Posted on 03/28/2005 8:28:07 PM PST by Ryan Bailey
This evening I had the distinct pleasure of initiating an outstanding discussion with Br. Harold Camping; a globally syndicated Bible Teacher, with whom I agree on many points ( but notably differ on the important tenets he promulgates on the present nature of the Church ).
Toward the beginning of the nine o'clock hour (EDT) Camping entertained a call on Freemasonry. He told the caller that Freemasonry should be withdrawn from, as should the Church in his teaching, because it is religious. His exact words were that it has "chaplains and burial rites" which typify religious institutions.
I went on the air at about 2145, EDT. I first greeted Br. Camping< warmly and cleared up a discrepancy based on a caller several weeks ago who had shown a fallacious "contradiction" in the Bible ( the old one about King Solomon's horses and stables ), and then told him that I was a member of several organizations which fell into the categorization he had depicted as under the judgement of God.
In time I went on to say that his requirements for a religion left much to be desired and I asked if he would consider the Congress or Local Police or Fire Departments religions; these all have chaplaincies and burial rites.
In the end Br. Camping said something I'd never heard him say before: "Now it's time for me to say I don't know". He did state that the chaplaincies would have to differ for the Masonic Lodge to be a religion and Congress not to be, but he made a terrible mistake in basically asserting that chaplains in civil services and legislative bodies serve little or no purpose.
In reality, unless I much mistake every congressional session is opened by the Chaplain.
This exchange served to further for many the thinking process on the equating of Freemasonry with a religion, which I have proven it not to be.
Religion, by the definition of convention, must have a clergy, scriptures, definitions of sin, salvation and afterlife; Freemasonry, of course, has none of these.
The Open Forum remains one of my favorite evening commute programmes and I value the scholarly achievements of Br. Camping, although we disagree on several important points.
He falsely predicts Christs' return.......he has failed in his past predictions!
IMO....beware of his 'teachings'.....
(Romans 10:17)
Why would ANYONE listen to ANYBODY who thinks they know the precise time of Christ's return? (Matthew 24:36)
Now...returning to the main point of this thread: I fail to see why Freemasonry would be incompatible with Christianity.
Where can I read or hear the discussion on Christians and Freemasonry? It's unclear when I go to the link provided.
My ex husband is into this. Glad this is posted so I can try to understand it. This guy says that ALL the churches are false, right? He also says the world will end in 2011, right?
He may be right about the tribulation period being here and now. Just look at what's happening to Terri Schiavo! I did a google search about this Camping guy. A lot of people say he's a whackjob but my ex husband is a smart guy (an architect) and he seems to have fallen for this Camping stuff.
If he is your ex, he can't be that smart. ;-)
Uh, Joseph Smith was murdered for taking the Masonic temple rites and making a new church with them. It was the Masons who forced Brigham Young and followers out west, as death is proscribed for taking these sacred not secret rites outside the temple.
Are there any Masons left. I thought they all became Mormons.
Occult Bump.
Links for the Masons murdering Joseph Smith and driving the Mormons west?
Decades ago when I received my temple recommend I contracted to paint a man's house and he was a Shriner. I'd been to Temple Square a couple years earlier.
His house was rather messy inside and in cleaning and straightening his Masonic stuff sorta fell on the floor.
The Masonic symbols were those I saw in Temple Square. His Masonic underwear was like the Mormon's underwear. Reading his books, the method of executing those who betrayed Masonic secrets were identical to executing Mormon infidels.
Since even then I could figure which was the cart and which was the horse, I began the long painful process of getting my family out of the LDS church.
I think the correct term is, "morsons, or mamons".:-)
"Freemasonry is a blend of Eastern mysticism revolving around the story of Harim Abiff.
Freemasonry is the opposite of Christianity.
Their hero,s are people like Albert Pike and Manley P Hall.
These two people talk about the "Serpent Power" of freemasonry.
