Posted on 06/03/2005 9:22:21 PM PDT by GOPmember
What We have Lost
...and the Road to Restoration
A critical look at the changes in the Catholic Church
This video gives you an intimate, up-close look at the destructive and wide-spread changes that have taken place in the two-thousand-year-old Catholic Church since the close of the Second Vatican Council in 1965.
Much of what you see will surprise you, maybe even shock you, and -- unfortunately -- will sadden you. "What We Have Lost" not ony exposes the external damage that has been done to the Universal Church, but goes deep behind the scenes to reveal the hidden changes; how and when they were made; and who made them.
This video asks the hard questions: Is the Church still Catholic? Has She lost the true faith? Does the clergy still truly "believe?" Can we count on today's Church to lead us to salvation? The answers found in "What We Have Lost" may bring you to anger -- or to tears. But after you see it, you will never look at the "modern" Church in the same way again.
And "What We Have Lost" is about hope. Hope in Jesus Christ and His one true Church on earth. Plus it's about the restoration of the traditional Latin Mass and the "Faith of our Fathers;" and it documents the groundswell of traditionalism within the Church, and how you can be a part of it...on the "Road to Restoration."
Pete Vere is no traditionalist. And I have yet to see or hear him or read of him that he has formally denounced his Satanism.
The nonsense he wrote in "Surprised by Truth 3" shows just how ridiculous his line of thinking is.
What I'm complaining about are ignorant neos who like to make false statements about traditionalists.
Those folks appear joyful in their misery. It is almost as if they dig for negative news as a way to justify their dissension, destruction and disunifying ways.
I want no part of those folks, their publications, productions, tapes, audiences etc. I am a happy Christian in Union with the Holy Father and these folks of the ISOCC outfit, if they were men of integrity, would cease proclaiming the Creed because they clearly do not believe in the ONE spoken in the Creed because that ONENESS in the Creed is UNITY, the Unity of Worship, Doctrine and Authority and they, clearly reject that.
BTW, all the ancient Catechisms teach that about the Creed and these folks reject it so of what value are their personal opinions vs. the Living Magisterium about which ....
Jesus: " He who hears you, hears me"
You missed my point. I'll repeat it. There is no purity in the past to which we can return. As the Council of Trent noted, even the "mass of all time" was rife with abuses, simonical taint, superstition, commotion, worldy music etc etc.
I am happy you have access to the FSSP. I used to go to the Indult my ownself.
So, does the FSSP promote or sell this video? If not, why not? If you don't know, will you please ask your FSSP priest his opinion of the video and tell us his response?
For the record, I am in favor of anything the Living Magisterium permits,promotes etc, incluidng the Indult. I prefer the Pauline Rite myself.
Which lay-trad-pope has authority to declare one a trad or a pretend trad?
Mr. Vere is a convert to the Faith and he is a Canon Lawyer.
His journey from Atheism to Satanism to Catholicsm is a witness to the Glory and Mercy and Grace of our Lord and Saviour.
The same authority that lets you go on your cockamamey rants about who is and who is not obedient to the "Living Magisterium".
It's so plainly obvious you toss around words and phrases that you have no idea of what they mean.
Vere is a liar and a calumniator. I've brought to his attention on numerous occasions and he did his level best to slither out of it. When his behavior was overt, I asked him point blank if he was sure he ever left the occult. Of course he didn't answer.
Pete Vere's Author Bio
Pete Vere grew up as in Northern Ontario, where he attended French Catholic schools. He is a revert from the SSPX schism, one of the youngest canon lawyers in North America, and a doctoral candidate with the Faculty of Canon Law at Saint Paul University. As a Catholic writer, canonist and apologist, Pete's work has appeared in numerous Catholic publications, including Surprised by Truth 3. He is the co-author of Surprised by Canon Law: 150 Questions Catholic Ask About Canon Law and More Catholic Than the Pope. Additionally, he is currently developing a canon law course for Catholic Distance University. Pete is married to his college sweetheart Sonya, and they have two children (but are hoping God will send them more!) When not engaging in canon law or apologetics, Pete and Sonya volunteer with the International Order of Alhambra -- a Catholic fraternal organization dedicated to assisting the mentally and developmentally challenged. Sonya loves it because it allows her to spend some quality time with Pete away from the computer, and Pete loves it because he gets to wear a nifty white fez and still be a Catholic in good standing!
No. It is merely one of many effectual results that stem from the causality of an uprising of traditionalism among Catholics. Which will in fact go a long way to restoring the Church towards purity and beauty.
B) It's a pipe-dream to think we can turn the clock back 200 years as if nothing happened.
Please. Thge traditional Latin Mass was around in my lifetime. Surprise, I'm less than two hundred years old! The atavistic impulse is a perrenial part of human nature and asserts itself from time to time. It is "progressivers" like yourself that view history as a straight line where the present always contains the highest point reached by humanity; that is the primary delusion of liberalism.
Am I arguing that the past is better only because it is old? No.
