Posted on 12/16/2008 9:33:18 AM PST by TaraP
The Scriptures speak more than once, that no-one knows when Jesus will return only the Father. Mark 13:32 No one knows when that day or hour will come-not the angels in heaven, not the Son, but only the Father.
Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone
ACTS 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;
I know many Christians all over the world are trying to pin down a date when Jesus might return, especially in these perilous times we all are living in....
My question is: Do we as believers have the power to bring fourth Jesus Christ by praying for his return consistently?
Or is GOD waiting on the Jewish people to call on him? Blessed Is He Who Comes In The Name of the Lord Matthew 21:1-11 Zechariah’s prophesy of hope extends from chapter 9 through 14. In chapter 9, verses 9-10, Zechariah speaks of the Zion’s King coming to his people –
Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
The disciples went and did as Jesus had instructed them. They brought the donkey and the colt, placed their cloaks on them, and Jesus sat on them. A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, while others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road.
The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted, “Hosanna[b] to the Son of David!” “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!”[c] “Hosanna[d] in the highest!”
Do you think the Father is waiting on us? rather than us waiting on him to return to earth?
This is an excellent book if you already accept the futurist agenda hook, line, and sinker. It makes current events come alive because it is written from the perspective of … well, current events.
Serious Bible students be warned. Lots more of the same old same old, just with a new cover.
Under the heading of “Where are we now?” they write, “What is now more clear than ever is that we have taken a quantum leap toward the fulfillment of the biblical prophecy of the last days. The stage is now being set for the final climatic act in the long history of the human drama. Things could not have been arranged more perfectly for the fulfillment of the prophecies of the end times” (p. 56)
“More clear than ever?” No wonder Chuck Smith, Hal Lindsey and Edgar Whisenant got it all wrong in the 1970s. Current events were not clear enough. Oh, sure. They had the Soviets Union to work with. What an ominous boogeyman?! But the Soviets are gone bye-bye. Then there was the Chinese with their phantom army of 200 million on horseback waiting to cross the Euphrates. Oops, turns out there are no enough horses in the entire world to field such an army.
The eschatological futurist boogeymen of the 1970s have been replaced with the eschatological boogeymen of this decade. No doubt they will change again in 10 or 20 years.
Perhaps LaHaye and Hinson have fixed all those mistakes.
It appears you can only get to 1948 by masterful feats of mathematical and chronological sleight-of-hand.
Seen it. It struck me as, they knew where they wanted to get, and tweaked the assumptions until they got it.
(A year change would muck everything up. Chuck Missler thinks the length of year changed, somewhere in the low 700s BC, when Mars did a close passby of Earth (~70000 miles). I kid you not. It was on one of his podcasts in the last month.)
Where is your scriptual evidence to your statements?
Jesus is coming back to set his Millenial Kingdom up in Israel. he spoke of the Jews and Diaspora....
THe Anti-Christ will sign a 7 yr Peace treaty with Israel.
This could not happen before 1948 so it is Biblical Scripture.
When God kindly, sovereignly, and graciously discredited Soviet communism, I saw no signs of gratitude from those embittered die-hard failures, the futurists. Instead, they frantically began searching heaven and earth to find other boogeymen to cower/grovel before.
This ingratitude, this contempt for God's mercies, has pretty well discredited the fortune-tellers.
At this point in history, the Gospel has several major-league opponents. The ones we have to deal with are secular humanism, and Islam. The vast majority of Christians are already compromised, and "in bed with" secular humanism. Which might explain why there's more of a market for excuses than there is for solutions. After all, if God Himself has already ordained that the future belongs to antichrist, why not send our kids to antichristian schools, in order to prepare them for antichrist's world? The people of faith and hope, however, do not support public education. They undermine secular humanism by starving it of the one resource it craves above all others, the hearts, minds, souls, and bodies of our children.
Question: Suppose God dealt with Islam as swiftly and decisively as He dealt with Soviet communism. Would we be ready for that opportunity? In 1945, Douglas MacArthur begged America to send 10,000 missionaries to Japan. What he got was engineers. The opportunity was squandered, and today Japan is one of the most secular nations on earth. We did a little better when the Soviet bloc fell. Our missionaries hit the streets of Kiev at about the same time as the pornographers.
Let me make a prediction. Unlike our friends the doomsayers, cowardly spies, and fortune tellers, I am NOT willing to write off a billion of our fellow creatures. I AM praying for the fall of Islam. And taking steps to organize my life, studies, and actions in term of those hopes.
