But, I don't think the scriptures that guide the relationship between husband and wife are on a point to point footing with the relationship of God with His stewards. 
Posted on 02/24/2006 8:40:59 AM PST by conserv371
Only when one see three stars in the sky.
What if there were a solar eclipse ?
Would you see the three stars before the beginning of the new month?
b'shem Y'shua
"After over 25 years, I still find these discussions fascinating." ~ labette
This is what I find "fascinating":
Cerinthus embraced chiliasm, a form of apocalyptic vision that depicted the millennium as a physical and material period.
In North Africa there arose the Donatists, led by Tyconius, who predicted that the world would end in 380 C.E. Augustine, then Bishop of Hippo, took aim at the sect in an effort to disprove what he termed "out-dated and inappropriate dreams of an earthly paradise." After his death in 430 C.E., a council of church leaders meeting at Ephesus condemned the literalist vision of a physical, worldly millennialist utopia.
Eusebius is one of the early church fathers who most clearly denounces "chiliasm," as premillennialism was then called. In the same work he writes, "About the same time … appeared Cerinthus, the leader of another Heresy. Caius, in The Disputation attributed to him, writes respection him: ‘But Cerinthus, by means of revelations which he pretended as if they were showed him by angels, asserting, that after the resurrection there would be an earthly kingdom of Christ, and that flesh, i.e. men, again inhabiting Jerusalem, would be subject to desires and pleasures. Being also an enemy to the divine scriptures, with a view to deceive men, he said that there would be a space of a thousand years for celebrating nuptial festivals.’" Eusebius also writes of a tradition passed down by Polycarp regarding an encounter between the Apostle John and Cerinthus in a public bath, "He [Polycarp] says that John the Apostle once entered a bath to wash; but ascertaining that Cerinthus was within, he leaped out of the place and fled from the door, not enduring to enter under the same roof with him, and exhorting those with him to do the same, saying, ‘Let us flee, lest the bath fall in, as long as Cerinthus, that enemy of the truth is within.’" Tertullianus is another early church father who attributes chiliasm’s birth to Cerinthus. He writes: "They are not to be heard who assure themselves that there is to be an earthly reign of a thousand years, who think with the heretic Cerinthus. For the Kingdom of Christ is now eternal in the saints, although the glory of the saints shall be manifested after the resurrection."
http://members.aol.com/twarren19/athacreed.html
Justin Martyr (A.D.150)
CHAP. XI.--WHAT KINGDOM CHRISTIANS LOOK FOR.
"And when you hear that we look for a kingdom, you suppose, without making any inquiry, that we speak of a human kingdom; whereas we speak of that which is with God, as appears also from the confession of their faith made by those who are charged with being Christians, though they know that death is the punishment awarded to him who so confesses. For if we looked for a human kingdom, we should also deny our Christ, that we might not be slain; and we should strive to escape detection, that we might obtain what we expect. But since our thoughts are not fixed on the present, we are not concerned when men cut us off; since also death is a debt which must at all events be paid." (First Apology of Justin Martyr, ch. 11)
"Chiliasm found no favor with the best of the Apostolic Fathers... " (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, v. 25 - 36 ).
Eusebius (A.D.325)
"This same historian (Papias) also gives other accounts, which he says he adds as received by him from unwritten tradition, likewise certain strange parables of our Lord, and of His doctrine and some other matters rather too fabulous. In these he says there would be a certain millennium after the resurrection, and that there would be a corporeal reign of Christ on this very earth; which things he appears to have imagined, as if they were authorized by the apostolic narrations, not understanding correctly those matters which they propounded mystically in their representations. For he was very limited in his comprehension, as is evident from his discourses; yet he was the cause why most of the ecclesiastical writers, urging the antiquity of man, were carried away by a similar opinion; as, for instance, Irenaeus, or any other that adopted such sentiments. (Book III, Ch. 39)
Epiphanes (315-403)
"There is indeed a millennium mentioned by St.John; but the most, and those pious men, look upon those words as true indeed, but to be taken in a spiritual sense." (Heresies, 77:26.)
The belief in the millennium was condemned as superstitious at the Council of Ephesus in 431.
"This obscure doctrine [Chiliasm] was probabally known to but very few except the fathers of the church, and is very sparingly mentioned by them during the first centuries; and there is reason to believe that it scarcely attained much notoriety, even among the learned Christians, until it was made a matter of controversy by Origen, and then rejected by the greater majority. In fact, we find Origen himself saying that it was confined to those of the simpler sort. " (Waddington's History, pg. 56)
A field guide to Heresies: http://kevin.davnet.org/articles/heresy.html
Ebionism
Ebionites considered Christianity as a sect of Judaism. The believed the Jesus was a mere man of exceptional righteousness and a superior endowment of the Spirit which came upon him at his baptism. Some Ebionites accepted, and some rejected, the supernatural conception of Christ. Ebionites were among the Judaizers who attempted to impose the Law of Moses upon Christians. Ebionites were millenialists--those who believe in a literal 1,000-year reign of Christ on Earth.
The System of Cerinthus
Cerinthus (contemporary of the Apostle John) combined Gnostic views (separating the earthly Jesus who was the son of Joseph and Mary from the heavenly Christ) with the views of the Judaizers. Cerinthus was also a millinealist (also known as chiliasm).
