NO MORE CHRISTIAN NICE GUY: WHY BEING NICE--INSTEAD OF GOOD--HURTS MEN, WOMAN, & CHILDREN [BK REV]

BOOK OF ABOVE TITLE FROM BETHANY HOUSE PUBLISHER | 2005 | PAUL COUGHLIN; Review by Quix

[Quix]

This book is excellent. It speaks to thoughts, feelings, facts I've long had strong similar to identical convictions about.

Excerpts from Dr Laura's Foreword:

" . . . sold more than one million copies of [I] The Proper Care And Feeding of Husbands [/I]"

. . .

"I expected a huge, ugly backlash. . . . the general public--especially the men--was incredibly receptive. What touched me the most was the sad, pained, resigned letters I received from so many nice men who were suffering deeply. These men explained that while they were deeply in love with their wives, those wives were literally on a countdown: When the kids were all grown and gone, the men were going to leave as well. Why? Because they were abused and neglected. The abuse did not take the form of physical violence; it was much more subtle nagging, criticism, berating, demeaning, dismissing, and rejecting that has become commonplace in American marriages where men are looked upon as side dishes, not the main course."

" . . . When Gloria Steinem enthusiastically proclaimed that 'Women need men like fish need a bicycle,' more than one generation of women was sent in the wrong direction in their search for love, security, bonding, and the joy of a quality marriage. Instead, women's organizations support behaviors that leave women alone and men designated as unimportant: unmarried sex as entertainment, shacking up without a commitment (marriage), single-mothering as a choice, abortions as birth control, no-fault divorce at will, men as oppressors or predators, and so forth. I often ask these women what they intend to say to their male children about their importance in this brave new female-oriented world. They don't have an answer."

"Because we hardly raise men to be anything masculine anymore, we have at least two generations of men who have no clue what it means to be a 'man.' Hence too many guys are, as I have lamented many times on my radio program, [I] males [/I] instead of [I] men. [/I]"

". . . Today's males have had their innate urge to provide and protect removed from their spines, guts, heads, hearts and souls."

". . . .The whole blame, in their minds, is on the men! Unbelievable! When I bring to their attention that for every step of the way (unmarried sex, all birth control has risk, living together without marriage, no spiritual center to their relationships) they were complicit, they get angry with me. It seems that women have been trained to have 'no rules' but still blame men when things don't go as their fantasies would lead them."

. . . .

"The bottom line is that men are blamed for their own and women's misbehaviors. Somehow that doesn't seem to be thmentality you'd expect from groups that espouse 'empowering' women."

" . . . It's clear to me that there isn't a consensus on what 'being a man' means. Women give mixed, confused signals and messages because women are basically confused between what they're being indoctrinated to want and what they really want. Clint Easwood, Keanu Reeves, Kevin Costner, Russell Crowe, Denzel Washington, and others are examples of strong, primal animal men. Women are drawn to such strength (epitomized by the high-school bad boys) because biologically, women are drawn to men who can provide and protect so that they can be safe raising their babies. . . . "

". . . . I can't tell you how many times I've had to remind men that they are [I] men [/I], and that this designation is not about biology; it is about strength, will, honor, courage, leadership, sacrifice, compassion, and love."

- - - -

Quote at the beginning of chapter 1:

"The ordinary man is passive . . . . Against major events he is as helpless as against the elements. So far from endeavoring to influence the future, he simply lies down and lets things happen to him.

--George Orwell

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Chap 1:

"WHat do you think would happen if Jesus were to appear at your church next Sunday and say to people what he says in the Bible?

'Hypocrites!'

'White-washed tombs.'

'Fools!'

'Dull.'

And 'a brood of vipers fit for hell!'

Given how [I] nice [/I] the church expects Christian men to be, I think we'd rush the pulpit and wrest the microphone from his hand. 'Tsk, tsk, tsk,' we'd mutter scornfully. We'd wag our fingers, reminding him of the supreme importance placed on manners and appearances in this holy place. Some women, reaching for soap bars to wash out his mouth, would recite our unofficial church motto: 'If you don't have anything nice to say, Jesus, don't say it at all.' [I] He really should be ashamed of himself.'"

