Conversion Story - Matt Enloe (former Baptist) [prepare to be amazed!]

Enloeapologetics ^ | Matt Enloe

[NYer]

Why I am who I am


My earliest religious memory is that of a 6 year old, standing in the vestibule of the 2nd Baptist Church in Fairfield, Texas. My Aunt was discussing with me the merits of Jesus Christ, and my need for his Saving Grace. I vaguely knew who Jesus was but did know that I wanted to go to Heaven, so the generic sequence that followed, most Christians in the United States will recognize; "Dear Jesus, please come into my heart, be my Lord and Savior. I ask this in the name of Jesus, Amen."

That particular Sunday was in its peak of wondrous splendor, as only those who have experienced Texas weather can attest to. Bright blue sky, completely cloudless of course, and it was in the Spring so it was actually cool natured. I vividly recall the sunlight as it streamed through the beautiful stained glass windows onto the bright red carpet.

Even at that young of an age, I preferred the simple and grand majesty of old Baptist traditions to those of my parents' 50 year old non-denominational Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. Not that I could properly identify why at the time, I only knew that I loved my Grandparents deeply, and treasured every moment that I spent with them. It was not until many years later that I even discovered this preference, much less why I felt that way.

The only thing I knew, at that time, is that God was "old", and the 70 year old Baptist Preacher made him real in a way that my childhood church did not. I had to be reverent going to my Grandparent's church. God was all powerful and I would respect him, and obey what was said and what was in the Bible. In other words, I developed an awe and respect for God at a very young age.

At the early age of 7 I had my first confrontation with my very religious Grandmother. We were enjoying the infrequent quarterly observance of Communion, as the Pastor read the passages from the Gospels regarding the Lord's Supper.

Oddly enough, I observed the congregation around me behaving in a less reverential manner than that which I was raised to adhere myself to. They seemed almost bored, or annoyed that the service was taking longer than the traditional length of 1 hour to 1 hour and 15 minutes, and were most impatient to leave.

Afterwards, I asked my Grandmother why people had behaved that way. Being the protective yet wonderful woman that she was that recognized my early intelligence she gave it to me straight.

She confirmed what I had thought earlier about the service taking longer than they were accustomed to, and their reaction to it.


I then asked her the question that started the confrontation:


"But he said that it was Jesus' Body [and Blood]."

She gave me a hard look and said:

"Yes sweetheart, but what he meant was that it was done in 'memory of me'. Do you know what a symbol is?"

I was getting confused at this point and responded with something to the effect of:

"It's like a picture that means something, right?"

"Yes". She smiled deeply.


Nothing more was said, but I noticed the several sideways glances that she gave me and I became even more confused. Did I ask something wrong? I decided to keep my thoughts to myself.

I was at odds with what she said and what Jesus said.

"This is my body..." ~Take and eat this in Memory of me.

Not ~"This is the memory of my Body, take and eat it for me."

Why even go through the motions of recreating a scene? According to my childhood church, tradition and memory meant nothing, only Faith.

Read the rest here (and do read the rest - long but riveting!)

[Charles07]

This is:

1382 The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood. But the celebration of the Eucharistic sacrifice is wholly directed toward the intimate union of the faithful with Christ through communion. To receive communion is to receive Christ himself who has offered himself for us.

1330 The memorial of the Lord’s Passion and Resurrection.
The Holy Sacrifice, because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church’s offering. The terms holy sacrifice of the Mass, “sacrifice of praise,” spiritual sacrifice, pure and holy sacrifice are also used, since it completes and surpasses all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant.

[Iscool]

The “thousand year reign” appears nowhere in the sixty-six books, 1,189 chapters, 31,173 verses of the Bible except in this one passage where it occurs six times in six consecutive verses (Revelation 20:3-8). It is not solid study to build an entire system of beliefs about the end of the age and the status of the kingdom on such a highly symbolic passage. More especially when that interpretation conflicts with other plain passages of scripture.

Hmmm...So God instructed John to write Millenium 6 times in one chapter and it is meaningless eh???

Revelation 20:3-8 is the only passage in the entire scriptures that the so-called premillinialists have as the basis for the “1000 year reign.”

