Posted on 12/06/2006 6:18:21 AM PST by NYer
Vatican archaeologists have unearthed a sarcophagus believed to contain the remains of the Apostle Paul that had been buried beneath Rome's second largest basilica. The sarcophagus, which dates back to at least 390 A.D., has been the subject of an extended excavation that began in 2002 and was completed last month, the project's head said this week.
"Our objective was to bring the remains of the tomb back to light for devotional reasons, so that it could be venerated and be visible," said Giorgio Filippi, the Vatican archaeologist who headed the project at St. Paul Outside the Walls basilica.
The interior of the sarcophagus has not yet been explored, but Filippi didn't rule out the possibility of doing so in the future.
Two ancient churches that once stood at the site of the current basilica were successively built over the spot where tradition said the saint had been buried. The second church, built by the Roman emperor Theodosius in the fourth century, left the tomb visible, first above ground and later in a crypt.
When a fire destroyed the church in 1823, the current basilica was built and the ancient crypt was filled with earth and covered by a new altar.
"We were always certain that the tomb had to be there beneath the papal altar," Filippi told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.
Filippi said that the decision to make the sarcophagus visible again was taken after many pilgrims who came to Rome during the Catholic Church's 2000 Jubilee year expressed disappointment at finding that the saint's tomb could not be visited or touched.
The findings of the project will be officially presented during a news conference at the Vatican on Monday.
Man, that's alot of words. I thought Christianity and reading the Bible were supposed to be simple.
I read Moses and Elijah appearing to, and talking with Jesus. Jesus said we'd be able to do the things that He did.
So you believe churches are unbiblical, too? Those are intermediaries to God, as well. We could all sit at home with the Bible and pray.
Okay, the way I framed what you're referencing here, I can see how you came to that conclusion. So I withdraw my last post to you on that. Sorry.
The way I should have wrote it before, as far as "theorizing about the behavior of abstract aggregates," is that we really don't have to "theorize" at all about this.
In fact, you can be very scientific. Go back over as many newspapers as you want that have ads addressed in thanksgiving to other-dimension saints. Then tell me how many of these ads thank both God or Jesus as well as the dead saint. (I'll give you a clue: There aren't that many).
Those ads are indeed real prayerful behavior--real behavior that can be scientifically measured--it's not simply abstract heart judgments.
This has to be one of the funniest posts I've ever seen on FR. Not intentionally funny, but I need a new monitor, nonetheless.
Can't you read with the tiniest bit of comprehension? I didn't say Jesus 'sinned'. What is so hard for you to understand that YOU or ME, can't say and do absolutely everything that Jesus did? Another most basic example: Jesus said He was the only way to salvation. If YOU say that, it is sin. For Jesus to say that, it is truth, NOT SIN.
Let me know when thousands of fellow-Christians close their eyes and beam out their prayer requests to me simultaneously, thus tacitly attributing omniscience to me.
I'll beam back that they're all idolaters.
So just when do you plan on getting crucified, raising up from the dead in three days, getting transfigured, and having a chat with some saints, just like Jesus?
Jesus said we'd be able to do the things He did.[Cap'n Crunch]
First of all, some of things that He did we will do -- just not in the time & space dimension you think. (For example, we can each have plenty of conversations with all of the saints for eternity; secondly the "transfigured" clothes of Christ will be similar to our white robes described in Revelation).
But the key caveat in all of this is that it's just not going to happen in our timetable/spacetable.
Again, the context that we're talking about here is the transfiguration. What? You're going to next tell me that you or most disciples can exercise a "transfiguration option" button they can just push and thereby "do the things He did" in following in His example? Your transfiguration ain't going to saintly happen this side of heaven.
Bottom line: Jesus set a very good example of talking with Moses and Elijah. I plan on following that example. (I'm just going to wait for the proper time & place to do that).
All that refers to is the behavior of people who put ads in newspapers thanking saints for favors. It doesn't tell you a thing about "most folks who pray to saints"; the sample is self-selected.
Personally, I think assuming that St. Jude reads the newspaper but isn't satisfied just to hear you say in your heart "thanks, St. Jude, and thanks be to God" is well, flaky, but whatever floats their boat.
Jesus was chatting with Moses and Elijah before he was crucified; in fact, one of the Gospels indicates that his upcoming Passion was exactly what he was talking about.
Well, obviously I don't have to be crucified, since Jesus suffered that for me. I will be raised from the dead, but I don't know how long it will be.
I have had chats with saints though, and it is wonderful. Some of my favorites are St. Michael the Archangel, St. John Vianney, St. John Bosco.. and they have interceded for me, thanks be to God.
And how could I forget Our Lady, Queen of Saints?
What an awesome God we serve.
It's a sin for me to say that Jesus is the only way to salvation??
Hmmm... Maybe I should give him a shot... after all, I drank a ton of his stuff when I was a kid, but being a kid, never called him by his first name.
You know what I meant...
True, my bad ordering.
Not really. The referents of pronouns matter. If I say "I am the way, the truth, and the life," I'm not saying what Jesus said, because the referent of the pronoun "I" is different. So your example doesn't really prove what want it to prove.
Yes, the Church could be described as an "intermediary" insofar as it also has the title of "the body of Christ."
First of all, it's exactly because it's recognized by God as His Son's own continuing body on earth (a body he acts through like his 33-year history) that it has such special status. As such, we intercede for one another.
But this body on earth is no substitute for the "throne of grace" mentioned in Hebrews 4:16: "Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy & find grace to help us in our time of need."
I'm sure this verse hasn't been excised out of any Roman Catholic Bible yet. So there is hope it's being widely practiced.
But, judging by the ads I read in newspapers re: communication addressed to other-dimensionly saints, I would say that the very testament of their lives shows me they have redefined Hebrews 4:16 to read: "Let us then approach the throne of grace with great timidity, because we best receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need by addressing the saint who specializes in that area."
I've heard it said, that some folks so reverently and awesomely regard Jesus or the Father as one so unapproachable, that they humbly only feel "at home" addressing a saint.
But such folks neglect Heb. 4:15 in so doing: "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way just as we are--yet was without sin."
Jesus walked on water, he turned water into wine, he healed the sick. There is nothing prohibiting me from doing any of these things. I would no doubt fail, but it would not be a sin.
You're really hung up on this newspaper ad stuff. The authoritative teaching of the Church isn't found in newspaper ads. Don't confuse what the Church believes with what you read in the classified section.
I'd say the time of Adam...
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