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The "Bible Alone" is Not Enough
Catholic Family News ^ | July 1995

Posted on 03/15/2004 6:40:12 PM PST by narses

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To: PetroniusMaximus
How does that deny that Our Lord taught many things NOT written? How does the Sola Scriptura crowd deal with the fact that the entire canon wasn't complete during the first century?
61 posted on 03/15/2004 8:14:40 PM PST by narses (If you want OFF or ON my Catholic Ping list, please email me. +)
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To: narses
The fact that protestant clergy abuse children at about the same rate, somtimes higher, than their Catholic brethern might be of interest to you.

Citation please...

(BTW, even if it were true, we practice church discipline. We wouldn't move them to an unsuspecting congragation)

I have completed the lint extraction thank you very much. I'm now off to iron my BDUs so I can defend your right to worship as you please and look good while I do it.....

62 posted on 03/15/2004 8:14:42 PM PST by Gamecock
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To: Life is Sacred
Bad doctrine breeds bad priests. That was my point.
63 posted on 03/15/2004 8:15:54 PM PST by Gamecock
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To: Gamecock
Thank you for your service. As for "church discipline", some practice it (as do some Diocese in the RCC) and some don't (sadly as too many have not in the RCC). Go, defend us and pray that you get the strength to defend your faith as vigourously as you do our freedom, for as much as I value our freedom, I value the Kingdom of Heaven more and I pray you and I meet there someday.
64 posted on 03/15/2004 8:17:17 PM PST by narses (If you want OFF or ON my Catholic Ping list, please email me. +)
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To: narses
***How does that deny that Our Lord taught many things NOT written?***

We know the Lord did many things not recorded in the Bible -because the Bible tell us so.

***How does the Sola Scriptura crowd deal with the fact that the entire canon wasn't complete during the first century?***

People are responsible for the scripture they have, like the law, the prophets...

"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

...Moses and the Prophets...

If you won't listen to Scripture NOTHING will save you!

65 posted on 03/15/2004 8:19:26 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: narses
Thank you for your service.

It's my calling. I am but a humble servant.

Go, defend us and pray that you get the strength to defend your faith as vigourously as you do our freedom, for as much as I value our freedom, I value the Kingdom of Heaven more and I pray you and I meet there someday.

As do I. I am sure we will.

66 posted on 03/15/2004 8:19:47 PM PST by Gamecock
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To: DouglasKC
"But when that tradition contradicts the bible then scripture has to win out otherwise we're stuck with the opinions of a bunch of men who may or may not have the guidance of the holy spirit.

Unless those men happen to be successors of the apostles, who have been called together to address such things. But yes, I agree with you if "those men" you speak of reside outside of the true Church and therefore have no legitimate right to interpret scripture.

67 posted on 03/15/2004 8:21:23 PM PST by Life is Sacred (I'm sick of the "change the channel" defense!!!)
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To: Gamecock
You asked:
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WORCESTER, MA. A former pastor Andrew J. Bierkan, 54, at the First Congregational Church of Sutton who now heads a church in Ohio has been indicted here on charges of unnatural rape of a child and posing a child in a state of nudity. He is now pastor of St. Paul United Church of Christ in Cincinnati, according to Worcester District Attorney John J. Conte. (Worcester Telegram & Gazette, August 13, 2003)
Ex-Sutton pastor charged with rape of girl from church

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MINNEAPOLIS, MN-An organization calling itself SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests) will file a lawsuit against an Episcopal priest who abused a California youngster years ago, and still serves in a parish today. David Clohessy, 46, a national director of SNAP told VIRTUOSITY that he could not name the priest pending the suit, but would release the name shortly. Clohessy did express one serious concern. "I fear that some 400 ex-Roman Catholic priests will surface in other denominations including the Episcopal Church." (Aug. 2, 2003)

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Eddie Thomas, pastor of St. Luke Baptist Church in Ringgold, LA., is arrested and charged with indecent behavior with a juvenile, aggravated incest and pornography involving a juvenile. (the Shreveport Times, July 17, 2003)
Police seize videotape alleged to show sex with child

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South Austrailia, AUS. A South Australian police task force into child sex abuse within the Anglican Church had identified 217 victims and 48 possible offenders, police said today. However the number of victims could rise to more than 400 as investigations continued, Police Commissioner Mal Hyde said. Mr Hyde today likened the scale of police investigations into child sex abuse to those for the infamous Snowtown bodies-in-the-barrels murders in 1999. (The Age, July 16 2003)
Major sex abuse uncovered in Anglican Church

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Vicar Rev Robin Everett of Castle Donnington, Leics, is convicted of indecently assaulting two young girls. (UK Telegraph, June 7, 2003)
Vicar faces prison for sex assaults

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Lake Wales, FL. The pastor at the Church of the Nazarene has been charged with sexually assaulting a male 17-year-old youth leader three times in 2001. The Rev. Gene Francis, 52, of Lake Wales, was arrested Tuesday and charged with unlawful sexual activity with a minor. (Sarasota Herald-Tribune, June 4, 2003)
Lake Wales minister arrested in sexual assault case

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Tuscon, AZ. The Rev. David Valencia, 47, assistant pastor of a Pentecostal church is expected in court Wednesday on rape charges issued by Pennsylvania authorities. In Pennsylvania, Valencia was an assistant pastor at Christ Church at Grove Farm, an interdenominational church that uses Anglican liturgy. The pastor of Christ Church, the Rev. John Guest, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that Valencia was dismissed in late 2001 because he was found to have pornography on an office computer after he was warned about a similar incident months earlier. (Tucson Citizen, May 31, 2003)
Rev. David Valencia allegedly had sex with a 17-year-old girl he was counseling

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PORTLAND, OR. Church volunteer pleaded innocent to 26 counts of rape, sodomy and sex abuse. Derrick Mayberry was indicted by a grand jury on Tuesday and entered the plea on Wednesday. Mayberry, 23, was arrested May 15 on accusations of raping two teenage girls he met while volunteering at the New Beginnings Christian Center in northeast Portland. The victims were 13 and 15 years old. (KOIN TV, May 29, 2003)
Church Worker, Coach Enters Plea In Sex Abuse Case
Church volunteer, coach faces sex abuse charges

