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“I Will Give unto Thee the Keys of the Kingdom” Matthew 15:21-17:9 (LDS-OPEN)
Meridian Magazine ^ | Craig K. Manscill

Posted on 09/15/2008 7:57:31 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

 

 

Lesson 13
“I Will Give unto Thee the Keys of the Kingdom”
Matthew 15:21-17:9

By Craig K. Manscill

Context of Matthew 16:13-19

The site of ancient Caesarea Philippi is in the northernmost part of Israel at the foot of Mount Hermon. The only Biblical references to the city are found in the New Testament in Matthew 16:13 and Mark 8:27, which describe Jesus’ visit to the vicinity of Caesarea Philippi with his disciples. This trip may have been for leadership training or proselyting or a combination of both.

In answer to the Savior’s question on the occasion, Peter bore his testimony on behalf of the rest of the apostles with the fervent declaration “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

The Master responded by explaining that such a testimony came only through revelation from God, and then declared that his Church was to be built “upon this rock” of the revelation. He promised Peter and the Apostles “the keys of the kingdom of heaven,” which would empower them to perform works that would be sealed in heaven as well as on earth. Just a week later these keys were bestowed to Peter and his associates on the Mount of Transfiguration. [1]

“Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God”

Peter’s declaration to the Son of God, that he was indeed the Christ gives us a window of opportunity to discuss Peter’s conversion and testimony. By the power of the Spirit we come to know the things of God — we gain a testimony. By that same power we continue the process of conversion.

In a sense, gaining a testimony is a form of conversion from unbelief to belief, from doubt to certitude. Peter’s announcement that Jesus is the Son of God, is one stone building upon another of his conversion and testimony.

The following is a discussion by Robert L. Millet on Peter’s conversion and subsequent testimony.

The importance of building upon one's testimony and thereafter becoming truly converted is illustrated dramatically in the life of Simon Peter. Peter was a humble man, a fisherman, when he was called by Jesus to the ministry. As a member of the meridian First Presidency, Peter was frequently alone with the Savior and privy to many of the spiritual experiences recorded in the New Testament (Matthew 14:28-29; 17:1-9; 26:37; Mark 5:35-43).

There is little doubt that Peter was a good man with sound desires, one who had a testimony of the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth. After Jesus preached his powerful bread of life sermon, in which he identified himself as the true bread of life and the living manna, many of the disciples were offended and "walked no more with him."

Christ turned to the Twelve in what was a poignant moment and asked: "Will ye also go away?" Peter responded in deep sincerity and conviction, speaking for the others of the Twelve: "Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God" (John 6:66-69).

At Caesarea Philippi some six months before the crucifixion, Jesus asked the Twelve: "Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" Again answering for the Twelve, Simon said: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matthew 16:13, 19).

Although the New Testament attests that Peter had a testimony, it also affirms that he slipped and stumbled. Not infrequently, he was chastened by his Master for his shortsightedness and impulsiveness.

Almost immediately after his remarkable testimony at Caesarea Philippi, Jesus began to prepare his chosen Twelve for what lay ahead — his arrest, passion, and death. "Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But [Jesus] turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me; for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men" (Matthew 16:21-23). Here we see that the rock, or seer stone (JST, John 1:42), had become a stumbling block. And, of course, there was the most classic of Peter's blunders — his open denial of a knowledge of Jesus on the night the Savior was arrested (Matthew 26:69-74).

How could someone who had a testimony fall short so often? How could someone who knew as Peter knew slip as often as Peter did, even to the point of an outright denial? The answer to such questions seems to lie in a conversation between Jesus and Peter at the Last Supper. Jesus said, "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren" (Luke 22:31-32).

Because the full power and gifts of the Holy Ghost were not given until the day of Pentecost, though Peter had a testimony, he was not yet fully converted. After the resurrection of the Lord and after Pentecost and the accompanying baptism by fire, Peter and the Twelve walked in a new light. We need only to read the opening chapters of the Acts of the Apostles to witness a transformation in the man Peter. He is bold and certain and solid in his ministry — the permanent and indelible impression was planted, and the Holy Ghost had made Peter into a new creature, a new creature alive in Christ.