"Shame is big in the church. Helps keep guys in line. Keeps their heads down. Keeps them humble. Supposedly."

"Actually, without shame, guys might be able to live the vital life God intended. This world would be a lot better.

"Instead, we have [I] passive, naive Christian Nice Guys.] [/I] We sit next to them in church all the time, not realizing their identity is being squashed, their will being broken, the lives of those who love and depend upon them being diminished as well. Everyone loses when we follow a false ideal."

". . . . Many sermons we hear are designed to make Jesus appear [I] always [/I] approachable, [I] always [/I] calm, and [I] endlessly [/I] patient. That's fiction . . . this mild Jesus has more to do with EAstern mysticism than with the gospel record. He did [I] not [/I] remain 'above it all,' emotionally hovering above us silly little humans. He got down in the muck and mire of life with us. He really lived; he really felt ey-watering joy and soul-crushing pain. He didn't assume the Lotus, drinking tea and finding us mildly amusing while trying to clear his head of conflict and division. Jesus, the dissident, brought the world both--the kind of conflict and division needed to shake things up for our own good."

"I created my own sanitized, unauthorized translation, [I] The Nice Guy Bible (NGB), [/I] which I continue to see a lot of other guys carrying around. I rewrote some parts and took others out of context to hide from God and from what he really wanted of me. I kept this distortion of Jesus neatly in my mind, the way a Nice Guy feels he should, until it was destroyed by an unusual and unexpected epiphany: Christ's humor. His blessed sarcasm helped me begin to see how he [I] actually [/I] lived and talked, as opposed to how I'd thought. A mental fog lifted. At last my life received a long-needed clarity. I neared the red-hot bonfire of truth, which warmed and saved me. A greater taste for life awakened."

. . . .

"Bill Hybels says that passive christians repel non-Christians from the faith:

[Hybels quote]:

I've learned through the years that seekers are not impressed with spinelessness . . . . Most of the time, seekers . . . . respect and admire christians who aren't afraid to take a stand . . .

Let me say it once more: Seekers have little respect for weak Christians. Deep down they're looking for somebody--anybody--to step up and proclaim the truth and then to live it boldly. (Becoming a Contagious Christian, 63-64)

- - - - -

"The convincing, repetitive message of my inherent worthlessness helped lay waste to my life in disasterous ways, stealing my passion, energy, and resources, and churning my gut, which is where resentment and anxiety live. . . . "

. . .

“The church told me to worry more about sin tan purpose, more about keeping up with appearances than searching for and embracing meaning. More about what I shouldn’t do than what should do. More about being nice than being good. Fear of failure, of falling short, of trying, but not being perfect, has us paralyzed, immobile, and,eventually indifferent. “

“Fear-based religiosity creates dangerous tension that ruins marriages, careers, children—sometimes even our souls. We [I] should [/I] avoid sin, for many reasons—that it separates us from God and from life are atop my list. [I] But so does the immobile life. It’s just harder to diagnose.” [/I]

. . . .

“Another who has noted the perplexing prevalence of Christian male passivity is theologian R. C. Sproul, who says,

‘When I became a Christian, I understood tha Jesus took my sin away. What I never heard from Him was that He intended to take my backbone away.’”

“ ‘Nice’ can’t confront this world’s sources of pain. Niceness makes people agreeable, not good. Somehow we have mistaken niceness for righteousness.”

. . . .

“The meaning of the word [I] nice [/I] is as unreliable as the people it describes. Today it is synonymous with ‘pleasant’ and ‘agreeable,’ but it has also meant ‘effeminate,’ ‘unmanly,’ ‘unable to endure much,’ ‘dainty,’ ‘reluctant,’ ‘ignorant,’ and ‘difficult to please.’ Nevertheless, remarkably, Christian men can be shunned in church and home if they are not unfailingly pleasant, agreeable, and in possession of impeccable manners. These attributes of niceness are taken to be expressions of a Spirit-filled life, yet none of these words or concepts are biblically mentioned as part of the Spirit’s fruit.”