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Queensland, AUS. In the small town of Seymour, townspeople are shocked to learn that the late Anglican Fr. Sapsford molested dozens of alter boys while he was married with children, and after his serial molestation at another church was revealed in 1996. There are allegations by the parents of the victim boys that the Archbishop covered up the original allegations. The church is not compensating victims while they consult with legal counsel. Anglican Father Walliker says he is not shocked as he has seen this before in the Anglican Church. (ABC online, May 8, 2003)
Cover-up left paedophile to prey on Vic altar boys

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NEWARK, N.J. A convicted sex offender who was named pastor of a city church several weeks ago has been removed from the post. Shiloh Baptist Church leaders had hired the Rev. Chavalis T. Williams in mid-March, even though they knew he had pleaded guilty in Florida to charges of child abuse and using children in a sexual performance. (Newsday, May 7, 2003)
Convicted sex offender removed as pastor of Newark church

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Unidentified clergyman in Norway defends himself by accusing boys of pestering him to provide pornography to them and pulling their pants down for him. Criminal defendants in Norway are not identified by name. (Nordlys, April 30, 2003)
Clergyman says boredom led him to child porn

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An associate pastor of a San Fernando Valley chapel was sentenced to 32 months in prison on Tuesday for failing to register as a sex offender. Ilger, a former second-grade teacher, was convicted in 1988 of molesting four students in his San Luis Obispo classroom. After being released from jail, Ilger and his family moved to Los Angeles, where he took a position with Hope Chapel of the Valley in Canoga Park. "We've lived and learned a painful lesson," the Rev. Jeff Fischer of Hope Chapel said outside court. Fischer has said he and about 30 church elders knew that Ilger had molested young girls before he was hired.
Sentencing (Associated Press, April 3, 2003)

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Marty A. Hynes, 33, is charged with eight counts of criminal sexual contact of a minor, three counts of criminal sexual penetration of a minor and one count of attempted criminal sexual contact of a minor. Hynes was a youth pastor at the First Assembly of God church when the alleged incidents occurred, between July and December 2001. (Las Cruces Sun-News, March 24, 2003)
Trial of former youth pastor begins

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Milpitas, CA. A secretary to a LDS Bishop has admitted to sexually molesting four children, and will be sentenced to 14 years in prison. Craig Allen Harward, 54, pleaded guilty Monday to three counts of lewd and lascivious acts on children under the age of 14, and no contest to a fourth count of the same charge, Four of the case with the most convincing evidence involved four boys -- two of whom were 10, one 11 and another 13 years old at the time they were molested. (SAan Fransisco Chronicle, March 12, 2003)
Child molester pleads guilty

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Visalia, CA -- A 38-year-old Visalia man who was a leader in a local Jehovah's Witness congregation may face up to 16 years in prison on charges of sexually molesting a 12-year-old congregation member. Louis Anguiano served until last year as an elder at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses at 5310 Caldwell Ave. He is accused of continuous sexual abuse, over a two-year period, of a girl who attended the same congregation. (The Fresno Bee, January 30, 2003)
Visalian who was a Jehovah's Witness leader accused by girl, 12.

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Tinley Park, IL. For the second time in two weeks, a Baptist pastor from New Lenox has been charged with molesting a child — and prosecutors said they are looking for more victims. Dennis Larry Shaw, 53, of the 2100 block of Sanford Drive, New Lenox, was charged Monday with aggravated criminal sexual abuse of a 16-year-old girl, according to the Will County state's attorney's office. On Jan. 31, Shaw was arrested on similar charges after a parishioner's 12-year-old daughter alleged she was fondled by the pastor inside the church between October and December, prosecutors said. (Daily Southtown, February 11, 2003)
Minister again charged with molestation

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Dayton, OH. A Trotwood minister, whose lawyer said he has been a "sex addict" since age 10, sought treatment rather than face trial in a Brookville police-run Internet sting that presented a virtual 14-year-old boy in a chat room. But a Montgomery County judge denied his plea for treatment Tuesday. Turner’s attorney, Dwight Brannon, wrote "He had his first sexual experience with another male at the age of 19 while in college. Shortly after he began surfing the Web . . . his addiction slowly began to grow." Turner had been pastor of Anchor Community Church, 38 S. Fairgreen Drive, for seven years when he was arrested last summer. (Dayton Daily News, 01.29.2003)
Minister arrested in police-run Internet sting

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Lyons, NY. Former Lyons Minister Sentenced to 1 1/3 -3 years in State Prison. The retired minister of the Mount Zion Baptist Church in Lyons was sen-tenced to 1 1/3 to 3 years in state prisonon Tuesday (1/14). Grady O. KempSr., age 65, ofWadley, Georgia, pled guilty to a reduced crime of Course of Sexual Conduct Against a Child in the 2nd Degree-a Class D Felony on December 12, 2002, sparing the step-daughter from testifying. Kemp, when completing his prison term, must regis-ter as a sexual predator. He had been indicted by a Wayne County Grand Jury in July of last year, for one count of Sexual Mischief in the 1st Degree, 4 counts of Rape in the 2nd Degree, 2 counts of Rape in the 3rd Degree, 4 counts of Sex Abuse in the 2nd Degree, 2 counts of Sex Abuse in the 3rd Degree and one count of Sodomy in the 2nd Degree, involving a step daughter. Grady had been arrested on July 31, 2002. It is alleged that the sexual activity with a step daughter began when the girl was 9 years old and continued until she was 14. "He had sexual contact with the girl hundreds of times," said Wayne County District Attorney, Rick Healy. The incidents came to light when the girl, now 16 years old, began fidgeting and praying. The next day the girlbegan crying and screaming at a family gathering and said she could not hold it back any longer. The girl's mother and Kemp's former wife, Lynda Kemp, said she and her daughter now live in Panama City, Florida. According to Healy, Grady had served as pastor of the church for almost 20 years. "He just retired last year and moved to Georgia," said Healy. Grady still owned a house at 122 Ford Street in Newark, where the alleged crimes took place. (Times of Wayne County, Jan. 27, 2003)

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A Tulare County minister admitted to molestation charges on Monday. Sabala worked as a minister at the Four-Square Church in Dinuba. (ABC30.com, Jan 27, 2003)

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Fort Pierce, FL. Pastor Kenneth Johnson, recently convicted of having sex with a minor, and Friendship Missionary Baptist Church -- where he reportedly continues to minister -- were named in a sex-abuse lawsuit filed Tuesday. Johnson, 39, is scheduled to be sentenced Friday on one count of unlawful sexual activity with a minor. He faces up to 15 years on the second-degree felony. (The Tribune, January 22, 2003) .
Johnson to be sentenced Friday on 1 count of unlawful sexual activity with minor