As Peter and John walked through the Gate Beautiful on the way to the temple (Acts 3), they passed a lame man who begged alms daily. President Harold B. Lee described the touching scene:

"Here was one who had never walked, impotent from his birth, begging alms of all who approached the gate. And as Peter and John approached, he held out his hand expectantly, asking for alms. Peter, speaking for this pair of missionaries — church authorities — said, 'Look on us.' And, of course, that heightened his expectation. 'Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.'"

President Lee continued: "Will you see that picture now of that noble soul, that chiefest of the apostles, perhaps with his arms around the shoulders of this man, and saying, 'Now, my good man, have courage, I will take a few steps with you. Let's walk together, and I assure you that you can walk, because you have received a blessing by the power and authority that God has given us as men, his servants.' Then the man leaped with joy."

Through the cultivation of the gift of the Holy Ghost, Peter was born again, converted, turned wholly to Christ and to His righteousness. Peter could now strengthen his brothers and sisters. "You cannot lift another soul," President Lee added, "until you are standing on higher ground than he is. You must be sure, if you would rescue the man, that you yourself are setting the example of what you would have him be. You cannot light a fire in another soul unless it is burning in your own soul" (in Conference Report, Apr. 1973, 178).

Truly, a person is converted "when he sees with his eyes what he ought to see; when he hears with his ears what he ought to hear; and when he understands with his heart what he ought to understand accompanied by the gift of the Holy Ghost. And what he ought to see, hear, and understand is truth — eternal truth — and then practice it. That is conversion.[2]

“Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God”

What does the average person mean when he testifies that Jesus is the Christ? Of course, it is the witness of the Spirit that counts. But what do the words Jesus and Christ mean? A brief excursion into the meaning of these two words may be useful.

Elder G. Homer Durham of the Seventy gives valuable information as to the meaning of the words Jesus and Christ.

The Oxford English Dictionary on Historical Principles (Oxford: The Clarendon Press, 1933), tells us that the word Jesus came into the English language from Middle English, adapted from the Latin Iesus, which in turn was adapted from the Greek Iesous. This in turn was adapted from the Hebrew or Aramaic word Yeshua or Yehoshua. The earlier root was Joshua. This dictionary goes on to explain that the word Joshua derived from the Jah of Jahveh, meaning that “Jehovah is salvation.” Thus, the word “Jesus” has parallel meaning with Savior. Dr. David Flusser of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem puts it simply: “Jesus is the common Greek form of the Hebrew name Joshua.” (Encyclopedia Judaica, Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, Ltd., 1971, 10:10.)

Webster’s New 20th Century Dictionary of the English Language (Cleveland: World Publishing Co., 1968), unabridged, sets forth a comparable definition, noting that the Latin-Greek derivation from the Hebrew Joshua means literally, “help of Jehovah.” But in addition, this source states that the word derives from the Hebrew word for Lord God, he who is available to help, to save. In this sense, then, the word Jesus means simply, “God is help.” How “Save the Humans,” as the bumper sticker read? The dictionaries and the gospel give the answer.

What of the word Christ? It also comes to the English-speaking world from Middle English, derived from the Latin Christus, in turn from the Greek Christos, which meant “the Anointed” — a noun made from the past participle of the Greek verb “to anoint.”
Webster also states that the word Christ was originally Jesus’ title. Thus, proper usage of the two words in English would be as Elder James E. Talmage titled his book, Jesus the Christ. Usage and revelation have joined the two as part of a sacred, revered name.

Elder Talmage defined the two words as follows:

Jesus is the individual name of the Savior, and as thus spelled is of Greek derivation … In the original the name was well understood as meaning ‘Help of Jehovah,’ or,
‘Savior.’ ”

Elder Talmage emphasized that the word Christ is a sacred title, not “an ordinary … common name; it is of Greek derivation, and … is identical with its Hebrew equivalent Messiah … signifying the Anointed One.” (Jesus the Christ, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1973, pp. 35-36.) [3]

“Upon this rock I will build my church ... and I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven ...”

