Skip to comments.What do Mormons believe?
Posted on 05/27/2008 10:29:48 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg
Reading all of these threads about Mormonism, I am utterly confused about what Mormonism is, exactly. What is all of this stuff about Jews coming to America in 600 BC? What is the Book of Abraham and why is Abraham writing in Egyptian Hieroglyphs? What does the book of Mormon? What is the storyline of it?
I am confused as to what all of the Mormon writings are about, and how it is all put together theologically.
Look it up in the Dictionary.
I know Mormons are followers of Joseph Smith who believe they have “restored” the Christianity of the New Testament, but I am trying to learn what exactly is in the book of Mormon.
I’m not a Mormon, but I find in all questions like this, it is good to go to the source:
Well from what I hear/read they do seem to keep some of their odder teachings quiet, such as the special undergarments the ministers have to wear in the temple and whatnot, (not sure of specifics there). There are lots of ‘secrets’ that you don’t hear about much until some higher up defects and spills the beans. Whereupon he is immediatly castigated as an untrustworthy source making up stories.
Essentially Mormonism is a form of classic Aryanism (not Nazism, don’t confuse the two) meaning Jesus was an exalted man and men can become gods like him if they live right.
God lives on some distant planet making spirit babies with his wife to impart into human babies here. They have taught in the past that dark skinned people are that way because they are those that sided with Lucifer (who they teach is the brother of Jesus).
Most of these things will take some research for you to understand why their teachings differ from Reformation Christianity (salvation by grace alone through faith alone for the Glory of God alone — the five solas ) and absorb it all. You can start by going to the LDS website and reading for yourself. I find that any church that holds anything up as equal in authority to the Word of God (inerrant in its original manuscripts, a good translation of which is the NASB but many are getting farther and farther from a literal translation - Eugene Peterson’s The Message is a ridiculous NONparaphrase for example) is not worth your time. When people can hold up extrabiblical revelation as something equal to Scripture as a guide for doctrine and its application, they naturally go farther and farther from the truth. It’s human nature. We have enough subjectivism to deal with when we all agree that only the Bible is authoritative, inerrant, and sufficient for all teaching. (that doesn’t mean you don’t read other things of course)
Here’s the introduction page of the Book of Mormon itself that explains what it is.
That would describe just about every Protestant sect.
Unless of course that one believes that the heavens are not closed, and that God indeed does speak to man, like in times of old, and that all holy scripture is just that, the words given by God to His prophets.
In this day and age, prior to the second coming of Christ, I am grateful that God does have our best interests in mind to prepare us for the great and terrible day of the Lord. I of course am LDS, and put my trust in God, for we are all in His hands, no matter what our faith.
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
"Well I had the right idea with these bastards all along. I get no respect, I get no respect at all..."
That is the message of the LDS Church, that His ways are the same, and the need for prophets and apostles are the same. The reasons are clear as well. Look at the division of modern Christendom, look at how many beliefs and creeds and different doctrines exist.
Here's why it's important to us:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
except for the Joesph Smith thing, the special underwear thing, Jesus brother of Satan thing, grace by faith alone thing, men are gods also thing, etc...
Yeah same as peas and carrots.
MORMONISM vs. CHRISTIANITY
Yeah, but Protestants essentially affirm many of the same basic teachings as the older Catholic and Orthodox Churches (ie...The Holy Trinity)
Mormonism has stuff about Jewish Indians, the planet Kolob and brass plates. I don’t understand what the story is with it.
I know all of that stuff. I want specifics of what exactly Joseph Smith said and taught
It's here if you want to read it.
Not Jewish indians. The peopling of the Americas, as taught by the LDS, were by those of the tribe of Ephraim and Menassah. Jews are from the tribe of Judah.
The brass plates were obtained in Jerusalem, and contained the writings from Adam to the time of the Prophet Jeremiah, all OT prophets. It is these plated that the people had to keep their faith, language, and Law of Moses intact. The plates that were given to Joseph Smith were patterned after the brass plates, and similarly contained the words of God as revealed to these ancient prophets and peoples.
Here is more information on the Brass Plates, not to be confused with the Gold Plates. The brass plates were of a much more ancient date.
For a light reading version of the Book of Mormon, I’d recommend a “A Child’s Story of the Book of Mormon”, by Deta Neeley. It’s out of print but used copies of just about any book are available at http://used.addall.com/ If you decide to buy it, be sure to get the “4 volumes in 1” version, as the earlier editions were printed in 4 separate volumes. It’s a heck of a lot easier to read than the real thing, but sticks to the original story line quite closely.
