her hideous heinous Bwitch Shrillery Antoinette de Fosterizer de MarxNOW)
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