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Riviera Beach, FL. A prominent minister, his church and deacon have reached a $600,000 settlement with a mentally disabled man who accused the minister of rape. The Rev. Thomas Masters, pastor of the New Macedonia Church of Riviera Beach, and Church Mutual, insurer for the church, negotiated the settlement with the man, according to his attorneys and court papers filed Monday. The man, who has the mental capacity of a 7-year-old, attended New Macedonia and accused Masters of coercing him to smoke crack cocaine and then raping him twice on church property over Thanksgiving weekend in 1991. (The Palm Beach Post, January 14, 2003)
West Palm Beach minister, church pay $600,000

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Athens, GA. Ralph Tulk, 63, was arrested Tuesday and charged with five counts of child molestation for allegedly inappropriately touching five children at Holy Trinity Lutheran Church over several years. He was superintendent of the Sunday school program when some of the alleged molestations took place and was treasurer of the church until last month, according to police and the church. Dickerson and many other residents of this Northeast Georgia city -- most of whom were willing to share their thoughts about the case but not be quoted -- said they worry about the church, but aren't yet convinced of the allegations. "This is America, and you are innocent until proven guilty," Dickerson said. (MSNBC.com, Jan. 11, 2003)
Town reacts to molestation charges

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New Bedford, MA. An Attleboro Jehovah's Witnesses minister, Ralph Heroux, 74, yesterday pleaded not guilty to charges of two counts of rape of a child and two counts of indecent assault and battery on a child under 14. (The Standard Times, Jan. 2, 2003)
Minister charged with child rape

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PROVINCETOWN, RI. The pastor of an Episcopal church in Provincetown has resigned and left town after admitting he sexually molested a teenage boy more than 25 years ago while assigned to a Maryland parish, church officials said. On Thursday, a 48-year-old man told the Baltimore diocese that he was molested by Barasda, who was a priest in the victim's parish. The abuse allegedly started in 1966, when the victim was 14 years old, and continued for two years, Arnold said. (The Boston Globe, 12/25/2002)
Episcopal pastor admits molestation

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Long Island, NY. James Taylor, also known as Bishop J. Andre Taylor among his Provision of Promise Pentecostal Church congregation, was charged with second-degree sodomy and second-degree sexual abuse. (Newsday, December 24, 2002)
2 Pastors Charged With Abuse

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Bryan, TX. A pastor was arrested and released from jail Monday night after he was charged with aggravated sexual assault of a child. Ford was indicted earlier this month based on an allegation he had sexually assaulted a teenage boy who went on a trip with the pastor to the Texas Panhandle more than two years ago. Ford was pastor from the New Zion Missionary Baptist Church in Bryan where he had served for 17 years. (Bryan-College Station Eagle, Dec. 24, 2002)
pastor accused of assaulting Bryan boy arrested

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Long Island, NY. Assistant pastor Rasta Wright, a church elder at Provision of Promise Pentecostal Church, was arrested for allegedly sexually abusing a 14 yeard old homeless child. Wright, 25, in Central Islip, was charged with second-degree sodomy. (Newsday, December 24, 2002)
2 Pastors Charged With Abuse

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SUMTER, S.C. - A former youth pastor here has been charged with forcing a 12-year-old girl to perform oral sex in a hospital bathroom, police say. Troy Glenn Clark, 34, of Lexington, N.C., has been charged with criminal sexual conduct with a minor. (The State, Dec. 12, 2002)
Youth pastor charged with criminal sexual conduct with a minor

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TEMECULA, CA. Six years ago, Becky J.'s life revolved around Temecula Valley Baptist Church. She worshipped there, went to school there, and even worked after hours two days a week at the school to earn pocket money. That's where she met 40-year-old Pastor Kerry Clyde Martin. But at 14, Becky didn't understand the concept of street smarts, she said. She didn't know when the man befriended her what the future held. "He listened to my problems and would tell me how right I was if I had a fight with my parents," she said. "I always thought he meant it in a pastor way, or like a father." Little did Becky know that as a cleric at two previous churches -- one in Maryland and one in Orange County -- Martin had already been accused of sexually molesting at least three other girls, all 14. Little did she know the friendly, charismatic minister was taking the first steps that would culminate in his repeatedly raping the girl over the next two years. (The Californian, Dec. 8, 2002)
Child sex abuse reaches far beyond Catholic Church, experts say.

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Idaho Falls, ID. An area pastor is charged with inappropriately touching a teenage boy. Idaho Falls police charged a long-time religious leader with five counts of lewd conduct with a minor. 46-year-old Steven Michael Sheridan, the former pastor of St. Paul's United Methodist Church has been arrested-- this after police recorded two recent phone conversations between the victim and Sheridan. Sheridan was the pastor of St. Paul's United Methodist Church five years ago when the alleged crimes occurred. Since then, he's been pastor of another church. The victim who was 13 at the time, and is now 18, said Sheridan was like a mentor. They took trips together, and during those trips, Sheridan touched him sexually. One time, the pastor allegedly touched the boys genitals saying he was checking for cancer. (KPVI, Dec. 6, 2002)
AREA PASTOR CHARGED WITH INAPPROPRIATELY TOUCHING A TEENAGE BOY
Former Pastor Sex Abuse Case Moves Forward

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Conviction of Anthony Shafer, pastor of a non-denominational church, for statutory rape of eleven-year-old is upheld. (COURT OF APPEALS OF OHIO, EIGHTH DISTRICT, Dec. 5, 2002)
Court Opinion

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MOUNT KISCO, NY. Parishioners at the Presbyterian Church of Mount Kisco yesterday were coming to grips with revelations that their former pastor was charged by the presbytery with sexually abusing eight boys. The eight charges, unveiled at the presbytery's regional meeting at Webb Horton Memorial Presbyterian Church in Middletown, outline abuse of boys under 18. Among the allegations are that Miller invited a child into the shower with him, that he had oral sex with a minor on numerous occasions over two years and that he made inappropriate sexual remarks and propositions. (THE JOURNAL NEWS, December 5, 2002)
Mount Kisco parishioners react to abuse charges

