Posted on 07/07/2007 7:48:37 PM PDT by tnarg
Mark it down as biblical truth: There is no pre-tribulation rapture.
However, untold thousands believe in the "secret rapture of the church" prior to the tribulation period. This is because untold thousands don't want to have to think of suffering through a tribulation time frame. The late Corrie ten Boom called this pre-trib rapture teaching the "American doctrine." Go figure.
The belief in a secret rapture of believers before the tribulation is also because of a best-seller, "The Late, Great Planet Earth," by Hal Lindsey which was set loose in the l960s. It has been a paperback aggressively pushed by practically every evangelical / fundamentalist engine going.
Theologians, videos, films and preachers bolster up this myth with their earnest preachings and teachings.
Yet this is nothing but a myth, accented as much by certain theologically conservative Protestant segments similar unto the Roman Catholic underlining of the immaculate conception of Mary. Nevertheless, if there is no biblical support for such a Mariology teaching, it is bogus. Likewise, the pre-tribulation rapture teaching is bogus.
The pre-trib rapture concept was manufactured in the 1800s in an 18 year old Plymouth Brethren girl's dream, told to her Pastor, John Darby, and then relayed to C. I. Scofield who bought into the dream as revealed truth. Scofield placed this pre-tribulation rapture notion as a footnote in his popular Bible, hence the spread of the myth.
However, just the opposite is biblical truth. In Matthew 24:29-3l, for instance, the rapture ("gathering together") is placed in the same time frame as the open second coming of Jesus Christ. And all of this is "after the tribulation" (verse 29). That is it in a nutshell!
Yet pre-tribulation rapturists sidestep this clear passage for more oblique passages. The latter are twisted and turned in order to fit into the "American doctrine." Yet such twisting is not sound exegesis. And for biblically-riveted evangelicals and fundamentalists to commit this drastic error is bordering on the horrific.
All other passages in Scripture relating to the "gathering together unto Him" must refer back to the literal time line provided by Jesus in Matthew 24.
One must not use a symbolic passage in the Book of Revelation or any other symbolically-based section of the Bible by which to draw a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.
Further, one must not take words of the apostle Paul so as to insert them opportunistically into a conjured pre-tribulation string of Scripture references. Yet this has been done ad infinitum.
Instead, Jesus' literalism of Matthew 24 must be used as the benchmark for all other "gathering together" themes of Scripture.
One starts with literalism and moves into symbolism when seeking to understand Scripture; it is not the other way around.
During the 1970s and 1980s there was much written and preached about a pre-tribulation rapture. This has wound down some in the last decade or so. Why?
Today, with the world situation being what it is, there is not that much risk-taking in preaching dogmatically the pre-tribulation rapture. Why?
Is it because there are many who are beginning to question its validity? Is it because the world state is so uncertain that to go out on a limb with a false hope may ricochet?
One wonders, with world events progressively becoming more and more anti-Christian, why the pre-tribulation rapture persons are not celebrating each dawn as the day when Jesus may return to earth.
Such is not the phenomenon on a large scale. Furthermore, it may be because the next generation has not bought into this notion.
In any case, it is a myth, a legend of conservative Protestantism's own conjuring and has no base in the Holy Scriptures.
Yet these very Protestants are the ones who ardently point out the myths of Catholicism while holding to some of their own myths. Both segments of Christendom need to do some serious housecleaning of manufactured legends in order to return to the simple Bible truths; otherwise, the church suffers from severe lack of knowledge.
What is so frightening about holding to a pre-tribulation rapture? It is more than mere academic quibbling. Holding to such a notion is drastically weakening the church worldwide.
The church should be preparing for spiritual battle against the most evil forces arrayed by hell.
Instead, the church is languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by the demonic powers in order to eventuate in a limp army of believers. And to see that through in this age of laxity in religion does not take much on the part of the dark powers. In addition, the apostate segment of religion is doing its fair share of blackening truth.
Does it take much intelligence to realize that there are awesomely wretched days yet ahead for the righteous remnant?
Those who are not strong will drop--fall away, as biblically predicted. They will be too numerous to contemplate. But for those who are truly into carrying the daily cross there will be nothing able to thwart their zeal for Christ.
Already the remnant is being strengthened by the Spirit of light. He is gathering His own together in the power of the resurrection and the might of the revealed Word. There numbers are few; but their ardor before the Father is lovingly honored.
Set your vision upon the difficulties yet to be. They are but the trials permitted by the coming Christ.
At the close of the tribulation period, then there will be the gathering together of the believers from the four corners of the earth. They will greet Jesus in the clouds as He descends through space, having left the right hand of the Father in heaven.
