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Calvinist pastor likely to run for 1st VP(SBC) (updated May 26)
Biblicalrecorder.org ^ | 5-26-6 | By Robert Marus

Posted on 05/26/2006 1:54:33 PM PDT by WKB

WASHINGTON - A neo-Calvinist may face an evangelist for first vice president of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) this summer - in addition to the meeting's contested presidential race.

Mark Dever, pastor of the Washington's Capitol Hill Baptist Church and a popular leader among SBC Calvinists, acknowledged May 24 that he would allow himself to be nominated for the post. Several members of a group of leaders concerned over the denomination's direction have been mentioning Dever's name for several weeks as a potential nominee for SBC office.

Dever's acknowledgement came two days after the denomination's official news service reported that a Georgia evangelist would also be nominated for the post.

Keith Fordham, an evangelist from Fayetteville, Ga., will run for the slot, according to a May 22 Baptist Press report. Fordham is the immediate past president of the Conference of Southern Baptist Evangelists. The organization's current president, Bill Britt, made the announcement and said he would nominate his colleague.

"Dr. Fordham is a dynamic and deeply spiritual evangelist who has been used mightily of God to impact our convention through his preaching and leadership," Britt, a fellow evangelist who lives in Gallatin, Tenn., reportedly said.

According to the news release, Fordham said he would focus on evangelism as an SBC officer. "Of all the denominations on earth, none has a greater opportunity of fulfilling the Great Commission than Southern Baptists. It is in our grasp," he said. "We must all work together in the 'unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace'. Let Southern Baptists join Jesus in an all-out effort to seek and save those who are lost."

Dever said he has indicated to several inquirers his willingness to allow his name to be placed in nomination, although none of them has promised that they will, in fact, nominate him. "I'm quite happy to turn up at the convention in Greensboro [N.C., where the denomination will meet in June] and not be nominated; that's actually my preference," Dever told an Associated Baptist Press reporter. "But if it's helpful and doesn't take a major time commitment," he said, he will allow himself to be nominated.

Dever said "a number of people" had approached him about being nominated for the VP office - which is largely ceremonial in the SBC - as well as the presidential nomination. He said the time commitment associated with the SBC presidency would cause him to decline a nomination for that position, but that he would serve in the vice-presidential slot.

Dever said he could not characterize those who inquired about nominating him as coming from any particular ideological niche or constituency within Southern Baptist life, but that there were "a bunch of people" who asked him, and that "some of them were definitely not Calvinists."

If he is nominated, Dever will be among a group of candidates for office in what will likely amount to the most contentious SBC annual meeting since fundamentalists solidified their control of the denomination in the early 1990s.

Already, two nominees for the presidential post have been announced. Ronnie Floyd, pastor of First Baptist Church in Springdale, Ark., is widely believed to be the favored candidate of the denomination's conservative power structure. His opponent, Frank Page, pastor of First Baptist Church in Taylors, S.C., will likely be favored by a broad coalition of SBC conservatives who are concerned about the denomination's direction and its inclusiveness of supporters not in the inner circle of powerful conservative megachurch pastors.

Dever said that he is only responding to requests from other Southern Baptist leaders. "I don't really keep up with denominational politics; I want to see Capitol Hill evangelized," he said. "We like the SBC, and we want to give them money...but I like to stay focused on the local church."

Dever's historic congregation, which dates from the 1870s and is located just five blocks from the United States Capitol, currently has 533 members, according to Dever's assistant, Mike Law. However, unlike the vast majority of Southern Baptist churches, its average Sunday-morning attendance exceeds membership. The congregation requires members to attend regularly, contribute and meet certain doctrinal standards to remain in good standing, Law and Dever said. Because of its location, near the homes of many transient young congressional staffers, Capitol Hill Baptist also regularly gets hundreds of Sunday-morning visitors.