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CHELSEA, VT. Pastor faces trial or stiffer sentence for child molestation. A judge on Tuesday denied a plea agreement for a former Newbury pastor accused of child molestation. The decision means Rev. Joseph A. Rinaldi may go to trial or receive a stiffer sentence on charges of molesting children while he was pastor of the Newbury Bible Church and principal of the Newbury Christian School between 1993 and 1998. ``The crimes you committed are heinous crimes,'' said Vermont District Court Judge Amy Davenport. ``They are crimes that have left long lasting scars on their victims. And it is because of that, in the court's view, the court cannot accept the plea agreement.'' Rinaldi had pleaded guilty to five counts of lewd and lascivious conduct with a child in exchange for a prison sentence of two years. He admitted fondling three boys in his care. (The Associated Press, December 03, 2002)
http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/beec6c67c
Newbury Pastor Pleads Innocent To Molestation

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Terry Eads, a church youth pastor of Evergreen Alliance Church, was sentenced to prison for raping a 4-year-old boy; and another church pastor, Eads, 18, hung his head through the sentencing hearing before District Judge Stewart Stadler as his 6-year-old victim's parents testified about the damage Eads wreaked. Said the boy's father, Eads "raped my son with me in the house. He raped my son in our church" probably 40 times, the tearful father said. "He should go to prison for a minimum of 15 years." The abuse lasted for two years, from 2000-02 when Eads was 15-17 years old and the boy was 4-6. (Nov. 22, 2002, Daily Interlake)
pastor in court on sex crimes

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Garry Toavs, 58, pleaded guilty to molesting a girl, in separate court hearings Thursday. Toavs, pastor of Evergreen Alliance Church, was originally charged with sexual offenses with two girls, ages 12 and 5. In exchange for his guilty plea, one of the charges was dropped. (Nov. 22, 2002, Daily Interlake)
pastor in court on sex crimes
His church asks for prayers for Toavs in prison

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A Clermont County youth minister has been sentenced to jail for sexually abusing teenage boys who were under his supervision during the year 2000. Anthony Waters, 35, of Williamsburg will spend six months in the Clermont County jail and will spend three more years under probation, supervised by Judge William Walker. (WCPO TC, Nov. 19, 2002)
Youth Minister Sentenced To Jail For Abusing Young Boys

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South Kingstown, New Zealand. 53-year-old Bruce C. DiMaria,the pastor of the Church of the Nazarene in Wakefield who also served as a teaching assistant in the South Kingstown School District's Farm School for learning-disabled students was arrested Friday by North Kingstown police and charged with three counts of second-degree sexual assault for alleged incidents involving a 17-year-old female student who has autism and cerebral palsy. (NKStandard Times, Nov. 17, 2002)
Youth Paster charged


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Denver, CO. Denver police arrested a 26-year-old youth minister with St. John's Church of God in Christ after a 15-year-old member accused him of sexual assault.(November 15, 2002, Rocky Moutain News)
Youth Paster arrested
News Report

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ANDERSON, S.C. Youth Minister William Bell of Mount Tabor Baptist Church pleaded guilty to two counts of criminal sexual conduct with a minor 2nd degree, four counts of lewd acts upon a child under sixteen and one count of contributing to the delinquency of a minor. An investigation revealed two male victims, the youngest was 10 years old. (WASV TC, Nov. 14, 2002)
Youth Minister Pleads Guilty To Sexual Conduct With Minors
Man Had Illegal Contact With Boys At Anderson Church

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Tulsa, OK. Son Minh Rockstroh, 48, was arrested Saturday on three counts of rape by instrumentation and one count of lewd molestation of a child. He was jailed about 2 a.m. Saturday and is being held in lieu of $200,000 bail. The allegations have no apparent link to his work as a schoolteacher but to his leadership of a small religious group called Church Life, Tulsa police said. The victim and her mother met Rockstroh through Church Life, whose members meet in each others' homes, Detective Chuck Haywood said. "There is not a pastor of the church, but everyone considered him to be the guy in charge," Haywood said of Rockstroh. During an interview with police, Rockstroh admitted that he had molested the girl on three occasions, jail records show. (Tulsa World, 11/12/2002)
Church Leader Arrested

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Tagbilaran, Philipines. A HIGH school sophomore has formally accused a pastor of sexually molesting him repeatedly since July 6 this year. The 16-year-old boy, a native of Jagoliao island,Getafe town identified the suspect only as one Pastor Jun de Jesus of the New Tribes Mission in Tagbilaran City. (The Bohol Times, November 11 - 17, 2002)
Teener accuses pastor of sexual molestation

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LINCOLN, NE. Three lawsuits have been filed against a Lutheran church school for alleged sexual abuse by former officials, including a minister who served as principal. The lawsuits against St. John Lutheran Church in Seward seek millions of dollars for the alleged abuse. The Lincoln Journal Star reported in Saturday's editions that two lawsuits were filed in Lancaster County District Court on Friday by unnamed plaintiffs who alleged they were abused by longtime principal David Mannigel. Mannigel, a Lutheran minister, apparently killed himself last year. (ABC News, November 2, 2002)
Lutheran Church sued over abuse by Pastor Mannigel


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LINCOLN, NE— Three lawsuits have been filed against a Lutheran church school for alleged sexual abuse by former officials, including a minister who served as principal. The lawsuits against St. John Lutheran Church in Seward seek millions of dollars for the alleged abuse. The other lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court in Lincoln on Wednesday by T. Mark Kraft, a Colorado man, for claims of abuse by retired teacher Arlen Meyer. That lawsuit seeks $1 million. (ABC News, November 2, 2002)
Lutheran Church sued over abuse by Pastor Meyer


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DETROIT, MI. A minister at an east side Detroit church admitted Friday that he had sex with a 15-year-old girl, leading to her pregnancy. Prosecutors accused Delton Benson of having sex with the unnamed girl in August 2000. A warrant was issued for his arrest last March charging the 32-year-old minister at Straight Street Baptist Church with two counts of third-degree criminal sexual conduct. (sexcriminals.com, Nov. 1, 2002)
Minister arrested
Detroit Pastor Has Dropped Out Of Sight

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First Baptist is a congregation that reveres its pastor. And so a dozen church elders decided unanimously that pastor Rev. Lawrence French, who says he is innocent, should remain as pastor. Convinced that the 72-year-old pastor could not have committed the alleged offenses, they also concluded that it would be unfair to French to notify other members of the church about the allegations. (The Boston Globe, November 1, 2002)
Paster Convicted by Synod, but Congregation doesn't believe Pastor is guilty
Congration wants Paster to Remain


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OLNEY, Ill. If things had gone as planned, 35-year-old Leslie Mason would have preached the keynote sermon at this year's annual meeting of the Illinois Baptist State Association Nov. 7. Instead the former pastor of Olney Southern Baptist Church faces 10 counts of criminal sexual assault involving two teenage girls who attended his southeastern Illinois congregation. (October 24, 2002, ABP)
Baptist Pastor charged with criminal sexual assault of two teenagers
http://www.baptiststoday.org/btns11_8b.html