Zechariah 14 is about the millenium...Scores upon scores upon scores of verses in the O.T. deal with the millenial reign of Christ on earth...

God created the earth in six days...The seventh day He rested...The entire day...

And prophetically, what is a day worth???

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Beloved, be not ignorant...

That sound like a metaphor to you???

A thousand years is one day...How many years since creation??? 6000 you say??? And what year is it??? 2007...

That's 4000 years B.C. and 2007 years A.D...6 Milleniums...Six Milleniums mentioned in Revelation all in the same chapter??? That's 6 days...The seventh day is rest...

What a coincidence...What a freak accident...What a goofy book, eh??? What a silly God to have John write meaningless things that are symbolic of something or another...

[Charles07]

2 Peter 3

8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day.

No. God is timeless. We cannot fully understand his ways...

[Iscool]

“It has NOTHING to do with sacrificing Jesus again on the Cross or in the Mass...”

That is not what the Church teaches...

So you say...

However, the only One that could and did offer Jesus as a sacrifice was God...

The people that pushed for the murder of Jesus were not what you would call heros...

We realize that your claim is that it is a 'continuing' sacrifice...Like the sacrifice was never completed but Christ MUST continue the suffering He endured for eternity...

We non Catholics, by participating in communion 'remember' the sacrifice and the broken body...We are not interested in claiming His body is constantly in a broken state and we help to break it every time we stick a piece of bread in our mouths...

[Charles07]

“Zechariah 14 is about the millenium...Scores upon scores upon scores of verses in the O.T. deal with the millenial reign of Christ on earth...”

Eh??

Zechariah
Chapter 14

1
1 Lo, a day shall come for the LORD when the spoils shall be divided in your midst.
2
And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.
3
Then the LORD shall go forth and fight against those nations, fighting as on a day of battle.
4
That day his feet shall rest upon the Mount of Olives, which is opposite Jerusalem to the east. The Mount of Olives shall be cleft in two from east to west by a very deep valley, and half of the mountain shall move to the north and half of it to the south.
5
And the valley of the LORD’S mountain shall be filled up when the valley of those two mountains reaches its edge; it shall be filled up as it was filled up by the earthquake in the days of King Uzziah of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, shall come, and all his holy ones with him.
6
On that day there shall no longer be cold or frost.
7
There shall be one continuous day, known to the LORD, not day and night, for in the evening time there shall be light.
8
On that day, living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea, and half to the western sea, and it shall be so in summer and in winter.
9
The LORD shall become king over the whole earth; on that day the LORD shall be the only one, and his name the only one.
10
And from Geba to Rimmon in the Negeb, all the land shall turn into a plain; but Jerusalem shall remain exalted in its place. From the Gate of Benjamin to the place of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate; and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s wine presses,
11
they shall occupy her. Never again shall she be doomed; Jerusalem shall abide in security.
12
And this shall be the plague with which the LORD shall strike all the nations that have fought against Jerusalem: their flesh shall rot while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall rot in their sockets, and their tongues shall rot in their mouths.
13
On that day there shall be among them a great tumult from the LORD: every man shall seize the hand of his neighbor, and the hand of each shall be raised against that of his neighbor.
14
Judah also shall fight against Jerusalem. The riches of all the surrounding nations shall be gathered together, gold, silver, and garments, in great abundance.
15
Similar to this plague shall be the plague upon the horses, mules, camels, asses, and upon all the beasts that are in those camps.
16
All who are left of all the nations that came against Jerusalem shall come up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the feast of Booths.
17
If any of the families of the earth does not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, no rain shall fall upon them.
18
And if the family of Egypt does not come up, or enter, upon them shall fall the plague which the LORD will inflict upon all the nations that do not come up to celebrate the feast of Booths.
19
This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to celebrate the feast of Booths.
20
On that day there shall be upon the bells of the horses, “Holy to the LORD.” The pots in the house of the LORD shall be as the libation bowls before the altar.
21
And every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holy to the LORD of hosts; and all who come to sacrifice shall take them and cook in them. On that day there shall no longer be any merchant in the house of the LORD of hosts.

[Iscool]

The terms holy sacrifice of the Mass, “sacrifice of praise,” spiritual sacrifice, pure and holy sacrifice are also used, since it completes and surpasses all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant.