“Besides, the mind of a Christian Nice Guy is anything but pleasant or agreeable. For reasons explained later, these men are often secretive and manipulative. They harbor hissing resentments, and, given all the games they feel they need to play just to survive, their wives ([I] If [/I] they can hold on to a wife) may come to question their own sanity. Though they inwardly exhaust themselves in their determination to hide it, they are easily irritated and frustrated. When nasty behavior surfaces, they may mistakenly or dismissively explain it away as the result of testosterone fluctuation or work place preoccupation. They may label it a kind of male menopause, which is the trend today, or give it a name like Irritable Male Syndrome, which largely ignores a profound spiritual component.”

“Appearances are deceiving, as this wife of a CNG laments:”

“Before we were married, he did all types of things to prove he handled issues. Two weeks after the wedding, off came the gloves. And he told me under no circumstances am I to open my mouth. I barely made it through the first year. I have struggled to stay married to him. . . . “

“His attitudes, mood swings, explosive screaming fits, all the things he has held in, all come out . . . .My husband tells me all the time he is just a Nice Guy. He isn’t, and he isn’t nice to be married to, either.”

There’s a 25 item quiz one can consider to measure their degree of likelihood of being a CNG. It’s worth prayerfully pondering. It’s on pages 21-22.

Coughlin covers Christ’s humorous and biting sarcasm very illuminatingly, refreshingly.

And, he adds on pp44-45:

“Nice, tame, spiritually arrogant people often don’t get or appreciate sarcasm because it disrupts the status quo. [I] Sarcasm bothers them because it stimulates the necessary work of self-criticism, a cornerstone of moral credibility.” [/I]

“But blessed sarcasm does help the weak and needy. Said one subscriber to Hartman’s site [Christian humor site]: ‘I struggle with severe chronic depression. Sometimes the only way I can get going in the morning is by reading your jokes. I just wanted you to know someone appreciates what you do. Christ loves him, you and me enough to wield the mighty and poignant sword of sarcasm.”

He has good chapters on masculinity; working with, in and ministering in and out of one’s passion; and how to have a healthy humor, sarcasm, fierceness after the pattern of Christ.

I think this is a very timely and crucial book. I think it’s one that most every Christian man would profit from reading. Thankfully, those who love them would profit from the men applying their new knowledge and insights in their relationships and lives.

He cautions about jumping off the deep-end with this end of the spectrum, too. I think he has written a very balanced and Biblical book that goes a long way toward correcting a lot of misconstrued constructions on Christianity and about Christ.

I strongly recommend it to any and every thoughtful Christian man. Women could also gain fruitful insights into their men.

[Quix]

AND PRAISE THE LORD for some of us not getting the programming!

Blessings,

[Quix]

In the jargon of this weekend's PK conference:

"YUP, YUP!"

[Quix]

Interesting.

I suspect you could also get it from Bethany House's site--ACTUALLY, I had to find it there. Didn't seem to be listed at PK. But I noted other attractive meaningful volumes at PK below--for those interested.

NO MORE CHRISTIAN NICE GUY:

http://www.bethanyhouse.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=360E9371EE2645E3843D2D91EA7B79AB&nm=Search+by+Topic&type=EcomBB&mod=E%2DCommerce%3A%3AProduct+Catalog&mid=70B7D6357AC74DCE82EF28E7D375E854&tier=3&id=CEB8879375E94868978E4ABD006930AA

Here's the PK main site.

http://www.promisekeepers.org/

This is the link for the also excellent: 7 QUESTIONS of a PK by TOM FORTSON; HANK HANEGRAAFF

1. Is Earth a Privileged Planet?
2. Is the Resurrection mere wishful thinking or did Jesus Christ rise from the dead, thus demonstrating that He is God?

