Skip to comments.What We Have Lost
Posted on 06/03/2005 9:22:21 PM PDT by GOPmember
What We have Lost
...and the Road to Restoration
A critical look at the changes in the Catholic Church
This video gives you an intimate, up-close look at the destructive and wide-spread changes that have taken place in the two-thousand-year-old Catholic Church since the close of the Second Vatican Council in 1965.
Much of what you see will surprise you, maybe even shock you, and -- unfortunately -- will sadden you. "What We Have Lost" not ony exposes the external damage that has been done to the Universal Church, but goes deep behind the scenes to reveal the hidden changes; how and when they were made; and who made them.
This video asks the hard questions: Is the Church still Catholic? Has She lost the true faith? Does the clergy still truly "believe?" Can we count on today's Church to lead us to salvation? The answers found in "What We Have Lost" may bring you to anger -- or to tears. But after you see it, you will never look at the "modern" Church in the same way again.
And "What We Have Lost" is about hope. Hope in Jesus Christ and His one true Church on earth. Plus it's about the restoration of the traditional Latin Mass and the "Faith of our Fathers;" and it documents the groundswell of traditionalism within the Church, and how you can be a part of it...on the "Road to Restoration."
This video is nearly 700MB, so broadband is a must (and a download manager program is recommended).
A little over the top at times? Yes.
Anti-Vatican II and even faint sedevacantist overtones? Some.
Nonetheless, it illustrates well the most extreme fruits of liberalism that have proliferated in the Church over the past 40-some-odd years.
Subject: Re: ("Fr. M. E.) Morrison
M.E. Morrison was "ordained" in California in a Protestant church (Ebenezer Lutheran Chirch) by Thaddeus Alioto, a married man claiming to be a bishop (because he had been "consecrated" a bishop by Wallace David de Ortega Maxey).
De Ortega Maxey had been "consecrated" numerous times by various North American Old Catholic bishops (whom even the Old Catholic Churches in Europe deny have valid orders). De Ortega Maxey also *claimed* to have been consecrated by Antoine Aneed.
Aneed's story is that he was consecrated a bishop by a RC Eastern Rite bishop in Syria and sent to America. Both the Vatican and the Syrian Patriarchate involved denounced the story as a fabrication.
If you have any doubts over the veracity of my statements as to where Morrison got "ordained," just ask his fellow "independent" priest, Merril Adamson. He was "ordained" in the same ceremony. I've a written statement from him confirming the fact.
This is important not because of anything Morrison states on the internet, but because he dresses up his statements as coming from a RC priest.
Even the devil can quote Scripture.
Anyone e-mailing to Morrison's list a request for the facts of his claimed ordination will be dropped.
It never ceases to amaze me how sedevacantists can be so cock-sure JP II is a fraud, yet swallow hook, line and sinker any number of bogus clerics; just because the frauds sing the music sedes like to hear.
It takes more than "right" preaching to make a priest.
Regards, Terry Boyle
[Mr. Boyle's website is at http://www.tboyle.net/ ]
* It is an Infallible Catholic Dogma the Church cannot fail.
Chapter 2. On the permanence of the primacy of blessed Peter in the Roman pontiffs
That which our lord Jesus Christ, the prince of shepherds and great shepherd of the sheep, established in the blessed apostle Peter, for the continual salvation and permanent benefit of the church, must of necessity remain for ever, by Christ's authority, in the church which, founded as it is upon a rock, will stand firm until the end of time  . For no one can be in doubt, indeed it was known in every age that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, the pillar of faith and the foundation of the catholic church, received the keys of the kingdom from our lord Jesus Christ, the saviour and redeemer of the human race, and that to this day and for ever he lives and presides and exercises judgment in his successors the bishops of the holy Roman see, which he founded and consecrated with his blood  .