Again, the sacrifice of praise has nothing to do with eating flesh...

Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Again, you guys are mis applying scripture...Don't you hate it when the bible corrects your dogma???

[Charles07]

“However, the only One that could and did offer Jesus as a sacrifice was God...”

Jesus IS God...

Jesus is High Priest...

[Charles07]

Shame on you...

Get your head out of the sand.

Leviticus 7

7:12 ean men peri ainesewV prosferh authn kai prosoisei epi thV qusiaV thV >>>>>>>>>>>>ainesewV<<<<<<<<<<<< artouV ek semidalewV anapepoihmenouV en elaiw lagana azuma diakecrismena en elaiw kai semidalin pefuramenhn en elaiw

Hebrews 13

13:15 di autou [oun] oun anaferwmen qusian >>>>>>>>>ainesews<<<<<<<<<<<<<< diapantos tw qew toutestin karpon ceilewn omologountwn tw onomati autou

[Iscool]

8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day.

No. God is timeless. We cannot fully understand his ways...

He said, 'be not ignorant'...Who told you God was timeless??? It wasn't God that told you that...

[Iscool]

Jesus IS God...

Exactly...And He offerd the sacrifice of Jesus...NOT the so-called church...

[Charles07]

“We are not interested in claiming His body is constantly in a broken state and we help to break it every time we stick a piece of bread in our mouths...”

??

John 20

25
So the other disciples said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands and put my finger into the nailmarks and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26
Now a week later his disciples were again inside and Thomas was with them. Jesus came, although the doors were locked, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.”
27
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and see my hands, and bring your hand and put it into my side, and do not be unbelieving, but believe.”
28
17 Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

You deny that He is both very God, and very man??

[Charles07]

“Exactly...And He offerd the sacrifice of Jesus...NOT the so-called church.”

...

tsk, tsk

[Iscool]

Leviticus 7

7:12 ean men peri ainesewV prosferh authn kai prosoisei epi thV qusiaV thV >>>>>>>>>>>>ainesewV<<<<<<<<<<<< artouV ek semidalewV anapepoihmenouV en elaiw lagana azuma diakecrismena en elaiw kai semidalin pefuramenhn en elaiw

Hebrews 13

13:15 di autou [oun] oun anaferwmen qusian >>>>>>>>>ainesews<<<<<<<<<<<<<< diapantos tw qew toutestin karpon ceilewn omologountwn tw onomati autou

So What's your point??? You have a Greek word in the N.T. comparing it to a Greek word in the O.T. where it doesn't belong to try to convince someone they are the same???

[Charles07]

“He said, ‘be not ignorant’...Who told you God was timeless??? It wasn’t God that told you that...”

He is infinite, yes or no? :)

[Iscool]

You deny that He is both very God, and very man??

You're gettin' off the beaten path...

[Charles07]

Leviticus 7

12 ean men peri ainesewV prosferh authn kai prosoisei epi thV qusiaV thV >>>>>>>>>>>>ainesewV<<<<<<<<<<<< artouV ek semidalewV anapepoihmenouV en elaiw lagana azuma diakecrismena en elaiw kai semidalin pefuramenhn en elaiw

12
When anyone makes a peace offering in thanksgiving, together with his thanksgiving sacrifice he shall offer unleavened cakes mixed with oil, unleavened wafers spread with oil, and cakes made of fine flour mixed with oil and well kneaded.

[Charles07]

“You’re gettin’ off the beaten path...”

No, that is what was insinuated...

[Iscool]

He is infinite, yes or no? :)

Don't rely on common sense...It's not trustworthy...

But yes, God is infinite...But he also understands we don't have an infinite mind...That's why he lays this stuff out for us...

[Charles07]

“But yes, God is infinite...But he also understands we don’t have an infinite mind...That’s why he lays this stuff out for us...”

Exactly.

[Iscool]

12

When anyone makes a peace offering in thanksgiving, together with his thanksgiving sacrifice he shall offer unleavened cakes mixed with oil, unleavened wafers spread with oil, and cakes made of fine flour mixed with oil and well kneaded.

In Hebrews, the people don't make a thanksgiving offering of PEACE...They make a 'sacrifice' of PRAISE...

With their lips...The verse explains that...