Mary and the Problem of Christian Unity

Coming Home Network ^ | Kenneth J. Howell, Ph. D.

[stfassisi]

“”Scripture calls Mary blessed—of God.

I see no reason to disbelieve Scripture, ever.

I believe Mary was blessed of God . . “”

Thank you, Dear Brother

I wish you a Blessed Evening!

[Campion]

similar to that hoaxed at Fatima

"Hoaxed" by whom? 70,000 people saw the sun "dance" in the sky, and appear to fall to earth. Atheists saw it. Communists saw it. It was reported by secular newspapers all over Portugal, and seen as far west as the Canary Islands.

No human did that. No human could do that today.

So that leaves either God, or the devil. If God did it, it's no hoax. If the devil did it, he could only have done it if God permitted it, since he can do nothing that God does not permit.

And if God permitted it, he permitted the devil to "hoax" three innocent children, and then 70,000 bystanders. What did God say about those who misled little children? Something about a millstone and being cast into the sea? Doesn't he then fall under his own condemnation?

But there's another problem. The children were taught to say the following prayer at the end of every decade of the rosary:

O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those most in need of Thy mercy.

Do you seriously think the devil could teach anyone that prayer, even if God permitted him to do so? Do you think he would teach anyone that prayer?

[Campion]

Christianity does not support that. In fact, it goes counter to Christ’s own words.

It's right there in the Bible. God made your salvation contingent on Mary's cooperation. He sovereignly chose to do that.

[Campion]

It is interesting that the RC . . . who was it . . . Malachi Martin? saw one more Pope after this one—and that THAT Pope would be evil??? But that was an RC seer. He supposedly did get a long string of things right about a long string of Popes.

You're confusing the "prophecies" allegedly attributed to St. Malachy, an Irish bishop who died in 1148, with Malachi Martin, a rather eccentric Jesuit priest and author who died about 5 years ago.

Malachi Martin was not much of a "seer" (nor did he claim to be one). In fact, he wrote a (fictional) book a few years before the election of John Paul II which basically predicted that the next pope would be a communist.

Reality didn't quite work out that way.

[stfassisi]

So that leaves either God, or the devil. If God did it, it's no hoax. If the devil did it, he could only have done it if God permitted it, since he can do nothing that God does not permit.

We know it came from God because it deepens the love of our Lord.

[Quix]

Fatima has the books documenting the dozens upon dozens of correlations with classic UFO phenomena . . . including the ‘sun’ dancing in the sky etc. etc. etc.

WHEN you have read even summaries of the documentation—such as available at

HTTP://WWW.ABOVETOPSECRET.COM . . .you can search their site for he threads there . . .

THEN

we MIGHT have a fruitful discussion. Though it would likely have to be off FR because all the RC foaming at the mouth and fingers would begin to obscure the screens.

[Quix]

In terms of satan counterfeiting things . . .

Scripture is quite clear that he will—and so skillfully, that it would deceive the very elect, were that allowed to be possible.

Also, that satan’s Anti-Christ will

WAGE WAR WITH PEACE . . . and appear as A MAN OF PEACE . . . probably supported by all kinds of miracle working angels of light—again—such a appeared at the Fatima scenes.

I used to accept the phenomena of Lourdes as authentic Christian. I’m no longer allowed that luxury because I know too many details of classic UFO stuff having studied it since 1962.

Biased blindness is not a good route to truth.

So, yes, I can imagine satan counterfeiting all kinds of nice sounding prayers.

[Quix]

You’re right. I was confusing the two. I don’t even try to keep up on all that stuff and it’s not significant enough to me to carry around in my active memory.

[Quix]

My observations of quite a number of RC’s relating to the phenomena are that it intensified worship of Mary . . . especially the caricature of Mary created partly by centuries of the RC magicsterical and partly added tons to by the Lourdes phenomena.

I know some cousins of my Mother. They were as backslidden and away from God as anyone could be. They got stuck up in Montana somewhere. And they needed to get to Texas or some such. And they didn’t have any money. So they decided to hold a short little revival. One of them played guitar well and the other could preach pretty well. So they did their thing strictly for money without having a relationship with God at the time worth a lick.

And FOLKS GOT SAVED WHO ARE STILL SAVED AND SERVING GOD, TODAY.

God can use lots of things to strengthen relationships with Him.

Doesn’t mean they originated IN him.

[Trailerpark Badass]

You’re right. I was confusing the two. I don’t even try to keep up on all that stuff and it’s not significant enough to me to carry around in my active memory.

But you will just casually fling it around in one of your hate catholic posts.

[Quix]

I don’t see it that way.

Mary could have gotten ran over by a herd of runaway donkeys and God could have raised up another virgin from rocks just as He could have raised up children of Abraham from rocks or as the rocks would have cried out worshipping Jesus riding into Jerusalem.

God is NEVER at the mercy of human frailties and decisions.

Mary was a blessed vessel used of God as Christ’s earthly mother for a limited period of time. He quickly emphasized other priorities and then gave her care over to John.