Therefore whoever succeeds to the chair of Peter obtains by the institution of Christ himself, the primacy of Peter over the whole church. So what the truth has ordained stands firm, and blessed Peter perseveres in the rock-like strength he was granted, and does not abandon that guidance of the church which he once received 
Pray for the Peace of Christ; trust in Him and His promises. Don't be led astray by those seeking to sow doubt and fear.
This is from the other link you provided. This gentleman, who wrote an online book about the Resurrection of the Roman Catholic Church (sic) apparently thinks the Popes since Pius XII (who died in 1958) are unreliable.
How are these links, which attack the Church and the Living Magisterium established by Jesus and promised by Him never to fail, useful to Christians?
Too bad because it is unnecessary. Traditionalists like that, I fear, do more harm than good.
It's just the same articles, over and over again. To answer some of your questions: Yes, the Church is still indeed Catholic, and yes, most priests still believe in the Church's teachings, and no, the disgruntled Trads are not the arbiters of what is and isn't Catholic.
**Traditionalists like that, I fear, do more harm than good.**
For me, I have real hope and do pray that our new Pope Benedict XVI will bring about stability and direct a resurgance in the True Faith. But it should be recognized that ignoring problems without acknowledging or addressing them, is the very reason we are in the situation we are in today.
Time eventually proves everything. So far it has not been too kind to Vatican II.
I agree there is nothing wrong with correcting the abuses of the post-Vatican II era. But the traditionalists simply gripe from their armchair about Latin Mass and priests with their backs to the congregation. A) That is not the cure-all for what ails the Church and B) It's a pipe-dream to think we can turn the clock back 200 years as if nothing happened.
Oh stop! You are simply not telling the truth about traditionalists.
Quit the fiction writing and deal with what traditionalists are actually fighting and you may learn something.
If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.
"The job of Progressives is to go on making mistakes, the job of Conservatives is to prevent those mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterton.
if the think the capitol "C" Catholic church has been around for two thousand years, you're dreamin.
GOPmember "200 years? And, why is this a pipe dream?"
Because the Body of Christ, the Church, His Spouse, moves forward in time, inexorably, towards the culmination of time; the Judgement.
Those who seek to turn back the clock, to return to a time of imagined purity, are always left behind, widows and widowers of a dead culture. Once, the Liturgy was Greek. Then a Pope changed the Liturgy into the vernacular Latin. Now, we have a vernacular Mass. This is not a Blessing?
Trent itself identified far worse abuses occuring in the old Liturgy.
DECREE CONCERNING THE THINGS TO BE OBSERVED, AND TO BE AVOIDED, IN THE CELEBRATION OF MASS.
What great care is to be taken, that the sacred and holy sacrifice of the mass be celebrated with all religious service and veneration, each one may easily imagine, who considers, that, in holy writ, he is called accursed, who doth the work of God negligently; and if we must needs confess, that no other work can be performed by the faithful so holy and divine as this tremendous mystery itself, wherein that life-giving victim, by which we were reconciled to the Father, is daily immolated on the altar by priests, it is also sufficiently clear, that all industry and diligence is to be applied to this end, that it be performed with the greatest possible inward cleanness and purity of heart, and outward show of devotion and piety. Whereas, therefore, either through the wickedness of the times, or through the carelessness and Corruption of men, many things seem already to have crept in, which are alien from the dignity of so great a sacrifice; to the end that the honour and cult due thereunto may, for the glory of God and the edification of the faithful people, be restored; the holy Synod decrees, that the ordinary bishops of places shall take diligent care, and be bound to prohibit and abolish all those things which either covetousness, which is a serving of idols, or irreverence, which can hardly be separated from impiety; or superstition, which is a false imitation of true piety, may have introduced. And that many things may be comprised in a few words: first, as relates to covetousness:--they shall wholly prohibit all manner of conditions and bargains for recompenses, and whatsoever is given for the celebration of new masses; as also those importunate and illiberal demands, rather than requests, for alms, and other things of the like sort, which are but little removed from a simonical taint, or at all events, from filthy lucre.
