And it's said men are simple?
Hmmm...
I'll stand by. 
Posted on 06/11/2006 10:23:04 AM PDT by dangus
I took a good year off from relationships so I could concentrate on my graduate studies. It’s very interesting being an impartial observer. I live in a very “blue-state” region of a red state. Most of the people I know who have gotten married were about 39 ½. They are all very good, even admirable Christians, but they have waited so long to reproduce, they’ll be lucky if all the plumbing still works. From my observations, it’s downright crazy how preposterously dysfunctional the dating scene is. For the survival of the species, I offer my observations. Ladies (and if you’re offended at being called that, this probably isn't written for you), I’m addressing you not because you are more to blame (so please don’t take this as misogynist), but simply because, being a man, I can see more clearly what is counterproductive. For instance, as a guy, I know that women consider it positively evil for me to wear unattractive footwear, but I can’t imagine why. People don’t actually look at my feet do they? I hope all will discern when my own tongue is in my cheek (as opposed to the footwear I am quite certain will shortly be joining it).
The single most important rule is this: before you ever think of complaining to other women that there aren’t any good men around, look around the room. If there is one guy in the room whom you think is at all worth considering, bite your tongue. I don’t mean only if there’s some guy you’ve been wanting to come over and ask you out; I mean if there’s one guy who does not have a serious, objective flaw that makes him absolutely inappropriately dating material, for you or for whoever it is you’re going to gripe to. Because let me tell you this, once you open your mouth, not one man in that room will ever date you or your friends.
You know how sexy it is when a guy drools over every woman’s breasts? Yeah, well, complaining about the lack of men is that sexy. It’s also a completely gratuitous put-down of every man there that you haven’t shamelessly flirted with. Think about it, you’re saying, “I’m really desperate to find a decent guy, but you don’t qualify.”
You can probably also write off any of that guy’s friends. In dating, men take the initiative, women play defense. Therefore, women’s friends help play defense; men’s friends help a guy take initiative. They pick apart every possible flaw in a guy. Men don’t do that; they actually encourage each other. A man might never think of putting a woman down, but if a guy thinks you’re desperate and either snotty or lame (and believe me, he will), he simply might be less than enthusiastic when his buddy asks if what he thinks of you. And that can be worse than the most vile put-downs your friends might have about your boyfriends.
If a guy who you are not interested in DOES ask you out, under no circumstances let anything negative be heard from your lips. To put it bluntly: losers don’t look for cheap screws among women who don’t put out. No matter how far beneath you you might consider the man, recognize that he’s probably got virtuous intentions and has really put himself out on the line because he thinks highly of you. I promise you, if a guy who knows him, even if he’s not THAT close of a friend, hears you disparage the man, you will be considered a cold, cruel, obnoxious bee-yotch.
Secondly, consider your objectives. Remember having to bite your tongue because there were no good men around? Well, ask yourself: Do you want men to ask out only those women who they are confident will say, “yes,” or do you want men to be bolder, and take a chance? If you prefer the former, you’d better be prepared to flirt so shamelessly every other woman in the place will hate you.
And, by the way? Flirt. I can’t tell you how many women would never pick up a guy at a dance club or a bar, but only ever flirt at dance clubs or bars. Some women seem to think that if they flirt at a church function the guy will just think to himself, “shameless hussy.” Honestly, the guy’s thoughts will range from “wow, she’s really nice” (if you are subtle) to “wow, she thinks I’m hot” (if you are brazen).
You have to remember, men and women are different. If a man of average attractiveness walks up to a strange woman and exclaims, “Wow! You have a nice butt!” the woman will probably be horrified and take a shower for about three hours. If a woman of average attractiveness walks up to a strange guy and says, “Wow! You have a nice butt!” do you know what the guy’s thoughts will be? “Well, in an unscientific survey with a small sample size, 100% of strange women who commented on the my butt found it attractive. I should wear jeans more often.”
Now, suppose you flirted with a guy and tells his friend, “I think she likes me.” Does that mean that his friend will think you’re easy or desperate if you ever flirt with HIM? Absolutely not. He’ll think, “He's crazy, she likes ME!”
Which brings up a weird topic: women express friendship in ways similar to what men reserve for sexual affection. Being friendly and expressive to everyone is great, but reserve some behavior for flirting. I know an amazingly attractive woman, who smiles beautifully, makes a lot of physical contact, and oozes warmth and affection. And she can’t get dates. She’s not interested in guys who know they’re hot stuff, and so expect women to be hot for them, and those are the only types who aren’t rather intimidated by her beauty. But she can’t seem to convey flirtiness, as opposed to being just friendly. But don’t be less friendly; it’d be better to be blatantly sexually flirty. (By sexual, I don’t mean lewd or sinful; I merely mean behavior which is categorically not merely platonic.)
Seriously, sexual forwardness in someone known to be a “good, Christian woman” is actually a good thing. Don’t promise what you won’t deliver; that’s what being a tease is. Don’t walk up to a guy, slam him against the car, and give him a kiss that peals the paintjob off, and then tell him you’re busy washing your hair next Friday. But even as brazen as THAT behavior is, nothing suggests any promise of fornication, as long as all the body contact is, umm, “family-friendly.” Such behavior DOES suggest you are having strong sexual urges, but that’s a good thing; Christian men don’t want to marry frigid women. Keep in mind, of course, that aggressively chasing after the hottest guy in the room is every bit as shallow and unattractive as men chasing after the woman with the biggest breasts; I’m strictly talking about dealing with someone you LIKE but who may be somewhat intimidated. And, give the guy a chance, first… A guy SHOULD be able to be the hunter, and the idea is to inflame his passions, not scare the pants off of him. (I’m arguing with my internal editor whether I should rephrase that.) Also, keep your intentions clear; you don’t want the guy to believe you’re a danger to his mortal soul.