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Incriminating statements by a Bible instructor charged this spring with molesting two boys raise the prospect that he had other victims, a Salinas police sergeant said Friday. Rev. Wesley Craig Parnell, 41, was arrested June 14 at his townhouse on the 1800 block of Cherokee Drive on suspicion of molesting an 8-year-old boy. Parnell was charged a month later with molesting a 15-year-old boy three years ago. The victim is now 18. (The Californian, October 26, 2002)

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Lawrenceville, GA. A Brookwood High School junior says her youth minister touched her sexually two years ago when she was 14. He insists he didn't. Now a Gwinnett County jury must decide whether Shannon Rhodes, 33, is guilty of child molestation while he worked as youth minister at Sunrise Baptist Church in Lawrenceville. The girl detailed her relationship with Rhodes during more than two hours on the witness stand Tuesday. She said there were three separate incidents during which he exposed himself to her, tried to French kiss her and placed her hand to fondle him. (The Atlanta Journal and Constitution, 10-23-2002)
Grand jury hears molestation case against ex-youth minister

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Austin, TX. A former youth minister faces up to 20 years in prison after he was convicted of nine counts of child sexual abuse. Charles Richard Willits, Jr., 44, a former youth minister at Great Hills Baptist Church, was convicted Saturday. Sentencing was scheduled for Monday. (October 18, 2002; Abilene Reporter-News)
Youth Paster Convicted in Criminal Court


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DENVER -- A former Denver school teacher and Episcopal priest accused of sexually assaulting at least two boys in his Denver home was sentenced Thursday morning to 24 years in prison. Donald Shissler, 68, pleaded guilty to the charges in August as part of a plea bargain. He was originally charged with two counts of sexual assault on a child, two counts of sexual assault on a child by a person in a position of trust, one count of sexual assault on a child -- pattern of abuse, and one count of sexual exploitation of children. Based upon evidence found in his home earlier this summer, there may be as many as 20 additional victims, detectives said. Police said they seized hundreds of pornographic pictures and videos from Shissler's house when he was arrested. Rappaport concluded in her sentencing remarks that Shissler is a sexual predator who clearly committed crimes against young boys for almost 18 years, including sexually assaulting a boy he adopted. Prosecutor Kerri Lombari called Shissler's case "the most disturbing case I have ever worked as a prosecutor." (October 17, 2002)

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Fresno, CA. A southwest Fresno pastor has been arrested on suspicion he had a four-year sexual relationship with a teenage boy nearly 20 years ago, Fresno police confirmed Monday. Calvin Eugene Moore, 45, a pastor at King Solomon Baptist Church, was arrested for an alleged sexual relationship he had with the boy, police said. Moore remains in the Fresno County Jail in lieu of $550,000 bail. (The Fresno Bee; October 16, 2002)
Paster Arrested


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MANHATTAN, KS. -- A judge ruled Thursday that a man who was allegedly molested years ago by a Manhattan minister will be allowed to testify at the minister's trial, where he will face charges that he molested a teen-age boy.

Brian N. Savage, of Manhattan, was bound over for trial in July. He faces two counts of aggravated criminal sodomy, two counts of criminal sodomy, two counts of aggravated indecent solicitation of a child and one count of aggravated indecent liberties with a child.

According to court records, Savage, 44, met the then-13-year-old victim at the Seventh Day Adventist church in Manhattan where Savage was a pastor and the victim attended. Savage took on a fatherly role, according to court documents. After a relationship developed, Savage began engaging in sexual acts with the boy, the records say. In at least one instance, Savage gave the boy $100 for oral sex. Some of the molestation took place at the church. (The Topeka Capital journal, Oct. 12, 2002
Molest: Manhattan minister to stand trial for allegedly molesting teen boy from his church
http://cjonline.com/stories/101201/kan_pastaccuser.shtml

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Philadelphia, PA. In the late 80s, Harbaugh attended St. Paul's United Church of Christ in Fleetwood, Berks County. Harbaugh was 15 years old when she attracted the attention of the youth minister, Valerie Stoop, who was 27 at the time. Harbaugh says Stoops' alleged abuse began with holding hands, progressed to kissing and then fondling. (WPVI Philadelphia, Oct 4, 2002)
Accused Minister hired by another Church

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TISHOMINGO, OK. Kentucky pastor accused of raping a 12-year-old Oklahoma girl has surrendered to Johnston County officials. The Rev. Chadwick L. Keathley, associate pastor of Ark of Mercy Church of God in Winchester, Ky., responded Tuesday to an arrest warrant issued Aug. 26. Prosecutors charged Keathley, 27, with lewd molestation, first-degree rape and rape by instrumentation. He was released after posting a $25,000 cash bond and an Oct. 22 preliminary hearing was scheduled. The alleged incident occurred during summer 2000 at a Church of God gathering at Camp Bond Youth Camp near Tishomingo. (The Winchester Sun, Sept. 2002)
Pastor surrenders to Oklahoma officials

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MUSKOGEE, OK. A part-time minister for two United Methodist churches was charged Thursday on accusations that he raped a teenage girl while the two were on their way to church functions. Woodroe Wilson admitted to fathering the girl's 8-month-old child, authorities said. (Tulsa World, 08/16/2002)
Minister charged with rape of teen

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Cape Coral, Florida. The FBI has issued an arrest warrant for a former minister and radio evangelist after seizing child pornography, weapons and other items from his home, records show. Troy Cecil Snowden, 59, was indicted last week by a federal grand jury on charges of possessing child pornography, wire fraud, transporting a child for illegal purposes and possession of a shotgun. (August 11, 2002), AP.
Evangelist on child abuse charges

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HENRYETTA, OK. -- A former Dewar First Baptist Church music director worked briefly at another Baptist church before his arrest on sexual battery complaints last week. Aaron M. McDonald, 23, was hired in June at the Calvary Baptist Church in Sulphur, said the Rev. Brent Parsons. Asked if the hiring came after June 11, Parsons said, "Yes." McDonald is accused of touching the genitals of a 15-year-old boy who, with another friend, was staying the night at McDonald's mobile home in Henryetta on June 11, according to an affidavit for McDonald's arrest. (Tulsa World, 08/03/2002)
Accused Dewar minister had been hired in Sulphur