Dever said his church had about $1.9 million in undesignated receipts in 2005 and forwarded $150,500, or 7.5 percent of that total, to the Southern Baptist Convention. The church stopped contributing to the national denomination through the District of Columbia Baptist Convention after the SBC's North American Mission Board de-funded the convention in 2002. According to multiple DCBC sources, Capitol Hill was one of two member churches whose leaders raised concerns with SBC officials about alleged liberalism in the small regional convention.

Dever said Capitol Hill Baptist sends its SBC budget giving directly to the denomination's Executive Committee and doesn't pass it through any other state convention to the SBC's Cooperative Program unified budget.

Fordham, meanwhile, is a member of Harp's Crossing Baptist Church in Fayetteville. The congregation, which listed an average Sunday-morning attendance of 870 in 2005, reported $1.57 million in undesignated receipts that year and forwarded $157,813, or 10 percent, to the Cooperative Program. It also gave $48,265 for the Lottie Moon Christmas Offering for International Missions and $26,994 for the Annie Armstrong Easter Offering for North American Missions.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian
KEYWORDS: baptist; calvinist; movedtoreligion; pastor; reformed; sbc

1 posted on 05/26/2006 1:54:38 PM PDT by WKB
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To: tutstar; DieHard the Hunter; NZerFromHK; Miss Maam; Michael Goldsberry; wmfights; TFMcGuire; ...
Baptist ping

BTW our fellow baptist "full court"
has been banned or suspended.
2 posted on 05/26/2006 1:55:51 PM PDT by WKB (D.L. Moody "The Bible was not written for your information, but for your transformation")
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To: WKB

I guess he was pre-destined to make this attempt.


3 posted on 05/26/2006 1:56:42 PM PDT by Arkinsaw
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To: Arkinsaw

but was he predestined to win???


4 posted on 05/26/2006 1:57:41 PM PDT by WKB (D.L. Moody "The Bible was not written for your information, but for your transformation")
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To: WKB
Neo-Calvinist running for office in the SBC????
The "B" in SBC still refers to Baptist doesn't it or am I behind the times?
5 posted on 05/26/2006 2:00:31 PM PDT by OB1kNOb (This is no time for bleeding hearts, pacifists, and appeasers to prevail in free world opinion.)
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To: OB1kNOb
Neo-Calvinist running for office in the SBC???? The "B" in SBC still refers to Baptist doesn't it or am I behind the times?

There are some baptist with calvinist tendencies. Even my pastor as a few of those tendencies, although not very many. About the only point of calivinism my pastor is hardcore about is security of the believer. OTOH, we don't take it too far; our church sends missonaries to Brazil and South America as often as we can.
6 posted on 05/26/2006 2:03:22 PM PDT by JamesP81
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To: WKB
BTW our fellow baptist "full court" has been banned or suspended.

Do you know why?

7 posted on 05/26/2006 2:05:55 PM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: JamesP81
Even my pastor as a few of those tendencies, although not very many. About the only point of calivinism my pastor is hardcore about is security of the believer.

The problem that develops with that position is that a lot of lost souls end up feeling very secure about their so-called salvation. If the sinner is in control, he can believe for a moment and never let it change his heart, yet he is led to believe that he is eternally secure. It's a spiritually dangerous evangelistic position. That's why we have 80% of the U.S. saying they are Christians and only 9% possessing true saving knowledge.

8 posted on 05/26/2006 2:14:13 PM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
It happened on the this thread
It appears she said something wrong
about one of the FR "Protected Classes"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1636009/posts?page=303#303
9 posted on 05/26/2006 2:19:47 PM PDT by WKB (D.L. Moody "The Bible was not written for your information, but for your transformation")
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; JamesP81

I mainly disagree with the "L" in
the Calvinist TULIP.
"Limited Atonement"
Christ only died for the elect not all the "who so ever wills"


http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.html


10 posted on 05/26/2006 2:23:04 PM PDT by WKB (D.L. Moody "The Bible was not written for your information, but for your transformation")
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
That's why we have 80% of the U.S. saying they are Christians and only 9% possessing true saving knowledge.