In the next place, that irreverence may be avoided, each, in his own diocese, shall forbid that any wandering or unknown priest be allowed to celebrate mass. Furthermore, they shall not allow any one who is publicly and notoriously stained with crime, either to minister at the holy altar, or to assist at the sacred services; nor shall they suffer the holy sacrifice to be celebrated, either by any Seculars or Regulars whatsoever, in the houses; or, at all, out of the church, and those oratories which are dedicated solely to divine worship, and which are to be designated and visited by the said Ordinaries; and not then, unless those who are present shall have first shown, by their decently composed outward appearance, that they are there not in body only, but also in mind and devout affection of heart. They shall also banish from churches all those kinds of music, in which, whether by the organ, or in the singing, there is mixed up any thing lascivious or impure; as also all secular actions; vain and therefore profane conversations, all walking about, noise, and clamour, that so the house of God may be seen to be, and may be called, truly a house of prayer.
Lastly, that no room may be left for superstition; they shall by ordinance, and under given penalties, provide, that priests do not celebrate at other than due hours; nor employ other rites, or other ceremonies and prayers, in the celebration of masses, besides those which have been approved of by the Church, and have been received by a frequent and praiseworthy usage. They shall wholly banish from the Church the observance of a fixed number of certain masses and of candles, as being the invention of superstitious worship, rather than of true religion; and they shall instruct the people, what is, and whence especially is derived, the fruit so precious and heavenly of this most holy sacrifice. They shall also admonish their people to repair frequently to their own parish churches, at least on the Lord's days and the greater festivals. All, therefore, that has been briefly enumerated, is in such wise propounded to all Ordinaries of places, as that, by the power given them by this sacred and holy Synod, and even as delegates of the Apostolic See, they may prohibit, ordain, reform, and establish, not only the things aforesaid, but also whatsoever else shall seem to them to have relation hereunto; and may compel the faithful people inviolably to observe them, by ecclesiastical censures and other penalties, which at their pleasure they may appoint; any privileges, exemptions, appeals, and customs whatsoever, to the contrary notwithstanding.
end of quote
Trent notes the "mass of all time" was rife with filthy lucre, superstition, commmotion, folks jabbering during Mass, wordly music, folks not going to mass, vagus clergy clebrating here and there without permission from the Bishop who had Jurisdiction. Nothing new under the sun. The Living Magisterium has authority (always has) to take decisions about traditions - it can preserve them, it can change them, it can abandon them, and you, if you are an authentic Christian, you will obey the Living Magisterium you profess in the Creed to believe in.
How about a review written by one in Union with the Pope?
What We Have Lost" Is What We Must Recover Our Faith In Christ's Mystical Body.
By Peter Vere
"The Word of God who brought into existence men's souls and bodies, became man in Judea -- our Savior Jesus Christ. Perfectly righteous and filled with divine wisdom, He lovingly taught us what the God of all is like, and what is the end of virtue, befitting the souls of men with a view to social order and dignity. By His own suffering He put a stop to sins in their very beginning. He taught us to relieve sorrow, to be generous, to promote charity, to put away vainglory, to abstain from taking revenge, to despise death -- not when inflicted for wrongdoing, but in patient endurance of the wrongdoing of others. He taught us to obey the law laid down by Himself, to honor the king, to worship the immortal God, and Him only, to believe our souls to be immortal, to look forward to judgement after death, to expect the reward of the toils of virtue to be given by God after the resurrection of those who have lived good lives. All this He taught us plainly." [Appolonius the Apologist, quoted from Butler's Lives of the Saints, revised by Thurston and Attwater (Westminster, MD, 1956), vol. II, p. 120.]