I think we all know who the SERPENT is."
I must say they keep some interesting company then:
UNITED STATES PRESIDENTS: George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, William H. Taft, Warren G. Harding, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman and Gerald Ford.
UNITED STATES PATRIOTS: Francis Scott Key (wrote our National Anthem), Ralph Bellamy (wrote our Pledge of Allegiance), Paul Revere, John Paul Jones, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, Patrick Henry and many others.
MILITARY LEADERS: Generals John J. Pershing, George Marshall, Douglas MacArthur, Joseph Stillwell, Johnathon Wainwright, Curtis E. LeMay, Omar N. Bradley, Henry H. "Hap" Arnold, Claire L. Chenault, Mark Clark, James Doolittle, Admirals David G. Farragut (First Admiral of the U.S. Navy), Ernest J. King, Richard Byrd, J. Edgar Hoover (head of FBI) , Eddie Rickenbacker (pilot who shot down 21 enemy planes) and many others.
SPORTS: JOHN ELWAY, Grover C. Alexander, Cy Young, Jack Dempsey, Arnold Palmer, Tyrus R. "Ty" Cobb, Carl O. Hubbell, Christopher "Christy" Mathewson, Mordecai P.C. Brown, Gordon "Mickey" Corchran, Avery Brundage, Albert "Happy" Chandler, Branch Rickey, Rogers Hornsby, Knute Rockne and many others.
POLITICAL: Sir Winston Churchill, Randolph Churchill, Robert "Bob" Dole, John Glenn(see astronauts as well), Thomas Dewey, Everett Dirksen, Fiorello H. LaGuardia, John Marshall, Barry Goldwater, Hubert Humphrey, Sir John Alexander MacDonald (first Canadian Prime Minister) and others.
ASTRONAUTS: Ed "Buzz" Aldrin, John Glenn, Gordon Cooper, Don Eisle, Virgil Grissom, Ed Michell, Tom Stafford, Fred Haise, and Wally Shirra.
EXPLORERS: Hiram Bingham (Discoverer of Machu Picchu), James Bruce (Discoverer of the source of the Blue Nile), Adm. Richard E. Byrd, Christopher "Kit" Carson, William Clark; Merriwether Lewis, Sam Houston, Robert E. Peary and Charles Lindberg (first solo flight across Atlantic Ocean).
WORLD LEADERS: Emilio Aguinaldo (Phillippine Patriot and General), Miguel Aleman (Mexican President 1947-52), Eduard Benes (President of Czechoslovakia 1939-48), Sveinn Bjornsson (1st President of Iceland), Simon Bolivar ("George Washington of S. America"), King Charles XIII (King of Sweden 1748-1818), King Edward VII and King Edward VIII (Kings of England, 1901-10 & 36, respectively), Francis I and Francis II (Holy Roman Emperors, 1745-65 & 1768-1806), Frederick the Great (King of Prussia 1740-86), George I & George II (Kings of Greece, 1845-1913 & 1922-47), George IV & George VI (Kings of England 1760-1820 & 1820-30), Gustavus VI Adolphus (King of Sweden 1792-1809), Kamehemeha IV and Kemehemeha V (Kings of Hawaii (1854-63 & 1863-72) Leopold I (King of Belgium (1831-65), Peter the Great (Emperor of Russia 1689-1725), William I (King of Prussia 1861-88), William II (King of the Netherlands (1792-1849), William IV (King of England (1830-37) and many others.