Matthew's is the only Gospel in the New Testament to use the term church (Greek ekklesi) in referring to the organized community of believers. The key reference occurs in the account of Jesus' discussion with his disciples at Caesarea Philippi. When Peter testifies of Christ's divine Sonship, the Master replies that this knowledge is of divine origin and then goes on to speak of the Church and its leadership.

The keys or right of presidency by which the Church of Jesus Christ was to be established, the means by which ordinances were to be performed, and the authorization to make converts and seal them into a family order were all received by the chief Apostles from Jesus and heavenly ministrants. It appears that on the Mount of Transfiguration Moses and Elijah restored the keys of the gathering of Israel, as well as the sacred sealing power (Matt. 17:1-8; compare D&C 110). There seemed to be no doubt Jesus had come to earth to do more than articulate ethical principles or even to reveal strong doctrine; the Master came as a legal administrator and reestablished the kingdom of God--the Church of Jesus Christ [4]


[1] D. Kelly Ogden and Jeffery R. Chadwick, The Holy Land: A Geographical, Historical and Archaeological Guide to the Land Of The Bible, 1990 Notes, HaMakor, Jerusalem, Israel

[2] Robert L. Millet, Alive in Christ: The Miracle of Spiritual Rebirth [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1997], 96.

[3] G. Homer Durham, “Jesus the Christ: the Words and Their Meaning,” Ensign, May 1984, p. 14

[4] Joseph Smith and the Gospel of Matthew by Robert L. Millet, BYU Studies, vol. 25 1985, Number 3-Summer 1985 p. 70)

 

Keys of the Kingdom
By John Tvedtnes

[Supplement to Gospel Doctrine New Testament lesson 13]

During his mortal ministry, Jesus promised the apostle Peter, “I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matthew 16:19; note the singular forms thee and thou).

A few days later, Jesus took his three leading apostles, Peter, James, and John, with him to a mountaintop, where Moses and Elijah (New Testament Greek form Elias) appeared to them (Matthew 17:1-8; Mark 9:2-8; Luke 9:28-36). Of this event, Joseph Smith declared:

The Savior, Moses, and Elias, gave the keys to Peter, James, and John, on the mount when they were transfigured before him” (History of the Church 3:387). The rest of the apostles subsequently received these keys, for Jesus, addressing all of them (note the plural ye), said, “Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven (Matthew 18:18).

In an early revelation, Joseph Smith learned that Christ told Peter that he, James, and John would hold the keys: “And I will make thee to minister for him and for thy brother James; and unto you three I will give this power and the keys of this ministry until I come” (D&C 7:7). Joseph Smith and subsequent leaders of the restored Church have taught that all of the apostles hold keys, but that the senior apostle is the one who presides and thus exercises all the keys.

The fourth-century A.D. Syrian Christian writer Ephraim had the same view as Joseph Smith regarding these keys. He wrote that “although the twelve had keys they had nevertheless been given to Simon [Peter], because he was indeed the head; upon his preaching [Jesus] said He would build his Church” (Commentary on Genesis 6).

Jerome (died A.D. 420) expressed a similar view:

But you say, the Church was founded upon Peter: although elsewhere the same is attributed to all the Apostles, and they all receive the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and the strength of the Church depends upon them all alike, yet one among the twelve is chosen so that when a head has been appointed, there may be no occasion for schism. But why was not John chosen, who was a virgin? Deference was paid to age, because Peter was the elder: one who was a youth, I may say almost a boy, could not be set over men of advanced age (Against Jovinianus 1.26).

Latter-day Saints typically think of priesthood keys in terms of presiding authority and sealing of families, including work for the dead. Indeed, Joseph Smith cited Matthew 16:18-19 in reference to baptism for the dead and the sealing of children to their parents, whether dead or alive (D&C 128:10-11, 14, 18). His explanation is best understood by returning to Christ’s words to Peter, in which he said of the Church that “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it,” then immediately added, “I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 16:18-19).

Keys versus Gates

Some critics of the restored Church have argued that this passage means that there could not have been an apostasy, since Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. Such an interpretation, however, assumes that gates are wont to attack institutions such as a church.