The gathering together ("rapture") and the second advent then will be realized as one and the same event occurring at the end of the tribulation time frame. Jesus' declaration in Matthew 24:29-3l states it clearly.
jesus said it.
But He didn't say it to the Gentile church...Jesus told Paul what to say to the Gentile church...
Jesus created the Gentile church to provoke the Jews to jealousy...The Jews are not yet jealous...They don't believe we Christians are heaven bound...
The only way they will know we are heaven bound is if we head on out and leave them behind (Rapture)...
But Lo, God is not done...God will put the Jews (and all that rejected Jesus in THIS age) thru a Great Tribulation to try to provoke them to accept the Messiah, one more time...
To reject all the scripture that speaks to that because Jesus didn't mention it in person to the Jewish diciples in the book of Matthew is a little confusing to me...
And no doubt, all that scripture in Zechariah and some of the other Minor Prophets, as well as Ezekial, etc. that has scripture that NO ONE can intelligently expound on will likely be revealed to the Jews during this Tribulation period, just as the Pre Trib Rapture was revealed to the church when the time was getting close...
All I can say is, What A Book...What A God...
Humanity is already under His judgment. Ever read Gen. 3? Believers are not exempt from suffering. What is judgment for those without faith is a test for those who have put their faith in Christ. What difference does it make whether its during the “Great Tribulation” or any other time in human history? This teaching caused a great many Christians in China to throw off their faith because missionaries told them they would be “raptured” out. When Mao took over these Christians suffered great tribulation, yet without the promised “rapture.” Those who did not renounce their faith became the seedbed of a great renewal that going on in that nation today. That is how God has always done things. He winnows out the apostates from the visible Church, and from that remnant a more faithful Church grows anew.
No one was “ratured” during Noah’s flood. Noah and his family went through the judgment, safe in the Ark of safety, just as also Christians go through tribulations of all kinds safe in the arms of the Savior.
You are mistaking those “taken away” in Mt. 24 with the rapture. The ones taken away are not “raptured,” they are swept away in the fury of God’s wrath. Read that portion of scripture carefully without the blinders of Pre-tribulationism.
It's just that I don't agree with the idea of rapture and truly believe it to be dangerous. It seems to have a very strong hold on many wonderful Christians today, including many in my family.
Please allow me to tell you, as I tell them, - If we are all raptured away then there is no problem but if someone comes, claiming to be Christ saying let's gather together so he can rapture you away - Do Not Go.
The one that comes first is Satan, pretending to be Christ, as I believe the Bible tells us. When the true Christ arrives, at the seventh and last trump, we are all changed. Wait for that and do not be taken.
2Thess.2:8. And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
9.Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10.And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved.
11.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12.That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
I believe that rapture is the lie that is causing the "strong delusion" and God sends it to test us.
......Ping
I don't believe it was Paul's letter that confused the people...
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
It appears that there were some 'brethern' going around telling the Thessalonians that the Rapture and the 2nd Coming of Jesus (the Day of the Lord) were the same event...And the Thessalonians were thinking they missed the Rapture...
We will all experience Satan's tribulation before Christ arrives.
1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
No wrath to come for Christians...And again,
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Paul is telling these folks that they DID NOT miss the Rapture...The proof??? Because the man of sin will be revealed before Jesus Christ His face to the entire World...
And how do we know that the Rapture happens first???
Again, there are many scripture that bear this out:
1Th 3:13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints
When the Lord Jesus comes to take out the man of sin at the end of the Tribulation, His church, His bride, His saints show up WITH HIM.
Much to study here also.
An excellent link. Saving for future reference.
..nonsense
The best treatment of eschatology I ever read was "Things To Come" by J. Dwight Pentecost. It may still be in print.
Amen. Taken, as used there is much the same as, "I was "taken" by a con artist." It's not a good thing.
yes yes yes. you actually got it. hopefully some of the others still in the dark will get it.
Have no fear...Satan can't 'Rapture' anyone...When God says 'Come up Hither', you are already past Jupiter and the Constellations and you are headed North faster than the speed of light...Remember, in the twinkling of an eye...
You can wave at the Big Dipper as you go by...
When you bought the salvation ticket, the Rapture was included at no charge...It's a package deal...And no refunds...
Jesus (nor Satan) is going to email you and ask if you are ready to go...Even if you don't believe in it, YOU'RE GOIN'...Praise God...
jesus never stated rapture and second coming being two separate events.
those who have been brainwashed in that direction say that.
jesus never stated that.
he stated matthew 24:29-31.
Kicking and screaming all along the way?
That is true, however the Tribulation spoken of in Revelation and Daniel is not "Satan's" tribulation, but God's judgment.
So will we all experience "God's Judgment" or will we, like Noah, be taken out before God pours out his wrath upon the earth?