RELIGIOUS LEADERS: Bishop Carl J Sander (United Methodist Church), Rabbi Seymour Atlas, Dr. James P. Wesberry (Former Executive director of the Southern Baptist Publication Sunday), The Reverend George W. Truett (President of the Southern Baptist Convention), The Reverend John A O'Brien, Ph.D. (Roman Catholic Priest and professor of theology at the University of Notre Dame), Cardinal Mariano Rampolla (Roman Catholic Cardinal), James C. Baker (Bishop, Methodist Church, organized first Wesley Foundation in U.S.), Hosea Ballou (Founder, Universalist Church), Robert E. B. Baylor (Baptist clergyman, founder of Baylor University), Preston Bradley (founder of the Peoples Church), Father Francisco Calvo (Catholic Priest who started Freemasonry in Costa Rica in 1865), Hugh I. Evans (National head of the Presbyterian Church, U.S.A.), Most Reverend Geoffrey F. Fisher (former Archbishop of Canterbury), Eugene M. Frank (Methodist Bishop), Reverend Dr. Norman Vincent Peale (Methodist Episcopal minister and author), Titus Low (President of Methodist Council of Bishops), Jesse Jackson (Operation P.U.S.H. and AME Baptist Church), and many, many other members of the Clergy.
ENTERTAINMENT: John Wayne, Harry Houdini, Richard Pryor, Gene Autry, Ernest Borgnine, Joe E. Brown, Bob Burns, Eddie Cantor, Duke Ellington, Irving Berlin, Louis Armstrong, Charles D. Coburn, William F. "Buffalo Bill" Cody, Donald Crisp, Roy Rogers, Cecil B. DeMille, Richard Dix, Douglas Fairbanks Sr., W.C. Fields, Clark Gable, Roy Clark, Nat King Cole, Arthur Godfrey, David W. Griffith, Oliver Hardy, Jean Hersholt, Al Jolson, Charles "Buck" Jones, Harry Kellar, Harold C. Lloyd, Tom Mix, Dick Powell, Will Rogers, Charles S. "Tom Thumb" Stratton, Richard B. "Red" Skelton, Paul Whiteman, Ed Wynn, Darryl Zanuck, August Ringling (Ringling Brothers Circus) and many others.
COMPOSERS: Irving Berlin, George M. Cohan, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, John Phillip Souza, Richard Wagner, Franz Joseph Haydn, Franz Listz, and many others.
INVENTORS AND SCIENTISTS: Samuel Colt (firearms), Sir Alexander Fleming (penicillin), Edward Jenner (vaccination) Simon Lake (first practical submarine), John L. McAdam (Macadamized roads) King C. Gillette (safety razor), Richard J. Gatling (gatling gun) and many others.
YOUTH ORGANIZATION FOUNDERS: Daniel Carter Beard (Boy Scouts), Frank S. Land (International Order of DeMolay), William Mark Sexton (International Order of Rainbow for Girls)
WRITERS: Robert Burns, Samuel L. Clemens (Mark Twain), Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes), Edward Gibbon (Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire), Edgar A. Guest, Rudyard Kipling, Alexander Pope, Sir Walter Scott, Johathan Swift, Lowell Thomas, Voltair and many others.
SCULPTORS: Gutzon Borglum and his son, Lincoln Borglum (together carved Mt. Rushmore National Memorial), Johann G. Schadow (Prussian Court Sculptor) J. Otto Schweizer and many others.
BUSINESS: Dave Thomas (founder of Wendy's restaurants), John Jacob Astor (financier), Lloyd Balfour (Jewelry), Lawrence Bell (Bell Aircraft Corp.), William H. Dow (Dow Chemical Co.), Henry Ford, Walter P. Chrysler, Alfred Fuller (Fuller Brush), King C. Gillett (Gillett Razor Co.), Sir Thomas Lipton (tea), Fredrick Maytag, Andrew W. Mellon (banker), James C. Penny, Charles Hilton (Hilton Hotels), George Pullman, David Sarnoff (father of T.V.), Leland Stanford (railroads - Stanford Univ.) and many others.
"Freemasonry is a blend of Eastern mysticism revolving around the story of Harim Abiff.
Freemasonry is the opposite of Christianity.
Their hero,s are people like Albert Pike and Manley P Hall.
These two people talk about the "Serpent Power" of freemasonry.
I think we all know who the SERPENT is."