....When Islam falls, many Christians of faith and courage (i.e. -- post-millenial) will be ready, with a grasp on the Christian world view, and on the language and culture of a Muslim society. The doomsayers will miss the door of opportunity, and start trying to cobble together another boogeyman to cower/grovel before. Fortunately for the gospel, the cause of Christ, the glory of God, and the blessings of humanity, there will probably be a lot fewer of these disgraceful ingrates.
Amen, RJR_fan!
What specifically would you like to know?
Jesus is coming back to set his Millenial Kingdom up in Israel. he spoke of the Jews and Diaspora....
Jesus is presently reigning in His Kingdom bringing all things into submission, and we are reigning with Him. We are in the thousand years of Rev. 20.
26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. (Matt. 12)Satan’s house is being plundered because the “strong man” (Satan) has been bound. The nations are coming under the dominion of the King of kings.To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. (Rev. 1:5,6)
" All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." (Matt. 28)His present reign is also over God’s holy nation:25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. (1 Cor. 15)
5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. … 9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 2)THe Anti-Christ will sign a 7 yr Peace treaty with Israel.
Nothing in the Bible to support that notion. The idea is based on a misreading of Daniel 9 and an invention of futurists called the gap theory. I would like to see you exegete any passage in the Bible to prove this imaginary peace treaty.
This could not happen before 1948 so it is Biblical Scripture.
Again, that is another futurist assumption that is not actually taught in the Bible. 1948 has no prophetic significance. Nada, zero, zippo.
Since we have overcome death by the Blood of the Lamb, haven’t we (Believers) already achieved *Victory*?
Premillenialists believe that the ratio of wheat to tares will progressively change in the tare's favor. The Great Commission is fulfilled in history only in the sense of being preached to all nations (but positive returns on preaching, i.e. conversions, will steadily and progressively decline, as will the prospects for raising up Godly progeny). The gates of Hell will progressively prevail against His church, leading to a Great Tribulation and Armageddon where the AntiChrist holds sway and influence over every soul on the planet, and Christ's enemies progressively wield influence, achieving a decisive victory by the apex of history. They are unable to be defeated until Christ returns physically to kick their collective keisters. Pretrib/Premillers tell us that "Jesus already has the victory", but only a victory that fails to manifest itself within history, contrary to Psalm 110, Matthew 13, Matthew 18, Matthew 28, etc etc etc).
While Christ personally may "have the victory", Christ's church will eventually lose all impact and influence as history progresses. It should then come as no surprise that the church ultimately disappears entirely (the rapture), having used up whatever opportunities it was given, and having "left behind" nothing of lasting value in return.
I have to wonder whether the premillers are expecting greater things of the wheat, or the tares?
Some related threads:
Publishing Armageddon
Snatching Up End-Time Books
Left behind? Not this book series
He certainly must have a sense of humor, allowing these dispensationalists to rewrite their speculative pulp fiction every time world events change. And He manages to keep changing things up.
Maybe this is His way of sifting the believers. The clueless ones keep rewriting their books, while the thinking ones finally give up on dispensationalism for covenant theology.
GOD’s heavenly Kingdom will rein on earth....
That is what is meant: Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done in heaven and on earth.
The Millenial Kingdom will come down on earth with all the saints.....
Since the earth will de destroyed by fire, (melted) the New Earth will emerge.
It is my understanding we as (Believers will live among the Lord in the New Jerusalem) the un-saved will still be on the earth, and will not be allowed into the gates. (Kingdom) When the wicked is finally destroyed they will be cast down to hell (Below the earth...)
Many of these issues can be addressed by this site.
www.geocentricity.com
The Lesser Light-Genesis 1:16
Nam Vet
Maybe this is His way of sifting the believers. The clueless ones keep rewriting their books, while the thinking ones finally give up on dispensationalism for covenant theology.
Actually, I suspect the guy who recycles his books and marriages as each is overtaken by time has a clue; he just doesn't care. Same plots, new faces. Currently on wife #4, and I don't know how many times he's recycled his "late, great" book. Yet the people at WorldNet Daily, and, sadly, too many people here, still consider him to be a reputable scholar. They somehow expect him to be more faithful to God, and to his readers, than he's been to his marriages.
What issues? Can you articulate them?
Let’s parse this. First of all, kingdoms do not reign. Kings reign, and Christ the King is presently reigning. He is presently reigning over the earth and His subjects (the quick) are on the earth, putting all things in subjection (1 Cor. 15).
That is what is meant: Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done in heaven and on earth.
And that is what has been happening for 2000 years. No delay there.
The Millenial Kingdom will come down on earth with all the saints.....
Do you mean the new Jerusalem? That is what we see coming down from heaven to earth in Rev. 21. The Bible does not speak of a “millennial kingdom”. It does not speak of any spiritual kingdom other than the kingdom of heaven/God (two terms for the same kingdom).