Not too long ago, my attention was drawn to an area of a Traditionalist web-page claiming to list essential works every Traditionalist should read in order to preserve their Catholic faith during the modern crisis within the Church. Of the thirty or so works listed, I was surprised to find fewer than five printed before the Second Vatican Council -- and within these five works, fewer still were written by Saints or Roman Pontiffs. Assuming the good intentions of the webmaster, I was nevertheless saddened that so much space was devoted to controversy, and so little devoted to pursuing the Christian piety of the Saints and the teaching of the Magesterium. And thus I find myself reflecting upon the following question, namely what is this Tradition I seek to preserve and pass down to my children as a Catholic? Is it a Tradition of integrist paranoia which sifts numerous Masonic conspiracies and modernist cabals like the sands of the sea, or is it a Tradition of a united redemptive vision cntered around Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist and founded upon the solidity of the rock of St. Peter?
With the recent controversy within Traditionalist circles over the video "What We Have Lost," I find myself wondering whether as a movement we have bothered to pause and reflect upon this very question. While we may compare the Tridentine liturgy to the Novus Ordo and cite various liturgical traditions which have been lost in the post-conciliar liturgical reform, there is nevertheless a sense that the Traditionalist movement has lost something of its own in periodically sacrificing popular piety for polemic. At the root of this malaise infecting the movement is the irony of having become so painfully focused upon Judas Iscariot's betrayal, that they have lost sight of He whom Judas betrayed -- Jesus Christ. Since the pontificate of Pope Pius XII, what we have lost as Traditional Catholics, is our trust in the Blessed Mother and St. John the Apostle comforting our Lord at the foot of the cross. Even more than the liturgy, what we have lost as Traditional Catholics is a sense of popular piety and devotion towards the Mystical Body of Christ which now finds itself crucified by cultural Judas Iscariots.
As a Traditional Catholic, I am not called to place my faith in Judas Iscariot's ability to conspire, betray and destroy the Church. Rather, Christ calls us through the Gospels to place our faith in His ability to preserve the Church against those who, inspired by the gates of hell, conspire to destroy her. For although the Mystical Body of Christ may at times appear to be undergoing a crucifixion, we have faith that these moments of darkness will soon pass and, like Our Lord's physical body, His Mystical Body will resurrect itself by the power of the Holy Ghost. It is this faith in Christ's promise to preserves the Church which the Traditionalist Movement has lost, and it is this hope firmly rooted in popular piety which we must recover. For as Pope Pius XII reminds us, "the [Church's] greatest glory and exaltation are born only of sufferings, and hence...we should rejoice we partake of the sufferings of Christ, that when His glory shall be revealed we may also be glad with exceeding joy." [Mystici Corporis, par. 2]
It is in suffering alongside our Blessed Mother at the foot of the cross that we partake in the joy of her Divine Son's resurrection, uncovering "the riches hidden in a Church, which Christ hath purchased with His own blood, and whose members glory in a thorn-crowned Head." [Mystici Corporis, par. 2] For the blood which flows from the head of Christ is redemptive, bringing about the salvation of our soul. And while Church Militant may seem more like Church Suffering at the moment, in each and every thorn which pierces the Master's head we find a foretaste of Church Triumphant. Therefore, as Traditional Catholics we must persevere against the despairing call of integrism which, horrified at the sight of a crucified Church, calls us to abandon Christ's Mystical Body. Furthermore, we must not sever our ties St. Peter and his successors, for in severing our ties with the visible head of Christ's Mystical Body we sever our ties with the very thorn-crowned Head which brings about the glory of salvation. While the Holy Father may sometimes appear asleep on the throne of St. Peter, as Traditional Catholics we joyfully submit to him, faithful to Our Lord's bold reminder in Sacred Scripture that "Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren." [St. Luke 22: 31-32]
In quoting the Douay-Rheims translation which distinguishes between the plural "you" and the singular "thou," we note as Catholic Traditionalists that Satan has demanded of our Lord that he should sift all the apostles ("you" -- plural) as wheat, and by extension all the Christian faithful, but Our Lord has prayed for Simon Peter ("thou" -- singular) that SIMON PETER's faith may fail not -- promising Simon Peter that he will overcome any moments of temporary weakness and confirm the rest of the Church in the Catholic faith. What is even more notable in this passage is that Our Lord addresses the chief apostle not by his papal name "Peter," but by his birth name "Simon." Thus as Catholic Traditionalists we remain faithful to Our Lord's promise that He will preserve not only the faith of the office of St. Peter, but the faith of Simon the office holder.