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Walker County, AL. John Anderson, a Carbon Hill First Baptist preacher charged with three counts of first-degree sexual abuse of juveniles under the age of 12, pleaded guilty to all charges in a Walker County court. Earlier the same day Anderson also entered a "best interest" guilty plea in another court on charges stemming from that area. During his tenure as a minister, he had also reportedly been a pulpit preacher at Southside Baptist in Russellville, Natural Bridge Baptist, West Blocton Baptist, Hartselle Baptist and other churches in Mississippi. (Daily Mountain Eagle, Aug. 2, 2002)

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COLUMBUS, GA. An associate pastor in Columbus has been sentenced to 10 years in prison after pleading guilty to two counts of child molestation and one count of aggravated child molestation. Michael Krug, an associate pastor at Calvary Baptist, pleaded guilty to the charges at the Muscogee Superior Court. (The Augusta Chronicle, July 28, 2002).
Minister gets 10 years for child molestation

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Milwaukee, WI. Youth minister Kurt Danskin for the United Methodist Church of Whitefish Bay pleaded no contest Thursday to a charge that he exposed himself to a 17-year-old boy who spent the night with him at his congregation-owned home last August. (Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, July 25, 2002)
Youth Minister pleads not guilty
Listing of Danskin at former church

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Jackson, MS. Curtis Hudson, associate pastor for youth at First United Methodist Church, Hudson is indicted for one count of rape of a child, three counts of rape and seven counts of sexual battery by an authority figure. He is accused of raping and having sexual contact with a preteen and two teenage boys from May 2000 to June 2001. (the Oak Ridger, July 16, 2002)
youth minister remains in jail
Former youth pastor turns self in on sex abuse charges

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Butler County, PA. A pastor faces charges for allegedly aiding and abetting a parishioner accused of sexually assaulting a 5-year-old Allegheny Township girl. Jeffery F. Cox, pastor of the Fellowship Baptist Church in Allegheny Township, obtained airline tickets for accused molester Jeremy James Whitmire, and helped Whitmire enroll in a home for troubled young men in Texas, court documents said. (Butler Eagle, 07/16/02)
Pastor charged with aiding abuser

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Sacremento, CA. A 48-year-old man was convicted Wednesday in Sacramento Superior Court of bigamy, spousal abuse and molesting a daughter of one of three women he was living with.The prosecution said that Gonzalez told people he was a bishop with the Mormon Church and was later excommunicated when the church learned of his multiple wives, but that was never substantiated. He later formed his own church, calling it Jesus Christ of the United World Order, Cochrane said. (Sacramento Bee, July 11, 2002)
Man guilty of bigamy, molestation, spouse abuse

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Baton Rouge, LA. A Baton Rouge minister is of jail on a $15,000 bond Wednesday following his arrest on molestation charges. Danny W. Johnson, Jr. was a youth pastor at an unknown church here in Baton Rouge where he molested a juvenile girl from 1997 to 1999, according to police. (July 9, 2002, WBRZ)
Minisiter arrested on molestation charges
WBRZ report

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Salt Lake City, UT. A child sexual abuse victim filed suit against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Monday, accusing Mormon leaders of providing a safe harbor for the pedophile who abused him. The plaintiff, identified only as A. Doe, claims defendant Mitchell Blake Young abused him between 1987 and 1992, when he was 6 to 12 years old. Young was convicted in 1993 of sexually abusing the boy and is serving a term of up to 15 years in Utah State Prison for the crime. Filed late Monday in 3rd District Court, the suit names Young and his father, Gordon Young. (THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE, July 2, 2002)
Victim Sues LDS Church, Sex Abuser

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LDS Bishop Luis Gonzales has been charged with 20 counts of child molestation, battery, rape, bigamy, stalking, and fraud. The victim, alias Tammy Doe alleges, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has been fully aware of this man 's illegal activities since 1998 and failed to do anything until the child molestation became public." The trial is being held in the Sacramento County Court House, Department 26 located on H Street. Nancy Cachrane is the Deputy District Attorney for Sacramento County, and is prosecuting this case against Luis Gonzales. (Tapestry Against Polygamy, July 2002)

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RALEIGH, N.C. A Southern Baptist missionary who was fired for abusing children in Indonesia is working at a Raleigh church where the minister knew of his past. (June 28, 2002; AP)
Molester Paster Knowingly Hired by another Church


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NEW PORT RICHEY, FL -- The mother of a 5-year-old girl has filed a lawsuit against the Gospel Outreach Church of New Port Richey, alleging that her daughter was molested because church officials failed to screen the background of a church volunteer. Alfonso Morales, 54, pleaded guilty last month to molesting the girl on a church bus in May 2001. He also pleaded guilty to molesting a second 5-year-old girl in the church parking lot in November 2000. He was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Morales was previously convicted in New York of sexual battery on a child. He was released from prison in 1992 after serving five years. (June 25, 2002, St. Petersburg Times)

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Lake Wales, FL. William Benjamin Wells, 36, pastor of Christian Harvest Ministries, was arrested on June 6 and charged with two counts of molestation on a victim less than 12 years old, two counts of sexual assault on a victim under 18 years of age, and one count of sexual battery on a victim under 12 years old. (June 20, 2002; Lake Wales News)
Paster Wells arrested
News Report

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Gastonia, SC. GASTONIA - A local youth minister has been charged with three counts of taking indecent liberties with a minor, police said Thursday. Marty Eugene Meadows, 34, worked as a minister at the Sunset Lane Baptist Church in Bessemer City, police said. Meadows appeared before a magistrate and a judge Wednesday, and was released after posting a $3,000 bond. "There are multiple victims," said Capt. Tony Robinson, a spokesman with the Gaston County Police. "He was touching them in an inappropriate manner." (June, 14, 2002, The Charlotte Observer)
Youth minister faces sex charges
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/states/north_carolina/counties/gaston/3466742.htm

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Kansas City, KS. Reginald G. Robinson, 24, a resident of Kansas City, was charged by the Jackson County Prosecutor on Monday, May 20, with one count of statutory rape, three counts of statutory sodomy and one count of child molestation.According to the police report, most of the incidents of molestation occurred in the basement of the Beth Judah Ministries Church of God In Christ. (The Call, June 14, 2002)
Church Youth Leader Charged In Molestation Of 13 Year Old