In reality, gates are intended to keep people in (as in a prison) or to keep others out (as in a walled city under siege by the enemy). The gates of hell (Greek hades, the realm of the dead) are intended to keep people in. But the keys of the kingdom can open the gates of hell, allowing the Church to enter and the message of salvation to be declared among the dead. Joseph Smith taught that “there is a way to release the spirits of the dead; that is by the power and authority of the Priesthood — by binding not loosing on earth” (History of the Church 4:425).

This explains why the risen Christ told the apostle John, “I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death” (Revelation 1:18). Christ also described himself as “he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” (Revelation 3:7), citing a prophecy of Isaiah, “And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open” (Isaiah 22:22). The concept of shutting and opening is the same as that of sealing and loosing.

It is Christ who eternally holds the keys, though he allows angels, prophets, and apostles to use them. Thus, though he holds the keys of death and hell, the apostle John saw in vision an angel possessing the key of the bottomless pit in which Satan will be imprisoned during the millennium (Revelation 9:1; 20:1-3).

Ephraim of Syria described Christ’s eternal possession of the keys as well as the confirmation of these keys at the hand of the man Simeon, who blessed the infant Jesus in the Jerusalem temple (Luke 2:25-35): “the keys of priesthood and prophecy to Him who has authority over the treasurer of them both ... the keys which He had received from Simeon the priest, them He gave to another Simeon the Apostle,”who came to be called Peter [Matthew 16:15-19]” (Hymns for the Feast of the Epiphany, Three Homilies on Our Lord 1:51-52).

Ephraim also wrote:

Because John [the Baptist] also was the treasurer of baptism, the Lord of the stewardship came to him to receive from him the keys of the house of reconciliation ... Accordingly, even us our Lord when He was baptized, was clothed in baptism and carried baptism with Him, so also when He was presented in the Temple, He put on prophecy and priesthood, and went forth bearing the purity of the priesthood upon His pure members, and bearing the words of prophecy in His wondrous ears.

For when Simeon was sanctifying the body of the Child who sanctifies all, that body received the priesthood its sanctification. And again, when Simeon was prophesying over Him, prophecy quickly entered the hearing of the Child ... Accordingly, each one of the gifts that was stored up for the Son, He gathered from their true tree. For He received baptism from the Jordan ... He received priesthood from the Temple ... He received prophecy which had been handed down amongst the righteous ... and He received the kingdom from the house of David” (Homily on Our Lord 53-54).


Note the sequence of events in chapters 16-19 of Matthew: Christ promised keys to Peter (chapter 19); Peter, James, and John received keys from Jesus, Moses, and Elijah (chapter 17); Jesus confirmed that all the apostles held the sealing keys (chapter 18).


This is true regardless of whether there is a First Presidency or the Twelve Apostles constitute the presidency of the Church.

Edward G. Matthews, Jr., The Armenian Commentary on Genesis Attributed to Ephrem the Syrian, Corpus Scriptorum Christianorum Orientalium vol. 573, Scriptores Armeniaci vol. 24. (Louvain, Belgium: Peeters, 1998), 98.

Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, eds., Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series (reprint, Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1994), 6:366. When the quorum of the twelve apostles was re-established in February 1835, the eldest member served as president. As others were called to fill vacancies in the quorum, it was the one who had been ordained earliest who presided.

The Hebrew name rendered Simeon in the Old Testament is the same as the one rendered Simon in the New Testament.

Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, eds., Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series, 13:328-9. For a lengthier quote of the passage and a discussion thereof, see John A. Tvedtnes, “Jesus’ Priesthood,” posted on the Meridian web site at http://www.meridianmagazine.com/gospeldoctrine/nt/070112nt3sf.html

Ibid., 13:329.

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/gospeldoctrine/nt/070321nt13sfprint.html



TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: lds; mormon; theology
Further claims: "That the foretold restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood and ordination to the apostleship was subsequently accomplished is amply attested in the scriptures. In August 1830, the Lord unmistakably confirmed this fact when he spoke to Joseph of "Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them" (D&C 27:12).

Still earlier in the year, when the Church was organized on 6 April 1830, reference was made to commandments which "were given to Joseph Smith, Jun., who was called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the first elder of this church; and Oliver Cowdery, who was also called of God, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the second elder of this church, . . . and ordained under his hand" (D&C 20:2,3). (D&C=Doctrine and Covenants of LDS church)

Link

1 posted on 09/15/2008 7:57:31 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: colorcountry; Pan_Yans Wife; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; Osage Orange; svcw; Enosh; ...