No big deal. A reasonable cultural thing to do. There’s no record of Mary floating around on clouds; walking through doors unopened; walking on water; using automatically cleaning hankies . . . zip, nada, nothing. Her body was laid to rest as normal folks. She’ll experience the resurrection of the Believers like other believers.

And, IF it suits God’s priorities, she’ll likely sternly lecture all the clueless power mongers who selfishly made more of her than God would have preferred.

[steve86]

You're confusing the "prophecies" allegedly attributed to St. Malachy

Glad you caught that. Shows you where Quix gets his information (Father Malachi Martin was a frequent guest on the old Art Bell show). Fits right in with the ET obsession, doesn't it. LOL

[Salvation]

Have you read the other side of the accounts of Fatima?

I am finishing a book of Sister Lucia's memoirs entitled, "In Her Words to the Nuclear Age." It addresses some of your fallacies.

This additional information should get you started:

Our Lady of Fatima, May 13

Litany of Our Lady of Fatima

Last Fatima child buried in final resting place (Sr. Maria's remains transferred to Fatima)

Sister Lucia, last remaining witness of Fatima apparitions, dies at 97

SISTER LUCIA RIP

LAST OF CHILDREN WHO CLAIMED TO SEE VIRGIN MARY DIES AT 97

Last child who claimed to see "Virgin Mary" dies

Virgin Mary Child Dies (Lucia of Fatima)

Mourning for Fatima seer (Portugal declares day of mourning)

Third Secret of Fatima is not fully revealed.

Sister Lucia, last remaining witness of Fatima apparitions, dies at 97

Sr. Lucia, Fatima, and Islam

Mystery Fatima: Death of Lucia Accents Famed Secrets & Area's Hidden History

"No More Secrets," Visionary Said in 2001 (Sr. Lucia Confirmed Russia Consecrated to Mary)

Papal praise at Sister Lucia's funeral

Our Lady of Fatima, ‘counterrevolutionary’ and ‘ecumenical’

Fatima Statue Due at Vatican to Mark a Fateful Day 25 Years After Attempt on John Paul II's Life

Sister Lucia's Unpublished Writings Released - Visionary Reflects on Marian Apparitions

Sister Lucia's Last Moments

Fatima: Case Closed

Rosary Rallies Planned for Fatima Anniversary [Catholic Caucus]

The faithful remember miracle of Fatima, Thousands gather in Washington Twp. on 90th anniversary

[Quix]

Ahhhhh, violating the RC standard of Prottys not telling RC’s what they do and don’t do—yet again—in reverse, of course.

Great consistency that—in doing the oppostite of what one would think would be done—by those screaming about such. I guess the other foot is more suitable?

Or is it that hypocrisy is so !!!!TRADITIONAL!!!! within the RC edifice?

In short—I do NOT hate RC folks at all. I feel a fondness toward even those fiercest against me hereon.

I do hate the Edifice’s encouragement of idolatry and blasphemy and some other hypocrisies, traditions of men etc. But don’t even hate the whole edifice. Just significant chunks of it.

So, I’ve said what I do and don’t do . . . I guess you’re still going to tell me THE TRUTH according to rubber dictionaries, rubber logic etc. about what I do and don’t do though RC’s scream bloody murder if Prottys even hint of doing similarly.

Lovely.

What a pile of stinking Double Standard!

[Quix]

Haven’t read the library worth. Have read significantly.

The gals had lots of Jesuit coaching for lots of decades.

Then there’s that business that the last surviving one had an imposter substituted the last however many years. I never did finish studying that. Was plausible to me, as far as I got. The pics were certainly quite different.

[Quix]

Ahhhhhh . . . more lovely personal assault from the lap of Magnificent, Magical Earth-Mother Mary. How sweet.

Thanks tons for the added points. Much appreciated.

---

It’s amazing such pontifications are evidently supposed to demonstrate to us the superioity of Maryolatry etc.

Very impressive! LOL.

[fatima]

Quix,I have the books to review and to give a rebuttal on the air .This was private between you and me in freepmail.Don’t pull me into your fights.Don’t give info that was supposed to be private between you and me in freepmail on this forum.I am disappointed.You sometimes suprise me.Do not freepmail me any more.Private conversations are just that-private.I said I would read the books-ordered them and would give a rebuttal.I don’t think I will even do that.

[Salvation]

That's the first time I have ever heard about Sister Lucia having an impostor write her stuff. This book analysizes her writing style, too. It does not change. And it was all handwritten without markouts of any sort! If your children had Jesuits for teachers, I will say a prayer for them. Hopefully they did reap some Catholic education. Why were they in Catholic School. It just doesn't sound like you. Guess you are full of surprises.

[Quix]

Fatima, I don’t believe I shared anything publically that you had not already shared publically.

I merely said that you had the materials. You had already shared that on another thread and we’d touched on it back and forth in that other thread publically, as I recall.

I did not say you’d read them nor that you thought XYZ about them.

I think you have falsely accused me, here.

I will try and abide by your wishes.