The Great Premillennial HOAX by Don Matzat
http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/journals/v1.htm
It is my opinion that the church will not be made immune to the hardships to come just as they were not made immune to the hardships that came before. This is not God's way regardless of the heresies taught by Hal Lindsay and his ilk.
So then he gets a bunch of women in his congregation who apparently had never heard a lick of bible prophecy (which is odd since they were HIS congregation and he wants us to believe he is an expert at it) and tells then the night before the rapture that they are leaving...What a whacko...
And now, he claims:
The present-day nation of Israel is no more involved in God's plans for the future than is France, England, Germany, the United States, etc. The teaching of the New Testament is very clear - Jesus fulfilled everything pertaining to Israel and formed the New Israel, His church.
This guy's gotta be on drugs...If not, he should be...
Here are a couple references:
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. Rev 12:11
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev 12:17
It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. Rev 13:7
Here is the patience of the saints; here£ are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying £to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’” Rev 14:13
To write all of these references off as referring to Jews is wishful interpretation. They had the faith of Jesus. That makes them part of the church.
What do you suppose God's opinion is???
This is not God's way regardless of the heresies taught by Hal Lindsay and his ilk.
OK, I'll bite...What's God's way???
Oh, please . . . Do you read
the Bible while you're drinking?
God rescued the Jews
when Moses led them
out of Egypt. God rescued
the whole human race
when Noah's family
was warned and saved from the Flood.
God Saved all humans
(well, optioned us all)
when He sent Jesus to us.
God always rescues
His people. God knows
WITHOUT His help we are LOST.
Saving His people
is a Scripture riff
as far back as Genesis!
God didn't allow
Adam and Eve to
eat from the Tree of Life and
become immortal
in their Cursed bodies,
rather, He "Raptured" them out
for their own safety.
That is the pattern
throughout Scripture -- God always
Saves His own people.
Thank heaven, as ballyhooed milestones pass one by one, with nothing happening, a lot of saints are finding more God-honoring ways of viewing, and working to change the course of events.
A quick and useful aphorim:
But, I don't think the scriptures that guide the relationship between husband and wife are on a point to point footing with the relationship of God with His stewards.
Sorry about that
"drinking" crack. It was stupid.
Again, I'm sorry.
Maybe you thought of
chandeliers (the drinking game)
when you wrote that post.
Or could it be that
you were drinking some yourself?
Put down the Sake.
:-)
Reality always seems funny to the uninformed/credulous.
Well, I took your advice and got informed...I followed your link...And here's what I found...
2 Peter 3:10, 12 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up...Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Problem here? No more so than it was in Olivet when we hear of the moon turning to blood and such. This is just the usual Jewish apocalyptic hyperbole, representing the refashioning of the social and political order -- not a literal description of history as it shall happen.
The author of your link doesn't believe the Bible to begin with...If you chose not to believe the book, you can make up anything you want...But hey, if this part isn't literal, how can you say for certain Jesus hung on a cross????
- How narrowly should a church define the beliefs it requires of it's members?
or
- What should the believer do when his private Bible studies seem to conflict with church doctrine?
I agree. These threads are MUCH more civilized than those evolution "street fights". Maybe it's those good southern manners we were raised with?
**Interesting. Do you believe Enoch is a type of the church? If so, is there any other basis for it, other than the fact that he was taken up before the flood?**
At least 669 years passed between Enoch's translation and the great flood. That's a pretty long time, IMO.
This much is clear, as bad as some of the past history has been (black plague, the potato famine, WW1, WW2, etc.) the rapture has yet to happen. I'm sure that some believers living right there, amidst those terrible and fearful times, thought, surely the Lord is coming immediately.
I pray I live and do as he wills (which, of course, includes warning of the wrath that is to come). That is all any of us can do.
Yes GE, the rapture is indeed the focal point for most Prostestant Christians today and why not? What a great majestic idea that the person as the individual is saved from going thru such a horrific time as the tribulation. Of course its appealing. And yes, most Christians I speak to dont really want to know about the second coming, but they are all waiting to be flown away.
You are well loved by God if you have come to see the truth behind this charade. Remember Jesus quote about scales on eyes? Many wish to slumber and so they shall. God is fair to all his creatures. Best wishes to you and yours.
Yes GE, the rapture is indeed the focal point for most Prostestant(sic) Christians today and why not? What a great majestic idea that the person as the individual is saved from going thru such a horrific time as the tribulation. Of course its appealing. And yes, most Christians I speak to dont(sic) really want to know about the second coming, but they are all waiting to be flown away.
You are well loved by God if you have come to see the truth behind this charade. Remember Jesus quote about scales on eyes? Many wish to slumber and so they shall. God is fair to all his creatures. Best wishes to you and yours.
79 posted on 02/26/2006 2:54:02 AM MST by son of caesar
Will YHvH force Y'shua faithful Bride through the times of Jacob's trouble? I'm speaking of not corporations but only those faithful followers YHvH has said that He will restore his set-apart wife, Israel ( Naomi ) This is all set out metaphorically in the book of Ruth.
Has YHvH been faithful to His wife Israel?
Will he divorce her or simply set her aside and punish her for a time?
who have a personal intimate relationship with and who do the will of Y'shua.
Only those brides who kept the wicks on their lamps trimmed will be prepared
when the Bridegroom comes unexpectedly in the middle of the night.
to her former place when Ruth ( the gentile bride ) marries Boez ( the Goel ).Praise His Holy Name!
b'shem Y'shua
The Name above all other names.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.