3. Is the Origin of The Bible divine or is it merely human?

4. What makes Men so strategic to the proper ordering of a society?
5. How does the Promise Keepers movement address the danger of Isolationism?

6. How can I progress from survival to Significance?
7. Why is it so crucial for Promise Keepers men to develop an Eternal perspective?:

http://www.promiseproducts.net/2006-Unleashed-Conference-Feature-Books-C23.aspx


WHY CHRISTIAN KIDS REBEL

and

WHEN BAD CHRISTIANS HAPPEN TO GOOD PEOPLE

and

WHEN THERE'S NO BURNING BUSH

are at this page:

http://www.promiseproducts.net/Topical-C24.aspx

AND

WHAT GOD DOES WHEN MEN PRAY

here:

http://www.promiseproducts.net/Prayer-C26.aspx

STRATEGIES FOR A SUCCESSFUL MARRIAGE in Spanish:

http://www.promiseproducts.net/Spanish-C27.aspx

A CASE FOR A CREATOR

and

MADE TO COUNT

and

BEING GOD'S MAN AS A SATISFIED SINGLE

HERE:

http://www.promiseproducts.net/PK-Promise-1-Walk-with-God-C133.aspx

GUARD YOUR HEART

EVERY MAN'S BATTLE

EVERY YOUNG MAN'S BATTLE

THE WAR WITHIN

HERE:

http://www.promiseproducts.net/PK-Promise-3-Purity-C135.aspx

THE MARRIED GUY'S GUIDE TO GREAT SEX

FATHERHOOD ABORTED

INLAWS, OUTLAWS AND THE FUNCTIONAL FAMILY

SHE CALLS ME DADDY

EXTREME MARRIAGE

ROMANCING YOUR CHILD'S HEART

WHAT KIDS NEED MOST IN A DAD

LAUNCHING YOUR KIDS FOR LIFE

DAUGHTERS GONE WILD; DAD'S GONE CRAZY
Authors Charles Stone and daughter Heather Stone write about how Dad's can weather the storms of raising a daughter during the tough teenage years. As you travel with the Stones through these stormy years you'll learn the nine relationship 'Life Preservers' to which they clung - life preservers that can see you through your storms as well.

HERE:

http://www.promiseproducts.net/Daughters-Gone-Wild-Dads-Gone-Crazy-P1245C136.aspx

BLIND SPOTS PAPERBACK

HERE:

http://www.promiseproducts.net/PK-Promise-6-Unity-C138.aspx

REACHING THE WORLD IN OUR OWN BACKYARD:

http://www.promiseproducts.net/PK-Promise-7-Evangelism-C139.aspx

[Anthem]

-- Let us by all means love even our enemies, for this is right, and God commands us so to do, in order that we may be the children of our Father who is in heaven, "who maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." But as we praise these His gifts, lets us in like manner ponder His correction of those whom He loves.

It's when we become instruments of His correction that we are tempted to erect ourselves as principals of His domain.

[Mr. Jeeves]

Besides, the mind of a Christian Nice Guy is anything but pleasant or agreeable. For reasons explained later, these men are often secretive and manipulative. They harbor hissing resentments, and, given all the games they feel they need to play just to survive...

That's not just a "Christian" problem, it's a generic "Nice Guy" problem.

And it's one of the major reasons why women don't like them. The passive-aggressive, untrustworthy, self-deceiving manipulator is the one who most loudly proclaims himself to be a "Nice Guy".

But the article is amusing, as the author seems not to understand that the whole history of the Christian Church has been about the grinding down and molding of men into "Nice Guys" for the benefit of the priests and kings who intend to rule over them.

[Quix]

Good points, imho.

But it's a book of some 224 fairly densely packed pages.

[Campion]

the author seems not to understand that the whole history of the Christian Church has been about the grinding down and molding of men into "Nice Guys" for the benefit of the priests and kings who intend to rule over them.