No thinking person can really believe that the Book of Abraham was literally translated, given what’s known about the source papyri. Some LDS believe that it was “inspired” in some way connected to the papyri, rather than translated.
The book of Mormon was delivered to Joseph Smith one day by an “angel of light” after Smith had been looking into his devining device or sometimes thereabouts.
If you’re a guy, Churtle Dawg, and have a wife - tell her to be on the lookout for the pairs of young male Mormon missionaries who come around to women’s houses while their husbands are busy being productive and proselytize them. You see, every extra woman the Mormon men can get into the Mormon church whose stubborn husbands won’t also come in, the Mormon men get to “have” those extra women in their polygamous harems into eternity, where they will be gods, and the women will have the honor of being barefoot and pregnant endlessly for all eternity. (Sound familiar? Think I’m lying? Do some deep research. I’ve just put it in digest form to save you the trouble, but feel free.)
I turned them down one summer well over thirty years ago.
I was just pointing out that they share one thing: the claim that they are restoring Christianity to what it was before the "evil" Catholic Church corrupted it.
Example:: And now it came to pass that according to our record, and we know our record, and we know our record to be true, for behold, it was a just man who did keep the recordfor he truly did many miracles in the name of Jesus; and there was not any man who could do a miracle in the name of Jesus save he were cleansed every whit from his iniquityAnd now it came to pass, if there was no mistake made by this man in the reckoning of our time, the thirty and third year had passed away; And the people began to look with great earnestness for the sign which had been given by the prophet Samuel, the Lamanite, yea, for the time that there should be darkness for the space of three days over the face of the land. (3 Nephi 8:1-3)
As the Tanners point out: http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no107.htm
One could more easily imagine such long, rambling descriptions coming from someone spontaneously dictating to a scribe (as Joseph purportedly did) than from someone painstakingly engraving each word of a long historical record. Much of the book has the same long, rambling type of narrative one would expect from one author. Those instances of differences could be accounted for by the fact the book plagiarizes extensively from the various authors of the books of the Bible. Joseph copied sections from Isaiah, Matthew, Luke, Paul's letters, etc. For example, in Galatians 5:1 Paul wrote "stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free." This same phrase appears in the Book of Mormon, prior to the time of Christ. Alma 58:40 reads "stand fast in that liberty wherewith God has made them free."..Instead of being a proof of divine inspiration, this is evidence that the book is a modern work. The Old Testament has no mention of Jesus Christ by name, or the Christian concept of baptism. Yet these are an integral part of the Nephite religion during the period before Christ. For instance, in approximately 550 B.C. God instructs the Nephites "repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son" (2 Nephi 31:11).
Also, the Book of Mormon repeatedly borrows phrases from the New Testament (King James Version). The problem is that these are found throughout the Book of Mormon prior to Christ's birth and prior to the writing of the New Testament.
Keep in mind that the apostle Pauls letters were not written in King James English, nor was that apostle even around during Christs 33 years on earth.
The Tanners continue:
Compare the following Book of Mormon passage with the Bible:
Mosiah 5:15 [about 121 B.C.] : Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, . . .
1 Corinthians 15: 58: Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
Book of Mormon Absurdities
Ether 2:16-21; Ether 5; Ether 6:
Characters: Jared & his brother w/extended families plus flocks & herds & various other beasts or animals plus all manner of food for these families & animals.
Action: Eight tree-length barges sailing from the Middle East to America .
Length of trip: 344 days
Barge Ventilation Issues that Jared brought to the attention of the Mormon god::
.Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood (Ether 2:20).
(Now why would anyone think that unstopping a hole in the bottom of a barge would lead to perishing in the flood I cannot imagine why? And if theres water there that would lead to perishing in the flood, wheres the oxygen to be found from that hole?)
Jareds brother complained that there was no lighting inside the barges. The Lord instructed him that they couldn't have "windows, for they will be dashed in pieces" (Ether 2:23). Remember, this supposedly took place thousands of years ago before glass windows, so how would Jared & his brother even know what a window was? That didnt stop inventor Jareds brother, who instructed his god to touch 16 stones in order to "molten out of a rock" so that they would be "even as transparent glass" & hence, light (Ether 3:1-2).