Nevertheless, like in Christ's time when those Pharisees who sought tradition simply for tradition's sake ridiculed our crucified Lord, crying out "He saved others, now let him save himself," the present day apostles of integrism will accuse those of us who remain faithful to the ecclesiological Tradition of the Church of "selling out the Traditionalist movement" in remaining faithful to the Christ's promise to Simon-Peter. Yet in uniting ourselves as traditional Catholics to the crucified Christ firmly rooted in the rock of St. Peter's lawful successor, our "motive is altogether divine: not only the will of the Eternal Father and the earnest wish of our Savior, but the interior inspiration and impulse of the Holy Ghost in our minds and hearts." [Mystici Corporis, par. 75] Similarly, if upholding this promise of Our Lord means as Traditional Catholics we must share a Church with those who conspire against her, or else those who are weaker in faith and morals; we will gladly do so, inspired by the following reminder of Pope Pius XII that "Christ did not wish to exclude sinners from His Church; hence if some members of the Church are spiritually ill, that is no reason why we should lessen our love for the Church, but rather a reason why should increase our devotion to her members." [Mystici Corporis, par. 72]
This passage, so carefully crafted by His Holiness, express the inspired teachings of the Holy Ghost to which we cling as Traditional Catholics. They are part of the authentic Tradition preached by our Lord in the Gospels when He calls upon us to pray for our persecutors, so that they may be blinded by the light of Christ; for just as every Saul of Tarsus is a potential St. Paul, so too is every modernist seduced by worldly philosophies a potential St. Thomas Beckett inspired by Christ's passion. For it is in patiently undergoing crucifixion with Christ's Mystical Body and devoting ourselves as Catholic Traditionalists to the spiritual welfare of the modern-day prostitutes, tax-collectors and persecutors in our midst that the Church is showered with "heavenly gifts and extraordinary graces through which, with inexhaustible fecundity, she generates hosts of martyrs, virgins and confessors." [Mystici Corporis, art. 72]
What we have lost as Traditionalists, we must recover -- our faith in Holy Mother Church and our trust in Christ's promise to preserve His Mystical Body against the gates of hell. What we have lost in our battle to preserve Tradition is Charity towards God and neighbor -- the principle theological virtue according to the Angelic Doctor St. Thomas Aquinas -- and this we must recover if we are lead the restoration of the Church, for Our Lord teaches us in the Gospels that to love one's God and to love one's neighbor are the two commandments upon which the rest of our Catholic Tradition is founded. What we have lost in becoming embittered by the present worldly ideologues persecuting the Church is an earnest desire to see our enemies converted, and this we must recover if we wish to adhere to redemptive Tradition of Christ Crucified re-enacted in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. What we have lost as Traditionalists in isolating ourselves into catacombic ghettos is a sense of communion with the rest of Holy Mother Church, and we must recover our Traditional ecclesiological filial loyalty to Rome if we are to be the spiritual leaven which causes the Church rise out its present malaise.
As one of the first Traditional Catholic cyber-media barons to establish an Internet fiefdom through an email discussion list, a cyber-novel and a webpage, it requires little effort on my part to produce a polemical electronic rant celebrating the most egregious excesses of liturgical abuse within the Novus Ordo. Often I have found myself pointing the finger at the Novus Ordo, begging the question "what have we lost?" And yet if Christ were walking amongst us today, I am not certain I could account for all the talents which Christ has entrusted to Traditional Catholics -- either as an individuals within the movement, or to the movement as a whole. However, it is not the talents of those persecuting the Church or abusing the liturgy for which Christ will call us to account on Judgement Day, but rather He will demand from us an account of those talents with which He blessed us as Traditional Catholics in communion with Pope John Paul II and his lawful successors.