Could you enlighten this heathen and tell me what true saving knowledge is?

11 posted on 05/26/2006 3:20:33 PM PDT by Liberal Bob
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To: WKB

Yeah, I thought most Southern Baptists were 4 point calvinists. That's what I was always taught. Though on reflection during my adult life I have grown more comfortable with the limited atonement idea.


12 posted on 05/26/2006 4:07:14 PM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: WKB

Full blown hardline 5-point Calvinism belongs to Presbyterian or (some) Reformed churches. It has no place in the Baptist church.


13 posted on 05/26/2006 4:17:30 PM PDT by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: WKB

Sounds like one of those dreaded business meetings:')


14 posted on 05/26/2006 4:18:59 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: JamesP81; OB1kNOb
There are some baptist with calvinist tendencies. Even my pastor as a few of those tendencies, although not very many.

Oh, my. Good thing Charles Spurgeon isn't around anymore.

15 posted on 05/26/2006 4:22:12 PM PDT by HarleyD ("Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures" Luke 24:45)
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To: WKB
Let Southern Baptists join Jesus in an all-out effort to seek and save those who are lost.

I'm glad they included Him. Maybe a good Calvinist is precisely what the SBC needs.

16 posted on 05/26/2006 4:23:21 PM PDT by HarleyD ("Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures" Luke 24:45)
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To: HarleyD

In Asia churches planted by 19th century British Baptists (explicitly Calvinist) have now joined Presbyterian churches to form new ecumenical denominations, while those planted by American Baptist denoms (officially not Calvinist) remain Baptist.


17 posted on 05/26/2006 4:24:42 PM PDT by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: Liberal Bob
That's why we have 80% of the U.S. saying they are Christians and only 9% possessing true saving knowledge. Could you enlighten this heathen and tell me what true saving knowledge is?

True knowledge of who God is and who you are, and then yeilding your life to the Lordship of Christ. It means you understand that you are a sinner, that God is holy and justly judges your sin, that Jesus is God, yet He humbled himself and became a man so that He could pay your sin debt for you. That He offers salvation to you by grace alone, through faith alone. And that faith (which encompasses repentance) is evidenced by a changed heart and a lifetime process of sanctification.

It's a lot more than a get out of hell free card.

Example of true faith: Let's say you receive tomorrow's paper today and learn that your home will be destroyed by fire tomorrow afternoon at 2:00pm. Faith means you change everything you do because of that knowledge. It's proof that you really believe it will happen. Saving faith is like that. There will be evidence that you believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and confess that God raised Him from the dead.

18 posted on 05/26/2006 4:26:30 PM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: NZerFromHK; WKB

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm

COME NOW THE REFORMED POSITION HAS ALLWAYS BEEN FOUNDATIONAL TO BAPTISTS.!

p.s.wkb,i don't think your mail is working

5 SOLAS!


19 posted on 05/26/2006 4:26:39 PM PDT by alpha-8-25-02 ("SAVED BY GRACE AND GRACE ALONE")
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To: HarleyD

TOO FUNNY!


20 posted on 05/26/2006 4:29:06 PM PDT by alpha-8-25-02 ("SAVED BY GRACE AND GRACE ALONE")
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

If the right questions are asked, the numbers would probably be a lot higher. there may be a lot of "but..but... how did you get in here?" going on.


21 posted on 05/26/2006 4:39:14 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: CindyDawg

What happened to the "some day", before there?


22 posted on 05/26/2006 4:41:18 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: alpha-8-25-02

5 SOLAS INDEED!


23 posted on 05/26/2006 4:59:41 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:6)
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To: NZerFromHK
Oh please. A simple Google will show the rich history the Southern Baptists enjoyed with great men of the faith like Carey (yes, the great SBC missionary), Spurgeon, Boice, Mercer, Matthew Henry (at least most still use his commentary). Trouble is people have forgotten that most of the great SBC men were Calvinist and followed the Baptist Confession of Faith.

