Posted on 10/19/2006 5:44:54 PM PDT by split
Actually isn't speaking in tongues a "spiritual gift" .. as opposed to "fruit of the spirit" ...
I think that's the BIG difference ... fruit is something that comes about as a result of the change of heart that can (should) be manifest in ALL Christian's lives.
Spiritual gifts are not as clearly stated ... and more open to interpretation .. and not neccessarily manifest in ALL Christian's ... some will receive gifts that others do not. I DO think that often folks are so wrapped up in wanting a specific "gift" that their emotions get the better of them and they "create" it on their own...
I don't discount that it may/can happen - I just don't think that it's as common as some would like...
BUT I think the FRUITS of the Spirit are what you see manifested after one is saved. It's especially telling when an adult comes to know the Lord. Recently our neighbor underwent a very quiet change ... it's become more and more apparent that he came to know the Lord .. he has stated so and at age 68 was baptized. His salvation is apparent in the fruits he has shown since his salvation... It was quiet ... no hubub .. except for not a dry eye when he was baptized. (His baptism not being his salvation - but an outward, public acknowledgement of his salvation)
It comes across as Matthew 6:5 on steroids.
Good example. I think of the Septuagint as another example along those lines.
I believe the miracles of the Lord have a function, which is to spread the gospel to as many people as possible. Right now we don't quite have as much need for the gift of tongues as the original Apostles did. After all, how many languages is the Bible available in now? But I think it would be back big time if it were truly needed to teach the good news.
Simply that. A language one experiences while in private prayer. I'm not sure I can explain it beyond that.
"But, all the different doctrines can't be right. Why associate yourself with error, as you see it, for the sake of unity? To me, that smacks of the liberal's "inclusiveness"."
Here's the thing: You think your interpretation is correct, or at least the interpretation of your denomination or pastor. So do the members of other denominations think their interpretations are correct. Which is right? How do you know? Each denomination has studied scripture and believes it has the true interpretation.
I understand fully the reasons for the differences. What I do not understand is one Christian saying of another that he or she is wrong and not a "true" Christian, based on these differences.
I had been in a motorcycle accident and my knee was really messed up. I was on crutches, could barely walk and my knee was really swollen up. I wasn't praying for a healing during that service, but during that prayer service my knee suddenly had this strange warmness to it and the pain was gone. I reached down and felt my knee and I could feel the fluids rushing out of the knee,
I even had my super skeptical friend (A Baptist) feel it and he could feel it too. Within a couple of minutes, the swelling had gone away and I could walk and jump and run. I haven't had a problem with that knee since. Now my other knee.... :-)
After that I wasn't too skeptical of divine healing and speaking in tongues.
"On the day of Pentecost there were people of many tongues there and once the Holy Ghost arrived, each person spoke in his own tongue and yet was understood by all. Clarity of communication not babble."
Exactly. It existed so that EVERYONE could understand. What's going on now, NOBODY can understand. What occured on Day of Pentecost is diametrically opposed to modern-day speaking in tongues. If someone is babbling some kind of gibberish, it most likely isn't coming from God. (Could it be... SATAN?)
Here's the thing. Where did the the Southern Baptists say the man was not a "true" Christian. Read the article. I didn't find it.
They just said that he was in error, and that they could not support that error. I would agree with their right to do so even if I disagreed with their position.
It's like full immersion baptism. You have to undergo it to be a Baptist, but unlike, say Catholics, Baptists do not believe it has any power toward salvation at all. And they do not think Christians in other denominations are not Christians, either. Think of it as an initiation.
I believe so. Besides being the Father of liars, Satan is also defined as "The author of confusion".
That is amazing! That warmness or electric feeling I can testify to as well. So do many others. That part about the fuids and swelling is cool. A friend of mine had a bad allergic reaction to oven cleaner which made her hands swell and turn red. Her wedding band started to squeeze tight on her finger and was stopping circulation. She had the 700 Club on TV while she was getting ready to go to the hospital. Pat Robertson was praying and got a word of knowledge describing a woman with her condition who was getting healed. She accepted it and then felt a ball of heat hit her in the stomach and it radiated out towards her hands. The pain stopped and the redness/swelling disappeared completely with 10-15 minutes.
That's a great point! Couldn't have said it better myself!
That's a great quote.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
"A language one experiences while in private prayer."
__________________________
Is it a language that if you were to write it down could be understood by someone else? If not I think this is why Baptist's don't believe in it.
I'm not in to "tongues".
English suits me fine when communicating.
There's no need for it.
Where does the Bible suggest we do it, TODAY?
That's part of my point--not a known earthly language but-- A heavenly language.
However, a close friend of mine . . . with a Native American ancestry on one side of her family . . . and a heart for the tribal groups of all Native Americans . . . was once on a missionary type visit to several Northwestern tribes.
At the end of the service, often, IIRC, standing around in a loose cluster of folks . . . all praying together out loud . . .
IN THREE SPECIFIC DIFFERENT CASES WITH THREE DIFFERENT TRIBES OF THREE DIFFERENT LANGUAGES . . . after the closing prayer time of praying out loud together . . . an old member of each tribe would turn to her and ask her where she had learned the ancient more eloquent version of their language--AND WHAT A BEAUTIFUL SUMMARY OF THE GOSPEL STORY SHE'D JUST SPOKEN OUT DURING THE PRAYER TIME.
She'd had no awareness she was doing so. She was just "praying in tongues" as usual. She was rather stunned by the 3rd time on the same trip.
In my initial tongues experiences . . . there tended to be lots of "holy Spirit goosebumps." Over time, the walk by faith vs feelings became the priority.
I fussed about such to The Lord several times and He finally seemed to have enough of my fussing and asked me if Salvation was by faith or feelings. Faith, of course. H noted that tongues were Biblical. And exhorted me to continue praying in tongues in faith AND TRUST HIM THAT HOLY SPIRIT WAS CONVEYING THE PERFECT MEANING TO HIM REGARDLESS OF THE 'GIBBERISH' SOUND OF MY VOICE.
I've done so and God has continue to confirm such from time to time with His special blessings and touches. But most of the time, it's a walk of FAITH. Who'd a thunk! /sar
I've never observed that Holy Spirit cares very much for our silly private interpretations; doctrines of man and certainly not the doctrines of demons that parade as truly truest true truth in so many groups--seemingly particularly naysaying groups.
So, in the interet of equal time . . . should we have postings of strange services and experiences; questionable happenings in
NON Charismatic/Pentecostal churches?
Or are we expected to believe that such happen only in charismatic/Pentecostal churches?
ROTFLOL!
SCRIPTURE
AGAIN! LOL.
God said it. I believe it. God repeatedly confirms it. That settles it, for me.
Though . . . I realize the rationalization machines resident in so many believers are still in excellent functioning order to naysay anything uncomfortable or 'intolerable' to their PERSONAL sensibilities.
I think a lot of times, Holy Spirit doesn't disturb such folks . . . seemingly preferring to let them sleep.
But I think times are a changing. I expect that before Christ returns, there will be relatively few authentic Christians on the naysaying side of this issue. FAR TOO MAN PROVEN DEMONSTRATIONS OF GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT MAJESTY AND POWER WILL HAVE BECOME FAR TOO COMMON.
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