Therefore, let those flirting with integrism pose of the Novus Ordo the rhetorical question "what have we lost?" in which we can only discern an effort to justify a schismatic mentality -- for those who are without the Rock of St. Peter will always be the first to cast sins upon the Church; as Traditional Catholics in communion with the See of St. Peter, our first duty in looking towards the Sacred Tradition passed down by our forefathers is to ask this question of ourselves, and only then may we ask "what can we as Traditional Catholics recover for the Church Christ founded on St. Peter?" And let us pose these questions and carry out their response in a spirit of Christian Charity towards our neighbors, our ecclesiastical superiors, and our persecutors -- always remembering that "if at times there appears in the Church something that points to the weakness of our human nature, put it down not to the juridical constitution, but rather to that regrettable inclination to evil found in everyone, which its divine Founder permits even at times in the most exalted members of His Mystical Body, for the purpose of testing the virtue of flocks and Shepherds, and that all may increase the merit of their Christian faith." [Mystici Corporis, art. 72]
For to recover a sense of Christian Charity towards others cannot but strengthen the Traditionalist cause within the Church. It is a sad commentary upon the movement that we too often dismiss Charity as a syrupy post-conciliar innovation perpetuated solely by charismatics and social justice activists within the Church. And yet the call to Christian Charity is firmly rooted in our Catholic Tradition, for as Pope Pius XII reminds us, "Charity, then, more than any other virtue binds us closely to Christ. On fire with this flame from heaven how many children of the Church have rejoiced to suffer insults for Him, and to face and overcome the hardest trials, though it cost their lives and the shedding of their blood." If we are truly what we claim to be -- Catholics who uphold and practice the Traditional teachings of the Church -- we must heed this call from the Magisterial Tradition of the Church to show charity to those who persecute us, whether it be our neighbor, our ecclesiastical superior, or a Saul of Tarsus seeking to destroy the Church. Again, the salvation of souls is too precious a cause for the Traditionalist Movement to become embittered by persecution, polemic, betrayal and past wrongs.
What we have lost is what we must recover -- the supernatural virtue of Charity. If one surveys the great expanse of the Church's history, one notes that even in the best of times Our Lord calls each individual to save his soul through Christ. In the most troubled of times, however, Our Lord calls us not only to save our own soul through Christ, but that of our neighbor as well. As Traditional Catholics it is imperative that we heed the teachings of our saints like Francis of Assisi who is alleged to have commanded his followers to "go into the world and preach the Gospel of Christ, using words only when necessary." As Catholic Traditionalists, our Lord has not called us to save the Church -- neither privately as individuals nor corporately as a movement within the Church -- for only Christ is capable of such an awesome feat; rather, Our Lord has called us each and every Catholic Traditionalist to be a saint, to exercise heroic virtue in conforming our lives to the Sacred Deposit of Holy Tradition safeguarded in the Petrine Primacy, and to be an example which leads others to salvation in Christ.
What we have lost in the Traditional Catholic Movement is the call to personal sanctity in our daily lives. What we must recover as Catholic Traditionalists, if we are to be effective in fostering Tradition among the rest of the Church while converting those outside the Church, is the zeal of saints for the salvation of souls and joyful conformity to the Will of Christ. In the end, what we must recover as Catholic Traditionalists is the desire to be great saints. And while such a feat may seem incredible, impossible, presumptuous and a host of other adjectives which serve simply as excuses in order to justify our fallen nature and weakness of will; to become a saint is not only possible in Christ, but probable if as Catholic Traditionalists we show but a mustard seed of faith in the redemptive sacrifice of His crucifixion as well as an iota of joyful submission to the salvific juggernaut of His Mystical Body the Church.
(copyright 2000, Peter John Vere)