I must say they keep some interesting company then:
UNITED STATES PRESIDENTS: George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, William H. Taft, Warren G. Harding, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman and Gerald Ford.
UNITED STATES PATRIOTS: Francis Scott Key (wrote our National Anthem), Ralph Bellamy (wrote our Pledge of Allegiance), Paul Revere, John Paul Jones, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, Patrick Henry and many others.
MILITARY LEADERS: Generals John J. Pershing, George Marshall, Douglas MacArthur, Joseph Stillwell, Johnathon Wainwright, Curtis E. LeMay, Omar N. Bradley, Henry H. "Hap" Arnold, Claire L. Chenault, Mark Clark, James Doolittle, Admirals David G. Farragut (First Admiral of the U.S. Navy), Ernest J. King, Richard Byrd, J. Edgar Hoover (head of FBI) , Eddie Rickenbacker (pilot who shot down 21 enemy planes) and many others.
SPORTS: JOHN ELWAY, Grover C. Alexander, Cy Young, Jack Dempsey, Arnold Palmer, Tyrus R. "Ty" Cobb, Carl O. Hubbell, Christopher "Christy" Mathewson, Mordecai P.C. Brown, Gordon "Mickey" Corchran, Avery Brundage, Albert "Happy" Chandler, Branch Rickey, Rogers Hornsby, Knute Rockne and many others.
POLITICAL: Sir Winston Churchill, Randolph Churchill, Robert "Bob" Dole, John Glenn(see astronauts as well), Thomas Dewey, Everett Dirksen, Fiorello H. LaGuardia, John Marshall, Barry Goldwater, Hubert Humphrey, Sir John Alexander MacDonald (first Canadian Prime Minister) and others.
ASTRONAUTS: Ed "Buzz" Aldrin, John Glenn, Gordon Cooper, Don Eisle, Virgil Grissom, Ed Michell, Tom Stafford, Fred Haise, and Wally Shirra.
EXPLORERS: Hiram Bingham (Discoverer of Machu Picchu), James Bruce (Discoverer of the source of the Blue Nile), Adm. Richard E. Byrd, Christopher "Kit" Carson, William Clark; Merriwether Lewis, Sam Houston, Robert E. Peary and Charles Lindberg (first solo flight across Atlantic Ocean).
WORLD LEADERS: Emilio Aguinaldo (Phillippine Patriot and General), Miguel Aleman (Mexican President 1947-52), Eduard Benes (President of Czechoslovakia 1939-48), Sveinn Bjornsson (1st President of Iceland), Simon Bolivar ("George Washington of S. America"), King Charles XIII (King of Sweden 1748-1818), King Edward VII and King Edward VIII (Kings of England, 1901-10 & 36, respectively), Francis I and Francis II (Holy Roman Emperors, 1745-65 & 1768-1806), Frederick the Great (King of Prussia 1740-86), George I & George II (Kings of Greece, 1845-1913 & 1922-47), George IV & George VI (Kings of England 1760-1820 & 1820-30), Gustavus VI Adolphus (King of Sweden 1792-1809), Kamehemeha IV and Kemehemeha V (Kings of Hawaii (1854-63 & 1863-72) Leopold I (King of Belgium (1831-65), Peter the Great (Emperor of Russia 1689-1725), William I (King of Prussia 1861-88), William II (King of the Netherlands (1792-1849), William IV (King of England (1830-37) and many others.