Also may I suggest The Rise & Demise of Calvinism Among Southern Baptists by Tom Nettles

We're coming back. Be afraid...be very afraid...

24 posted on 05/26/2006 5:05:46 PM PDT by HarleyD ("Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures" Luke 24:45)
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To: HarleyD

"We're coming back. Be afraid...be very afraid..."

I JUST MIGHT WATCH THIS FOR A TIME,THE LORD HAS A GREAT SENSE OF HUMOR!


25 posted on 05/26/2006 5:18:09 PM PDT by alpha-8-25-02 ("SAVED BY GRACE AND GRACE ALONE")
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To: WKB

"BTW our fellow baptist "full court" has been banned or suspended."

Let's start a petition or a sit in or something. This has to be a first. A Baptist arguing over doctrine. What is the world coming to?


26 posted on 05/26/2006 6:35:52 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: alpha-8-25-02
p.s.wkb,i don't think your mail is working



It doesn't work when I am not here.
And I have way too on my plate this
weekend to argue with you.
Have a Blessed Memorial Day Weekend.
27 posted on 05/26/2006 7:28:18 PM PDT by WKB (D.L. Moody "The Bible was not written for your information, but for your transformation")
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To: CindyDawg

Sounds like one of those dreaded business meetings:')




Those Business meeting are not much worse than what goes on
here between Baptists. :>)


28 posted on 05/26/2006 7:32:18 PM PDT by WKB (D.L. Moody "The Bible was not written for your information, but for your transformation")
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To: WKB
A cursory reading of Baptist history will reveal that the original baptist confessions (London & Philadelphia) were Calvinistic/Reformation Creeds. Pastor Dever is being true to his historic roots.
29 posted on 05/26/2006 8:34:31 PM PDT by AZhardliner
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To: WKB
"BTW our fellow baptist "full court"
has been banned or suspended."
_____________________________________

I'm not surprised. When someone is so forceful and steadfast in presenting the GOSPEL it makes our ecumenical friends nervous.
30 posted on 05/26/2006 9:19:07 PM PDT by wmfights (Lead, Follow, or Get Out Of The WAY!)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
"True knowledge of who God is and who you are, and then yeilding your life to the Lordship of Christ. It means you understand that you are a sinner, that God is holy and justly judges your sin, that Jesus is God, yet He humbled himself and became a man so that He could pay your sin debt for you. That He offers salvation to you by grace alone, through faith alone. And that faith (which encompasses repentance) is evidenced by a changed heart and a lifetime process of sanctification."
_______________________________________

Thank you, that was well said.
31 posted on 05/26/2006 9:25:09 PM PDT by wmfights (Lead, Follow, or Get Out Of The WAY!)
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To: WKB

I have always had the sneaky feeing that Baptists were just dipping Presbyterians.


32 posted on 05/26/2006 9:50:10 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar; Dr. Eckleburg

We like them dipped in chocolate.


33 posted on 05/26/2006 10:10:06 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (2341 - 2 is divisible by 341 even though 341 = 31 11 is composite)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
I see, so you are not really talking about knowledge as being salvation, for many have knowledge of Christ being the Son of God and are not saved.

Mark 1:23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, 24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with you, you Jesus of Nazareth? are you come to destroy us? I know you who you are, the Holy One of God. 5:6 When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and bowed down before him. 5:7 Then he cried out with a loud voice, “Leave me alone, Jesus, Son of the Most High God! I implore you by God – do not torment me!” 5:8 (For Jesus had said to him, “Come out of that man, you unclean spirit!”) 5:9 Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, “My name is Legion, for we are many.” 5:10 He begged Jesus repeatedly not to send them out of the region. 5:11 There on the hillside, a great herd of pigs was feeding. 5:12 And the demonic spirits begged him, “Send us into the pigs. Let us enter them.” 5:13 Jesus gave them permission. So the unclean spirits came out and went into the pigs. Then the herd rushed down the steep slope into the lake, and about two thousand were drowned in the lake.