The account of the decapitation of Shiz (Ether 15:29-31) is equally unbelievable. Supposedly the Jaredite civilization came to an end with a terrible battle involving millions of people at the hill Ramah. The Nephites and Lamanites would later choose the very same location for their last battle but named the hill Cumorah The last two opponents were Shiz and Coriantumr. After Coriantumr beheaded Shiz, "Shiz raised up on his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died." Did his head struggle for breath or his body? Either situation is impossible. http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no107.htm
Theologically, the Book of Mormon departs from the historic Christian faith in passages like 2 Nephi 25:23, where it says you "are saved by grace, after all you can do."
Surprisingly, the Book of Mormon--being written really before the Mormon church was organized (the BoM was its impetus) departs from standard Mormon doctrine in the following ways:
No 3 degrees of glory in the afterlife
Hell is eternal, not temporary
No pre-existent spirits
No baptism for the dead practice that the LDS came later & "restored"
No eternal progression or exaltation of men-becoming-gods
No "council of gods"
No polygamy...in fact it's called an "abomination" in the book of Jacob
No temple rituals like what you see in the Mormon church today
Jesus is actually prayed to directly multiple times in 3 Nephi 19...whereas Mormons are told now NOT to pray directly to Jesus...just to pray to Heavenly Father "in Jesus' name"
Jesus is actually worshipped in the Book of Mormon...today, some Mormons worship Jesus; others don't. [Those who want to be known as "monotheists" say they worship only One God]
I believe that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior and that He is the Savior of the whole world. I am a Mormon.
Wow, I'm not sure my wife would appreciate me having such a Harem. Where do we keep all these extra women we steal while their husbands are at work?
Do tell me, I'm dying to know where I can find em. They're certainly not in my congregation, not in my neighborhood.
Wait, I think they all must have been “reconverted” and gone to live in Texas and the FLDS sects.
Thanks for the chuckle.
“the Mormon men get to have those extra women in their polygamous harems into eternity”
Funny. Everytime they have come to my house, they insisted on speaking to me. Hmmmmm.....
Want to see a good and honest portrayl of the start of the mormon church? What the South Park episode “all about mormons.”
You're not here to try to re-fight the Romney wars of a few months back, are you?
I'm suspicious. There's about 18 billion tons of stuff on Mormonism around.
Got a library? An internet connection? A credit card?
I imagine getting a copy would not be difficult.
I find your post to be potentially disingenuous. I’ve seen you on the past few Mormon related threads joining the regular Mormon carpet bombers in their insecurities. Hopefully you’re not feigning ignorance in Mormon belief hoping to prime the pump for more bashing. Hope I’m wrong.
Cliffs notes. Joseph Smith was a sex crazed (with a thing for young girls), convicted con man who translated gold plates by putting a rock in his hat and putting his face into the hat, thus being able to translate the plates.
This non mormon has no religious insecurities. But I have no problem pointing out the gigantic and gaping falsehoods of Joseph Smith and the mormon faith, and the outrights cons and lies perpetuated by Smith and the church.
Step 1: Acquire a copy of the Book of Mormon
Step 2: Start reading
Its your opinion that Mormonism has gigantic and gaping falsehoods. Expressing your opinion is what FR is all about. But for ChurtleDawg to come on and alledgedly pretend he has no idea what Mormonism is all about appears to be a strategic manuever to get some additional bashing in. This disingenuous tactic is typical of carpet bombers on Mormon threads.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
using words such as “appear” and “alledgedly” is not making it personal.
Unless you’re attempting to read my mind. If that’s the case maybe you should suspend yourself for 3 days. :-)
While I expect the Mormon bashing, I am really curious what the actual story in the book of Mormon is. From what I have heard, it sounds very bizarre, but no one explains who the Nephites and the Lamenites are.
Basically, I am trying to discern what actual Mormonism is.
On the other post, I would love to suspend myself for three days, I could use a break. LOL!
It is considered good FR form to ping me to a post which quotes what I say.
Especially when you label that post as stealthy, entrapment, etc.
On many things, yes, it is my opinion, along with that of many others.
On many other things though, it is concrete fact that what Joseph Smith and the mormon church teach is flat out false.
DNA and the Rosetta Stone to name two things that have proven Smith and the Mormon Church wrong on many a thing.
Recommendation: drink massive amounts of coffee and/or tea during Step 2; you'll need it to stay awake.
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