RELIGIOUS LEADERS: Bishop Carl J Sander (United Methodist Church), Rabbi Seymour Atlas, Dr. James P. Wesberry (Former Executive director of the Southern Baptist Publication Sunday), The Reverend George W. Truett (President of the Southern Baptist Convention), The Reverend John A O'Brien, Ph.D. (Roman Catholic Priest and professor of theology at the University of Notre Dame), Cardinal Mariano Rampolla (Roman Catholic Cardinal), James C. Baker (Bishop, Methodist Church, organized first Wesley Foundation in U.S.), Hosea Ballou (Founder, Universalist Church), Robert E. B. Baylor (Baptist clergyman, founder of Baylor University), Preston Bradley (founder of the Peoples Church), Father Francisco Calvo (Catholic Priest who started Freemasonry in Costa Rica in 1865), Hugh I. Evans (National head of the Presbyterian Church, U.S.A.), Most Reverend Geoffrey F. Fisher (former Archbishop of Canterbury), Eugene M. Frank (Methodist Bishop), Reverend Dr. Norman Vincent Peale (Methodist Episcopal minister and author), Titus Low (President of Methodist Council of Bishops), Jesse Jackson (Operation P.U.S.H. and AME Baptist Church), and many, many other members of the Clergy.
ENTERTAINMENT: John Wayne, Harry Houdini, Richard Pryor, Gene Autry, Ernest Borgnine, Joe E. Brown, Bob Burns, Eddie Cantor, Duke Ellington, Irving Berlin, Louis Armstrong, Charles D. Coburn, William F. "Buffalo Bill" Cody, Donald Crisp, Roy Rogers, Cecil B. DeMille, Richard Dix, Douglas Fairbanks Sr., W.C. Fields, Clark Gable, Roy Clark, Nat King Cole, Arthur Godfrey, David W. Griffith, Oliver Hardy, Jean Hersholt, Al Jolson, Charles "Buck" Jones, Harry Kellar, Harold C. Lloyd, Tom Mix, Dick Powell, Will Rogers, Charles S. "Tom Thumb" Stratton, Richard B. "Red" Skelton, Paul Whiteman, Ed Wynn, Darryl Zanuck, August Ringling (Ringling Brothers Circus) and many others.
COMPOSERS: Irving Berlin, George M. Cohan, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, John Phillip Souza, Richard Wagner, Franz Joseph Haydn, Franz Listz, and many others.
INVENTORS AND SCIENTISTS: Samuel Colt (firearms), Sir Alexander Fleming (penicillin), Edward Jenner (vaccination) Simon Lake (first practical submarine), John L. McAdam (Macadamized roads) King C. Gillette (safety razor), Richard J. Gatling (gatling gun) and many others.
YOUTH ORGANIZATION FOUNDERS: Daniel Carter Beard (Boy Scouts), Frank S. Land (International Order of DeMolay), William Mark Sexton (International Order of Rainbow for Girls)
WRITERS: Robert Burns, Samuel L. Clemens (Mark Twain), Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes), Edward Gibbon (Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire), Edgar A. Guest, Rudyard Kipling, Alexander Pope, Sir Walter Scott, Johathan Swift, Lowell Thomas, Voltair and many others.
SCULPTORS: Gutzon Borglum and his son, Lincoln Borglum (together carved Mt. Rushmore National Memorial), Johann G. Schadow (Prussian Court Sculptor) J. Otto Schweizer and many others.
BUSINESS: Dave Thomas (founder of Wendy's restaurants), John Jacob Astor (financier), Lloyd Balfour (Jewelry), Lawrence Bell (Bell Aircraft Corp.), William H. Dow (Dow Chemical Co.), Henry Ford, Walter P. Chrysler, Alfred Fuller (Fuller Brush), King C. Gillett (Gillett Razor Co.), Sir Thomas Lipton (tea), Fredrick Maytag, Andrew W. Mellon (banker), James C. Penny, Charles Hilton (Hilton Hotels), George Pullman, David Sarnoff (father of T.V.), Leland Stanford (railroads - Stanford Univ.) and many others.
Its too bad some of these people you mention were all involved in this Cult.Many of the people you mentioned also resigned or stopped attending meetings when the truth about Freemasonry was revealed.
None of these people you mentioned can give you salvation nor can Freemasonry.It can take it away though!
Here is a link on freemasonry and Christianity.
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/masonry.html
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