And this is a weird thing. I’ve gone off and on the path in my life, and I can tell you this: there seems to be a direct correlation, in women, between religiosity and cruelty towards undesired suitors. I’ve gotten wrong phone numbers. The dance clubber who gave me a wrong number also kind of gave me a flat smile, so I sort of felt as it happened, “I think I’m barking up the wrong tree.” There’s little injury to realizing you simply misread someone. But there seems to have been a contest among the Christian women who’ve given me a wrong number for who could be most convincing. A warm, sincere-looking smile is one thing; one woman actually clasped both of my hands in hers, kissed me on the cheek, and said, “I can’t wait.” And I can tell you this: I have never, ever been stood up by a non-Christian. Ladies, if wrong numbers seems to be an effective way of rejecting a guy, please know it is only because cruel deceit is a huge turnoff. “No, I only sleep with farm animals” is an equally effective rejection that slanders your Christian virtue less. Have the decency to be a bad actress!
I hope it doesn’t seem like I’ve taken a misogynous turn at the end there. It’s just that Christian men seem to at least be aware that deceit in relationships is immoral; the continuum is from playah to faithful man. I’m not so certain that Christian women know the harm in deceitfulness.
OK, now for the men. (This is shorter only because men really are very simple; if you ask a guy what he is thinking and he says “nothing,” he either is telling the truth, or you really don’t want to know.) Men, besides wearing ugly footwear, you know what evil things you do. Knock it off.
So...If we flirt, then by God, we better put out, or we're liars AND hussies?
What? Just the opposite! How did you get that? I said to flirt away!
To wit:
>> "Don’t promise what you won’t deliver; that’s what being a tease is. Don’t walk up to a guy, slam him against the car, and give him a kiss that peals the paintjob off, and then tell him you’re busy washing your hair next Friday. But even as brazen as THAT behavior is, nothing suggests any promise of fornication, as long as all the body contact is, umm, “family-friendly.”" <<
Maybe i put to many paranthetic clauses in so you didn't catch what I was saying... even fantastically brazen flirting doesn't suggest any promise of fornication...
Maybe I'm confused, but it seems like that's what you're saying here. You seem to accept that men should be the initiators, but then you place the burden on women to be approachable and open about what they want.
I'm not trying to fight about it, but I think you're talking about two different kinds of women here as one.
Well, yes... if a woman wants to be approached by a man whom she likes, she should be approachable.
But I'm certainly not calling anyone who acts approachable a hussy! Quite the opposite, I assured that she will not be considered a hussy.
BTW, I'm sorry if we got off on the wrong foot because of my first post; that came off a little crankier then I had anticipated. :-) I married the first guy I actually dated, so maybe I should just move along.
All I meant to say by mentioning teases is to say, "hey, being a little forward is not being a tease, so go ahead, and be forward if you need to be; you're not making any promises."
No, actually, I know I'm discussing a VERY dicey subject... If something has the potential for being misread, I'd like the chance to clarify it!
And it's said men are simple?
Hmmm...
I'll stand by.
*I met my bride in high school She had long strawberry blonde hair and she used to wear white dungarees and a pink turtleneck and she always used to walk past my locker and give me a big smile and say hello. She was the sexiest, nicest, warmest, smartest, woman I have yet met.
Once, she walked-up to me and gave me a sandwich. "I made this sandwich this morning but I am not that hungry. Your sister told me you liked chicken sandwiches and last night we had chicken and so I made this sandwich.. but I'm not hungry. Here...I'll see you later..."
I kept up my initative for a week or so by standing right beside my locker, nearly tongue-tied, watching her walk up to me, smile and chat a bit. (of course, back then, I'd have driven 500 miles just to watch her walk up and down a flight of stairs) I kept up that initiative until I asked her for a date.
I had worn her down. She went out with me. All it took was a litlte initative on my part :)
Did I say men were 'simple'? No. Stop trying to get me in trouble. :-P
>> Once, she walked-up to me and gave me a sandwich. <<
See, ladies... effective flirting. All that says is, "Hi, I noticed you."
Now, bornacatholic, give your wife a little credit: that took a LOT of initiative on her part... she just concealed it really well...
I pray you have 1/100th the great Blessing I had when I met her
>> Did I say men were 'simple'? No. Stop trying to get me in trouble. :-P <<
OK, folks, break out the popcorn... NOW, I'm going to get in BIG trouble:
No, but I did. =^D. And I think women and men would get along better if women truly understood how simple we are. Heck, half of the men who lie are really wondering at the time, "Is that my cue?"
"She asked me if she gained weight, I told her the truth, that she put on maybe five pounds. She threw a frying pan at me." You have no IDEA how many brain cells are wasted on that riddle! "What's my LINE, what's my LINE!"
It'd be so great if women could just ask, "do you still love me," but then again, it's no wonder she doesn't trust the answer to THAT question... Long ago, he was trained to say, "Sure I love you," by being rewarded with sex.
And that's why smart women know the only acceptable answer to that question is "I do."
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you said that!
(now I'm in trouble!)
Many times men say they have simple needs. I was actually agreeing with you, re: dangus' take on the situation, heh heh.
:^D Thanks.
You are waaaay over thinking the male/female relationship thing. I learned early on that problems with the opposite sex (for either men or women) is confined for the most part to introverts. I can't think of a single example in my enitre life of an extroverted individual who did not do well with the opposite sex.
It really is that simple.
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