I believe that the Church which exists today will be taken out before God pours out his judgment. We will then be united at the end of God's judgment with the believers in Christ who come to Christ and endure to the end of the Tribulation.
That's what I believe. I may be wrong. I've studied this issue in detail over the last 40 years, and I think that it makes more sense than believing that the Bride of Christ will go through the pouring out of the wrath of God upon the earth.
We will go through Satan's tribulation and many already have. The evil that we have here on earth is the tribulations caused by the adversary. The tribulation that will precede the coming of Christ is GOD's tribulation. Big difference.
“Noah and his family went through the judgment, safe in the Ark of safety, just as also Christians go through tribulations of all kinds safe in the arms of the Savior.”
Tribulations are not the same as the wrath of God or the judgments of God. All men experience tribulations of some kind because of the fall. The church will not experience the wrath or the judgment of God, nor will it go through it. There is no scripture that says the church will experience the “wrath” of God or the “judgment” of God. Jesus experienced that for us as Isaiah 53 clearly states.
What the scriptures do say is that before the second coming, the “marriage” of Christ with His church has taken place and the “marriage” supper precedes the second coming. So if Revelation 19 is correct, when did the church enter heaven for the marriage?
Unless you are willing to state that every Christian who believes in the rapture has "pleasure in unrighteousness," then the lie in II Thess. 2:10 has NOTHING to do with belief in the Rapture.
Most people, if not all, who have pleasure in unrighteousness, (i.e., unrepentant sinners who reject Christ) mock the idea of a Rapture and make fun of those who believe in the Rapture of the Church. They make fun of most Christians, no doubt, but they take exquisite pleasure in mocking those who believe that someday the Church will be raptured to heaven.
So don't go blaming God for sending a delusion go guys like John MacArthur and Chuck Smith unless you are willing to claim that both of them have pleasure in unrighteousness.
/rant
One other thing. If God is sending someone a "strong delusion" it is not as a test, it is as a judgment. God does not send a strong delusion so that they will believe a lie unless that person has already totally rejected the truth.
“How does he interpret that to mean anyone will be raptured out of here and miss it?”
2 Thess. 2:3, “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;” has to be read with the rest of the passage where Paul states, 2 Thess. 2:7-9, “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders”.
Now who is “he who now letteth” that is taken out of the the way? It has to be either the church or the Holy Spirit and if the latter, then the church is gone also since it only exists becsuse of the presence of the Holy Spirit in it. After “he who now letteth” is gone, then the “Wicked” one is revealed “whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders”. So for a time Satan and his anti-christ are given time to do some work, but the Holy Spirit is not present (which means the church is not present) as He was before He was taken out of the way. This is all before the second coming.
Post-tribulation Problems
One of the strengths of the pre-trib view is that it is better able to harmonize the many events of end-time prophecy because of the above distinctions. There are some awkward difficulties with the post-tribulational view:
1) The post-tribulation view requires that the church be present during the 70th week of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27), even though it was absent from the first 69. This is in spite of the fact that Dan 9:24 indicates that all 70 weeks are for Israel. We believe the church must depart prior to the 70th week, before the final seven-year period (see our briefing package, Daniel's 70 Weeks, for further study).
2) The post-tribulation view denies the New Testament teaching of imminency--that Christ could come at any moment--since there are intervening events required in that view. We believe there are no signs that must precede the Rapture.
3) The post-tribulation view has difficulties with who will populate the Millennium4 if the Rapture and the Second Coming occur at essentially the same time. Since all believers will be translated at the Rapture and all unbelievers are judged, because no unrighteous shall be allowed to enter Christ's Kingdom, then no one would be left in mortal bodies to start the population base for the Millennium.
4) Similarly, post-tribulationism is not able to explain the sheep and goats judgment after the Second Coming in Matthew 25:3- 46. Where would the believers in mortal bodies come from if they are raptured at the Second Coming? Who would be able to enter into Christ's Kingdom?
5) The Bride of Christ, the church, is made ready to accompany Christ to earth (Revelation 19:7-8, 14) before the Second Coming, but how could this reasonably happen if part of the church is still on the earth awaiting the Second Coming? If the Rapture of the church takes place at the Second Coming, then how does the Bride (the church) also come with Christ at His Return?
While many diligent scholars disagree, most of their views derive from their presuppositions about the Scripture. The more literal a view, the more there is an adoption of a pre-millennial pre-tribulation position. We encourage you to review the various passages yourself and develop your own conclusions. This is our "Blessed Hope," and you will not find a more exciting and rewarding discovery. This is just a brief overview of a complex subject, so apply 2 Timothy 2:15:
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
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