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Baton Rouge, LA. A Baker minister accused of molesting four children is being sought after failing to surrender to East Baton Rouge sheriff's officials Thursday. Benny McFarland, 41, 9240 Pettit Road, Baker, may be "holed up," Sheriff's Col. Mike Barnett said. "He's very aware of the indictment," Barnett said. "We'd like to get him in custody." The indictment accuses McFarland of performing sex acts with four children from 1990 through 1998. The children ranged in age from 8 to 16. Prosecutor Kim Brooks said McFarland initially met the children while working as a minister at Hightime Evangelistic Center in Baker. He was arrested in 2000 after he was accused of improperly touching a boy in his church office between 1993 and 1999. (The Baton Rouge Advocate News, 06/14/02)
Minister sought on child-sex counts

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Gastonia, SC. On Wednesday, Lincoln County pastor Dewey "Eddie" White was found guilty in district court of propositioning a 15-year-old girl, prosecutors said. The charge was soliciting to commit a crime against nature, said Kay Killian, a Lincoln County prosecutor.(June, 14, 2002, The Charlotte Observer)
Pastor of Heavenly View Full Gospel Baptist Church
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/states/north_carolina/counties/gaston/3466742.htm

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Waco, TX. A central Texas pastor faces jail time, after admitting to molesting a ten year old boy. John William Hayden was pastor of a church near Waco. Yesterday, he struck a deal, pleading guilty to two counts of indecency with a child. (KFDX, June 4, 2002)
PASTOR ADMITS TO MOLESTATION

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Dekalb, GA. A DeKalb County judge sentenced Pastor Troy Brown of the Greater Anointed Tabernacle Worship Center to 70 years in prison on 25 counts of child molestation. Prosecutors say Brown abused a 15-year-old boy who attended his church. (May 30, 2002, WSB-TV)
Troy Brown sentenced to 70 years
DeKalb minister remains defiant after 70-year sentence in molestation case
Troy Brown sentenced on 25 counts DeKalb minister remains defiant


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ST. PETERSBURG, FL. A recently retired Lutheran pastor may no longer minister in any capacity in the wake of allegations of inappropriate behavior with female parishioners, his bishop said. About the same time the Rev. Bruce Wilder left his 400-member congregation in March, multiple female church members came forward with accusations, said Bishop Edward R. Benoway of the Florida-Bahamas Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. An allegation concerning a girl was passed on the to St. Petersburg Police Department which is investigating, Benoway said Friday. (Naples Daily News, May 26, 2002)
Retired Lutheran pastor accused of inappropriate behavior

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Columbus, GA. After four days of testimony and lawyers' arguments, the child molestation case against the Rev. Wilmer D. Williams will remain without a verdict through the Memorial Day weekend, Muscogee Superior Court Judge Robert Johnston decided Friday. (May 25, 2002, Columbus Ledger-Enquirer)
Report in Cincinnatti Enquirer
Minister on trial

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Arraignment for The Rev. Gary Carsonhull, a Methodist minister charged with 18 felony counts of child molestation, will be at 1:30 p.m. today in Long Beach Dept. D, the District Attorney’s office announced. The 57-year-old minister is charged in case No. NA052740. (Long Beach, CA. May 24, 2002)
Methodist Minister Charged with criminal child molestation
Methodist Minister Charged with 18 counts
Long Beach Report

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COURT OF APPEALS MORROW COUNTY, OHIO upheld district court conviction of youth minister Timothy L. Cook of Mt. Gilead Church of Christ as a "sexual predator." (Court opinion, May 16, 2002)
Court Opinion

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England. Brother Stair Arrested: Criminal Sexual Conduct & Breech Of Trust. Mr. Stair's wife Teresa claims "Brother" Stair admits to having sex with several "women" at the community. The claims and charges revolve around the fact that the women in question were underage, which means they were under the age of eighteen when Ralph Stair allegedly had sex with them. "Brother" Stair is sixty-nine. (May 16, 2002 )
Youth Paster charged


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Eatonton, GA. The child molestation case against Nuwaubian leader escalated Monday in state and federal court. In Eatonton, a Putnam County grand jury issued a 116-count indictment of the 56-year-old leader of the United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors (The Atlanta Journal and Constitution 05-14-2002)
Cult Leader Ignored His Own Rules
FBI: Kids from 4 to 18 abused in sect

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LOUISVILLE, Kentucky (AP) -- A woman said she and her husband have been excommunicated from the Jehovah's Witnesses after speaking out against the church's handling of their daughter's allegations of sex abuse by another member. (May 11, 2002, AP)
Jehovah's Witnesses expel parents of alleged abuse victim
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/11/jehovahs.witnesses.ap/index.html

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Portland, OR. A 77-year old practicing minister at New Jeruselum Pentacostal Church in Cornelius, is charged with sodomizing and sexually abusing young members of his congregation in 2001 in the Gaston area. (KGW TV, May 9, 2002)
Local Minister Arrested for Sex Abuse

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RAPID CITY, SD. The Rev. James A. Forsythe, a Protestant minister in South Dakota, has not registered as a sex offender as required by law. Forsythe, 47, pleaded guilty in 1989 to attempted indecent liberties with a child. A Johnson County district judge said Forsythe was a pedophile and ordered him to have no contact with teen-age boys - a restriction the judge later lifted. SForsythe, who told The Kansas City Star on Friday that he did not know he needed to register in South Dakota, pleaded guilty Dec. 8, 1989, to attempting indecent liberties with a child. Since January 2000, Forsythe has been minister of the Metropolitan Community Church of the Black Hills in Rapid City, S.D. The church is part of a growing denomination that serves predominantly gay and lesbian worshippers. Forsythe said he had never told the whole congregation of his past. (5/5/2002, AP)
Protestant Minister unregistered as sex offender in South Dakota
Protestant Minister unregistered as sex offender in South Dakota

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LAKESTATION, Ind.- William A. Beith, 28, was charged Thursday with coercing and enticing a minor into sexual acts and transporting a minor across state lines for sexual purposes in connection with the disappearance of Gabrielle Grace Marshall. (May 4, 2002; The Associated Press)

FBI searching for a former Baptist school principal who sexually abused an 11-year-old girl.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/principal010504.html

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Syracuse, NY. David Gardiner, the Pastor of Liverpool Baptist Church, was arraigned on sexual abuse charges on Wednesday. Gardiner, 43, eluded a police swat team and dozens of sheriff’s deputies for more than eight hours from around 5:00 pm Tuesday night into Wednesday morning. Sheriff Kevin Walsh says Gardiner is accused of having sexual contact with a girl who is under age 11. Court documents show the allegations do not involve anyone outside the Gardiner home. According to Sheriff Walsh, the investigation began when Gardiner’s wife Deborah contacted his department. Gardiner also taught Bible study and economics classes at the Baldwinsville Christian Academy; he has been fired from the job in the wake of the sex abuse allegations. (May 1, 2002, WTVH news)
Minister flees law after sex abuse charges
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/news/0501story115953_news.shtml