Ping


2 posted on 09/15/2008 8:01:07 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 ("I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve. ( DBM)
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To: greyfoxx39
As a member of the meridian First Presidency, Peter was frequently alone with the Savior and privy to many of the spiritual experiences recorded in the New Testament

Huh???......????.....

(Oh nevermind, I know what this means, I just wanted to point it out to the rest of the great unwashed.)

3 posted on 09/15/2008 8:07:43 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: colorcountry
As a member of the meridian First Presidency, Peter was frequently alone with the Savior and privy to many of the spiritual experiences recorded in the New Testament
Huh???......????.....

"Christian"..."Born Again"....."First Presidency".....WOW! "It depends on what 'is' IS!"

Makes one wonder what Bible this comes from, doesn't it?

4 posted on 09/15/2008 8:22:25 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 ("I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve. ( DBM)
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To: greyfoxx39

Thanks for the ping!


5 posted on 09/15/2008 8:22:34 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: greyfoxx39

Galations 1:8 : “But even if an angel from Heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!”

Since the LDS teach another Gospel, the Bible condemns them.........


6 posted on 09/15/2008 8:27:25 AM PDT by Ecliptic
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To: greyfoxx39
Comment on this: "The gates of hell (Greek hades, the realm of the dead) are intended to keep people in. But the keys of the kingdom can open the gates of hell, allowing the Church to enter and the message of salvation to be declared among the dead. Joseph Smith taught that “there is a way to release the spirits of the dead; that is by the power and authority of the Priesthood — by binding not loosing on earth” (History of the Church 4:425)."

The keys of the kingdom which Christ gave to the Apostles were the keys to bring forgiveness to those who were spiritually dead. There is no key that rescues the unrepentant from the pits of darkness, reserved for judgment. They got their chance here on earth.

"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained" (John 20:23). In church discipline, where one brother approaches another who is living in sin, the sins are loosed or bound depending on whether the man repents or not.

The idea of saving those who have already physically died is foreign to Scripture. But the error is perpetuated by confusing the Scriptures use of being physically dead with being spiritually dead. "Baptism for the dead" would not be effective unless the dead person was fully consenting by submitting to the command. Jesus did not go into hell to preach the Gospel to our unsaved friends. Instead he preached to them and to us through His Apostles and Prophets. He preached through Noah who preached to the pre-flood world. He preached to Gentiles through Paul. These people preached to those who were physically alive and spiritually dead.

The only priesthood that exist today is the priesthood of believers, with Christ as the only High Priest.

7 posted on 09/15/2008 8:54:23 AM PDT by discipler (Symbolically GREEN to do our part to save the planet.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Could you synthesize into a few sentences what is the point? Is it something to do with the legitimacy the LDS priesthood?

Also, the thing about Peter’s conversion. So he offers a laudable confession which is equal to a conversion, but then it isn’t really the fully conversion, evidenced by his challenging Christ, and so the full conversion happened on Pentecost? Degrees of conversion? I believe in conversion to Christ, but I don’t really get the argument.


8 posted on 09/15/2008 9:12:57 AM PDT by discipler (Symbolically GREEN to do our part to save the planet.)
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To: discipler
Re your posts 7 and 8:

There is a ongoing drive by the Public Relations department of the LDS church to mold Christian beliefs to fit mormon doctrine and claim the title of "Christian" for itself.

There are ongoing claims in various threads posted here, see these threads posted under LDS Devotional taken from LDS scriptures, that appear to me to demand rebuttal.

I have been inspired by posts on different threads, to follow up various themes and post FROM LDS SOURCES, articles outlining certain key points of mormon doctrine for perusal by interested FReepers so that they can see the differences in the information given out by various sources.

You will see two seperate articles regarding the LDS Priesthood doctrine.

The conversion of Peter is something I haven't delved into yet. My aim is to provide the actual doctrine taught presently to LDS members, to be considered when reading the information provided by the LDS church in the continuing effort to paint the LDS church as Christian.