Your are talking of "faith alone" needed to receive grace alone, like the Conversion of Saul in Acts 9?

Or could it be that man has little to do with his own salvation?

John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." 44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." 66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

It kind of reads like the Holy Ghost may have a hand in our salvation "true saving knowledge."

34 posted on 05/26/2006 10:47:08 PM PDT by Liberal Bob
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To: Liberal Bob
Knowledge leads to true faith, but the knowledge itself doesn't save you. You are right to point that out. Thanks. But some think that people can be saved by Christ without even knowing His name. You cannot confess and believe things you have no knowledge of, nor can you put faith in something you have never heard of, or of which you haven't even a basic understanding. That's why preachers that preach half the gospel or a false gospel are so harmful. They make there people think they are already saved.

Romans 10:9-18

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"

16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; ")THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."

35 posted on 05/27/2006 6:49:03 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
Knowledge leads to true faith, but the knowledge itself doesn't save you. You are right to point that out. Thanks. But some think that people can be saved by Christ without even knowing His name. You cannot confess and believe things you have no knowledge of, nor can you put faith in something you have never heard of, or of which you haven't even a basic understanding. That's why preachers that preach half the gospel or a false gospel are so harmful. They make there people think they are already saved.

So true! And it is obviously the reason for the great commission. But as it is pointed out in verse 15 "How will they preach unless they are sent?" Faults teachers do not have the Holy Ghost, nor can someone hear, as Christ said, "unless the Father has enabled him."

Mark 4:10 When he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 4:11 He said to them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those outside, everything is in parables, 4:12 so that although they look they may look but not see, and although they hear they may hear but not understand, so they may not repent and be forgiven.”

Christ was referring to Isaiah’s Commission:

Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the sovereign master say, “Whom will I send? Who will go on our behalf?” I answered, “Here I am, send me!” 6:9 He said, “Go and tell these people: ‘Listen continually, but don’t understand! Look continually, but don’t perceive!’ 6:10 Make the hearts of these people calloused; make their ears deaf and their eyes blind! Otherwise they might see with their eyes and hear with their ears, their hearts might understand and they might repent and be healed.”

So it does appear that the Father is selective on whom He enables to hear the knowledge you speak of. So why would He do that? I can not answer questions of the Spirit but maybe Paul gives us a hint:

Rom 9:10 Not only that, but when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our ancestor Isaac – 9:11 even before they were born or had done anything good or bad (so that God’s purpose in election would stand, not by works but by his calling) 9:12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger,” 9:13 just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

I do believe that His calling is done by the Holy Spirit and not by a preacherman and no man can convict himself of his sins without the help of the Holy Spirit. God left man with his total freewill from the time of Adam until the time of the flood. He looked down and: Gen 6:6 The Lord regretted that he had made humankind on the earth, and he was highly offended. After the flood He promised us no more floods and His whole approach on how He deals with man changed.

Rom 9:16 So then, it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God who shows mercy.

God bless and have a good Memorial Day weekend.

36 posted on 05/27/2006 10:04:39 AM PDT by Liberal Bob
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To: 1000 silverlings
We like them dipped in chocolate.

Presbyterians prefer chocolate sprinkles. 8~)

37 posted on 05/27/2006 10:59:39 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: NZerFromHK; OB1kNOb
I would direct you all to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" from 1689. Baptists have a rich Calvinistic heritage. On the other hand, the dispensational theology found at many Baptist Churches today is a modern innovation (as is Dispensationalism in general).
38 posted on 05/27/2006 11:42:33 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: WKB

but was he predestined to win???


As a Calvinist, he's already elected.

8-)


39 posted on 05/27/2006 12:51:40 PM PDT by kaehurowing
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To: WKB

A TULIP bttt.


40 posted on 05/30/2006 1:12:10 PM PDT by MayflowerMadam
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