Bah, humbug.

Besides, the mind of a Christian Nice Guy is anything but pleasant or agreeable. For reasons explained later, these men are often secretive and manipulative. They harbor hissing resentments, and, given all the games they feel they need to play just to survive ...

That doesn't describe a single Catholic saint I can think of. Not even remotely close.

And it doesn't remotely describe the most important Christian male role model of all, Jesus Christ.

[walden]

"It's clear to me that there isn't a consensus on what 'being a man' means. Women give mixed, confused signals and messages because women are basically confused between what they're being indoctrinated to want and what they really want. "

Men who are looking to women to figure out how to be a man are looking in the wrong place. And, vice versa.

[Quix]

And it doesn't remotely describe the most important Christian male role model of all, Jesus Christ.
= = = = =

THAT'S the point of the book!

[Quix]

Men who are looking to women to figure out how to be a man are looking in the wrong place. And, vice versa.
= = = =

Certainly true.

Though a man who can't or won't meet most of his spouse's needs and some of her wants, is at least a much poorer man in many ways.

[185JHP]

"Here's the deal: you, a male, get to do 100% of what your grandfathers did, that benefits us (females). We'll put as much responsibility on you as possible, expect you to do the most dangerous, debilitating work, while denying you authority, respect for bravery, and decision-making prerogative. You like?" I never saw Alice tell Ralph "Sweetheart, you're the greatest!" I laughed at "Our Miss Brooks". but mocking and making fun of the Principal was part of the devil's plan to attack men...

[Quix]

wheeeeeeeeeeeeee

MEMORIES!

And now distorted memories brought to you by the globalists and MSM.

[JockoManning]

Thx Qx.

jm: marker to read when U have more time.

[Quix]

Thanks.

[stands2reason]

I hope the issues can be discussed forcefully and passionately without hostility toward personhoods.

Why? What's wrong with hostility?

[Quix]

Depends.

1. It's the rules here. And I choose to respect Jim as a person and to show him my appreciation for FR by following the rules.

2. After all, Scripture exhorts us to respect the designated authorities over us when they don't conflict with God's orders etc.

3. I prefer to respect the personhood of all claiming to be Believers with any reasonable chance that they are. They are, after all, created in HIS image.

4. Fitting hostility for sin, satan, his evils, ideas and positions from hell etc. is different. I'm as passionately against some things hereon as probably anyone on FR. And plenty too much for some sensibilities.

[.30Carbine]

Nevertheless, it is also true that women in the feminist movement have become complicit in the enemy's schemes, goals and actions. imho.

Everyone who is not serving God is serving the devil ( a few references that come to mind). Why do you therefore single out women?

[.30Carbine]

From what I know of the book being discussed (which I have not read but have only heard the author discuss in interviews) your question gets right to the point, the author's very thesis. We must be like Christ.

[Quix]

Of course.

In the context of the wimpiness of men etc. I think women of the "modern" feminist movement do have some measure of added guilt/responsibility for their complicit worsening of the situation.

Yes, men are responsible for their choices and behaviors. However, given the attraction chits women have over men, it's clearly true that men jumping through all the hoops women have been increasingly given in our era to demand that men jump through . . . thereby the problem has been worsened beyond what men would likely have been guilty of on their own.

Looked at another way, the women have sown to the wind and are reaping the whirlwind in terms of the impact of their feminizing impacts on the men.

I don't know how realistic it is to expect many men to shape up in the masculinity department when so many women are demanding that they do the opposite or are giving them maddening double messages about it. Men don't handle double messages well at all. Their brain structures and thinking habits are too linear in orientation and focus.

I have a hard time believing that women are thoroughly innocent and not at all responsible for their share of the problem. In fact, I don't believe that at all and am highly unlikely to ever believe that.

[Quix]

Of course, we are all called to become like Christ . . . recognizing that He is the author and finisher of our faith and of us as we cooperate with Him in the refining process.