If you haven't seen the threads I have posted, here is a list:

Beware the Bitter Fruits of Apostasy (LDS) (OPEN)

Gospel Teachings About Lying-LDS (OPEN)

COMMON CONSENT (As Practiced in the LDS Church) (OPEN)

The Mormon Doctrine of Materiality

The Restoration of the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods Part 1(LDS) OPEN

The Restoration of the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods Part 2(LDS) OPEN

Your Patriarchal Blessing (LDS - OPEN THREAD)

Baptism for the Dead in Ancient Ukraine (LDS - OPEN)

Life On Gold Plates - (LDS) Open

ANGELS:The Encyclopedia of Mormonism. (LDS) OPEN

“Ye Shall Be Called the Children of Christ” (LDS - OPEN)

HAVE YOU BEEN BORN AGAIN? LDS-OPEN

“I Will Give unto Thee the Keys of the Kingdom” Matthew 15:21-17:9 (LDS-OPEN)

There have been concerted efforts on FR to censor LDS information, and some of my threads have been pulled as a result.

9 posted on 09/15/2008 10:16:32 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 ("I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve. ( DBM)
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To: Ecliptic
Since the LDS teach another Gospel, the Bible condemns them.........
 
That part of the 'bible' is probably not tranlated correctly.


KJV
 Galatians 1:6-9
 6.  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 
 
 
 
ANYBODY???
 
Like this fine looking fellow???
 
 
 
 
 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
 13.  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
 14.  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
 15.  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
 

Like THESE guys??
 
 
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
 
 


 
Ephesians 2:1-2 
1.  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
 


 
1 Corinthians 4:17
  For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
   Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
 
2 Timothy 1:13
   Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
 
2 Timothy 3:14-15
 14.  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
 15.  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

10 posted on 09/15/2008 3:53:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: discipler
So he offers a laudable confession which is equal to a conversion, but then it isn’t really the fully conversion, evidenced by his challenging Christ, and so the full conversion happened on Pentecost?

Huh?

Is that like being partially pregnant?

11 posted on 09/15/2008 3:55:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
There have been concerted efforts on FR to censor LDS information, and some of my threads have been pulled as a result.

That is because you are a hateful bigot.

WE know what your motives are, Buster!!

--MormonDude(Don't think for ONE minute we ain't on to you!)

12 posted on 09/15/2008 3:57:08 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

SHHhhhhhh...don’t tell anyone. ;)


13 posted on 09/15/2008 4:03:45 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 ("I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve. ( DBM)
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To: Elsie

hi Elsie, I suppose it would be if it were possible. It’s not possible to be partially pregs. and its not possible to be partially converted. My point exactly since the LDS information provided suggested the confession of Peter in Mt 16 equaled conversion. But then it went on to say, it wasn’t a full conversion as evidenced by his challenge to Christ (”get behind me Satan”). But then the full conversion occurred in acts 2. Its not this difficult. The truth is simple. Peter believed but he made a mistake. It is ridiculous to think we can challenge peoples conversion oh the basis of misspeaking.


14 posted on 09/16/2008 11:06:43 AM PDT by discipler (Symbolically GREEN to do our part to save the planet.)
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To: discipler; Elsie; greyfoxx39

Simplistic honesty: “The truth is simple.”

No argument there, Discipler. It (Truth) is as it was written - the first time.

Best Regards,

BR


15 posted on 09/16/2008 6:53:10 PM PDT by Birmingham Rain
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To: Elsie

So, YOU believe the Bible was mistranslated? On what authority can YOU depend to say the Bible is wrong?

What does the book of mormon say about the Bible? Does it say the Bible is in error? Are you now saying the book of mormon is wrong about the Bible?


16 posted on 09/16/2008 7:10:32 PM PDT by Ecliptic
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To: Ecliptic
 
So, YOU believe the Bible was mistranslated?
On what authority can YOU depend to say the Bible is wrong?
 
 
Good questions to put to followers of Joseph Smith about #8...
 


 

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

 

 
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541
 
 

  1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
  3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
  4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
  5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
  6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
  7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
  8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
  9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
  10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
  11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

17 posted on 09/17/2008 4:35:16 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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