I am arguing that there is a reverency, beauty, and consistency inherent to the Tridentene Mass that shaprly contrasts with the hand holding, hugging, applause, irreverent music (complete with drums and guitars), and the "never know what to expect this week" elements that I grew up with in (and which subsequently drove me away from) the N.O. Mass.
So, does the FSSP promote or sell this video? If not, why not? If you don't know, will you please ask your FSSP priest his opinion of the video and tell us his response?
I'm not aware that the FSSP promotes this video. I'll ask father about it the next time I get a chance. I suspect that you are waiting for me no reply "no" (which I believe is probably the answer), which you'll likey then use to further your attempts at discounting this film which you've admitted you will never watch.
Please don't get me wrong. I understand your desire to not promote fringe groups and ideas that are in conflict with Rome. But, I'm not sure that the vast majority of information in this movie is so out of line. If I'm wrong, I'd be interested in hearing the arguments against it. But, you've rejected it outright without even seeing it.
Thanks. I was wondering why it wasn't working, I thought it was me.
In my opinion and I'll go no futher...this video IS A MUST SEE to those who have been stumbling around not understanding what has happened to the Once Universally same Roman Catholic Church!!! All priests ,Bishops, Cardinals ect. and Latity NEED to see this one!
Our Lady of La Salette,in 1864 warned that "ROME would lose the Faith and also the world...and sooo it started with the Changes of the Holy Mass to a mere mess! reverevnce and modesty went out the window and modernism and lack of realization of SIN came in ...guess who was really responsible for it all!!! WATCH AND SpREAD This Video! AMEN!
I have seen this video and it does not exagerate. It is odd that those who claim such loyalty to the pope tolerate these sacrileges. Those who are labeled schismatics have the most profound respect for the Host and the mass.
Think about Abel and Cain. Abel offered the unspottd lamb while Cain offered far less. Who pleased God more?
bumpus ad summum
What business does any Catholic have asking such questions?
Q. What, then, is the Church at the present time?
A. The entire body of pastors and people, bound together by the same divine truths, laws, and means of grace, under one head, the Pope of Rome.
Q. Who are the true successors of the Apostles?
A. Only the Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church.
Q. Why?
A. Because they alone are rightly consecrated and in communion with the Pope, the Head of the Church.
Q. Is not the Catholic Church the household of which Jesus Christ is the Master?
A. She is.
Q. Will Satan be able to take possession of this household in spite of its Divine Master?
A. No one can say so without blasphemy.
Q. Is not the Catholic Church the Body of Jesus Christ?
A. The Church, says St. Paul, is the Body of Christ.
Q. What follows from this?
A. That Christ is inseparably united with His Church.
Q. What, then, would it be for one to say that the Church could be destroyed?
A. It would be to say that Christ or God can be overcome, which would be the height of madness and blasphemy. (Fr. Michael Müller, Familiar explanation of Christian doctrine, pp. 44-5, 65-6)
"Because the Body of Christ, the Church, His Spouse, moves forward in time, inexorably, towards the culmination of time; the Judgement.
Those who seek to turn back the clock, to return to a time of imagined purity, are always left behind, widows and widowers of a dead culture."
I assume then that you would also condemn any attempts to turn the clock back by 1500 years?
And yet this was exactly the stated motivation of the post-conciliar reformers who gave us the "Pauline rite" which you say you prefer. Why is the attempt to turn the clock back by 1500 years meritorious, whereas the desire of Traditionalists to simply have the Mass in use a mere 40 years ago is so worthy of all your venom, bile and condemnation?
Your hatred of the Traditional Mass is both illogical and hypocritical when you try to set it in the context of "turning the clock back". I suppose you are also more Catholic than the Pope who has gone on record several times saying that the result of the post-conciliar attempts to turn the clock back has been a "banal on the spot product" which was "fabricated by committee"?
It would seem that the Pope's view of the new liturgy has much more in common with that of the SSPX than it does with yours!
In less than 150 words, what is the True Faith, as defined by the CC? In other words, what is required for salvation? Thank you.
Your first paragraph is historically incorrect. The Tridentine Mass was codified AFTER the Council of Trent. In reference to the worldy music you mention, the problem was in the melodies that were employed at the time for liturgical use. Many of these were secular songs with liturgical texts set to them. Also, it seems, from reading some history of Palestrina's time, that there was a problem with the music being so polyphonic and elaborate, that words tended to be obscured by the music.
But on to the point of the "traveling" FSSP priest. I think a couple of weeks ago you kept posting the canon from the Council of Trent regarding priests celebrating outside their dioceses, etc... Does that mean the the FSSP is ipso facto censured?
One might go so far as to say diabolical.
And yet this was exactly the stated motivation of the post-conciliar reformers who gave us the "Pauline rite" which you say you prefer. Why is the attempt to turn the clock back by 1500 years meritorious, whereas the desire of Traditionalists to simply have the Mass in use a mere 40 years ago is so worthy of all your venom, bile and condemnation?
Excellent point.
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