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A Christian pastor in Indonesia was sentenced to four years imprisonment for sexually abusing seven refugee children under his care, officials said Tuesday. Saderah Sudiro, a Protestant clergyman with the Foundation For the Village Bible Society, was found guilty Monday of molesting refugee children ages 14 and 15 in his house in Solo in Central Java, said prosecutor Ika Ria Wati. "For more than a year he abused the minors who sought refuge in his foundation," said Wati. (Associated Press, April 30, 2002)
pastor gets four years for molesting refugee children

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JACKSONVILLE, FL. A businessman and deacon of First Baptist Church already accused of molesting a minor was arrested Thursday on charges he molested two other youths. Stephen Lee Edmonds, 44, was charged with five counts of lewd and lascivious assault, said David Sembach, Jacksonville police assistant chief of detectives. The victims were 14 and 15 years old, authorities said. He had been free on $50,000 bond following an arrest April 15, when he was charged with molesting a 16-year-old and sending him Internet messages discussing sexual practices. The 16-year-old alleged that Edmonds improperly touched him twice in 2000. (Naples Daily News, April 26, 2002)
Former Jacksonville deacon facing multiple molestation charges

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Encinitas, CA. Michael Skoor, 55, and a former pastor at Calvary Lutheran Church in Solana Beach, is accused of molesting the boy and his younger brother, both of whom are elementary school age. He has pleaded not guilty to 30 counts, including committing a lewd act on a child, showing pornography to a minor and burglary. He remains jailed on $2 million bail pending a July 8 trial date. Skoor faces a possible 40 years to life sentence in prison if convicted on all counts. (04/23/2002, The North County Times)
Former pastor to stand trial on molest charges
(http://www.nctimes.net/news/2002/20020124/52517.html)
Former Paster jailed for committing a lewd act on a child
(http://www.nctimes.net/news/2002/20020423/52547.html)

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RIVERSIDE, NY. Ernest Lorch, the director of the Riverside Church youth basketball program, has voluntarily stepped down after the reports of child sexual abuse, the church announced Tuesday. (April 20, 2002), AP.
Report: Sex Scandal Brewing at Riverside Church

68 posted on 03/15/2004 8:26:11 PM PST by narses (If you want OFF or ON my Catholic Ping list, please email me. +)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Jesus is, on occasion, refered to as the "Angel of the Lord" in the OT.

How can you make this claim from the Bible alone. Or is your argument that the Bible is not enough for interpreting the Bible itself? I am confused by your posts and I suspect you have an interpretative method, but it is not readily apparent to me. Clarification would be welcome. How do come to your conclusion that Jesus is, on occasion, refered to as the "Angel of the Lord" in the OT?

69 posted on 03/15/2004 8:26:31 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Gamecock
"Bad doctrine breeds bad priests. That was my point.

Oh well since a large amount of Catholic doctrine is "bad", it would naturally follow that most if not all priests, bishops, monks and nuns are bad too. Probably even molestors. I'm glad you don't mince words.

70 posted on 03/15/2004 8:28:18 PM PST by Life is Sacred (I'm sick of the "change the channel" defense!!!)
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To: Life is Sacred
....the greatest act of deception Satan's ever foisted upon humanity. Just look at the chaos and division

Hmmm.  To think:  would Roe v Wade have passed if there was one Catholic faith; would gay marriage be something we're seeing before our eyes?  That opens an absolutely huge arena for speculation.  "Things that make ya go hmmmm."  FReegards!
71 posted on 03/15/2004 8:28:47 PM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: narses
You were just waiting to play that card, weren't you?
72 posted on 03/15/2004 8:29:43 PM PST by scarface367 (This tagline exists solely at the discretion of the poster)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
If you won't listen to Scripture NOTHING will save you!

You better be listening to something besides scripture, and you obviously are, because otherwise you don't know which books belong in scripture and which books don't. Scripture doesn't tell you.

73 posted on 03/15/2004 8:31:29 PM PST by findingtruth
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To: Gamecock
Bad doctrine breeds bad priests. That was my point.

Evilly CORRUPTED INTERPRETATION and DISOBEDIENCE of doctrine Gamecock.
74 posted on 03/15/2004 8:32:05 PM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: scarface367
He asked, I answered.
75 posted on 03/15/2004 8:34:34 PM PST by narses (If you want OFF or ON my Catholic Ping list, please email me. +)
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To: GirlShortstop
I suppose the wheels would have fallen off somewhere along the line, given human nature. It didn't take the Isrealites very long to cross the line and worship a golden calf and they had God in their midst for cryin out loud! The world would definitely be different if we were all united in faith. No doubt.
76 posted on 03/15/2004 8:37:42 PM PST by Life is Sacred (I'm sick of the "change the channel" defense!!!)
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To: Life is Sacred
Unless those men happen to be successors of the apostles, who have been called together to address such things.

I think that anyone who has God's spirit is a successor of the apostles.

But yes, I agree with you if "those men" you speak of reside outside of the true Church and therefore have no legitimate right to interpret scripture.

I would agree with that if by "true Church" you mean those who have the spirit of God and make up the body of Christ. :-)

77 posted on 03/15/2004 8:40:37 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: narses
A Bill Donahue Catholic League Shamrock to you.
78 posted on 03/15/2004 8:41:42 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: GirlShortstop
Man, these threads make me dizzy.
79 posted on 03/15/2004 8:44:10 PM PST by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: Siobhan
***How do come to your conclusion that Jesus is, on occasion, refered to as the "Angel of the Lord" in the OT***

Based on context...


"But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!"
"Here I am," he replied.
"Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

...you have not withheld from ME...

Jesus appears in the OT in what are called "theophanies". God appearing in the form of a man or angel. It is up to the context of the passage to conclude where it is Jesus or not. Another example of Jesus appearing in a visible form is...


"The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.... Then the LORD said, "I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son."

Angel in Hebrew can mean something like "messenger" as opposed to just a winged, celestial creature. Jesus, on occasion acts as God's messenger in thr OT. In the NT he is God's messenger Par Excellent!

80 posted on 03/15/2004 8:47:31 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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