We are presently in the kingdom of heaven/God. Nothing delayed since Christ is on His throne reigning over the nations.
From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.
"My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."
He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
Since the earth will de destroyed by fire, (melted) the New Earth will emerge.
2 Peter 3 speaks of the heavens and earth being consumed. From that emerges the new heavens and new earth. This happens when Christ comes as a thief in the night, not one thousands years later. "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. " No separate millennium possible.
It is my understanding we as (Believers will live among the Lord in the New Jerusalem) the un-saved will still be on the earth, and will not be allowed into the gates. (Kingdom) When the wicked is finally destroyed they will be cast down to hell (Below the earth...)
The Bible teaches that at Christ’s return, the nations are judged with the righteous going with Christ into the everlasting kingdom (that He has delivered up to the Father) and the unrighteous going into the Lake of Fire with Satan and his minions. The new Jerusalem in the new heavens and new earth, the consummate kingdom, then occupies all of God’s creation.
I visited the site. Interesting to read about the crystalline spheres surrounding the stationary, non-rotating Earth.
I looked into geocentrism about 15 or 20 years ago and concluded there was nothing worth considering further. See articles by Gary North and James Jordan.
When Jesus decides it time and not a millisecond before
Topcate,
You quote scripture, that definetly is part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ..however, IMHO respectful opinion you are a Cherry Picker of the Scriptures...
First Jesus said when he left, ascended back to heaven. He told his apostles that he was going to *prepare* a place for them..
*In my house is many mansions I go to prepare a place for you*
Yes the Kingdom of GOD is within us..He left us his Peace.
However he planned on our dwelling to be a place GOD intended for us to live, from the get-go..The Garden of Eden.
The Firmament...Expanding Universe...That is one thing I did agree from the geocentricity site.
Can you imagine how many people have graced this planet from when it started? How many people are coming back? would there be enough room on this planet the way it is?
I would think not...
One more thing Topcate... What signs did Jesus want us to be aware of when he spoke in Matthew 24? Look up for our redemption draws nigh...
And what do you think GOD said..or meant when he said he would send a *Delusion* to people?
I would be happy to comment on any Scripture you think I'm ignoring.
*In my house is many mansions I go to prepare a place for you*
Absolutely true. I believe this is a reference to the new Jerusalem. Which we all occupy (Heb. 12:22) and will occupy to a greater degree in glory when our souls and bodies are reunited at the resurrection.
Yes the Kingdom of GOD is within us..He left us his Peace.
Also true. I don’t see any conflict.
The Firmament...Expanding Universe...That is one thing I did agree from the geocentricity site.
I don’t find the speculative theories in the geocentrism model to fit with Scripture. Trying to read the Bible as one would a science textbook is just as error prone as trying to read Bible prophecies as one would the Jerusalem Times. It fails to adequately account for the culture, language and setting for the text.
Can you imagine how many people have graced this planet from when it started? How many people are coming back? would there be enough room on this planet the way it is?
That is why it is called a new heavens and new earth. It has nothing to do with geocentrism. One more thing Topcate... What signs did Jesus want us to be aware of when he spoke in Matthew 24? Look up for our redemption draws nigh...
Matthew 24 combines two events, the impending siege of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple in AD70 and the Second Coming. The dividing line in the chapter comes in vv. 34-36.
34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 " But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father onlyIf you read carefully you will see that Jesus is very specific about timing and events in the first half of the chapter. That was to warn the disciples to flee from Jerusalem when they events He told them about started to unfold. BTW, in that section of localized judgment, He makes a statement of contrast with the Second Coming, "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." The disciples did not need to be concerned that this AD70 event was the Second Coming because that event would be seen by all and impossible to miss (e.g., no secret rapture).
In v. 36 Jesus moves His attention to the Second Coming. "But of that day and hour no one knows …" He likens it to the days of Noah when things were going on pretty much normally until the very day Noah and his family entered the ark. The Second Coming would be sudden and the timing unknown. "Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."
Bottom line, don’t confuse the signs in Matthew 24 related to the events of AD70 with the Second Coming when there will be no signs.
And what do you think GOD said..or meant when he said he would send a *Delusion* to people?
Well, let’s look at the context:
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2)Matthew Henry explains it this way:
Thus he will punish men for their unbelief, and for their dislike of the truth and love to sin and wickedness; not that God is the author of sin, but in righteousness he sometimes withdraws his grace from such sinners as are here mentioned; he gives them over to Satan, or leaves them to be deluded by his instruments; he gives them up to their own hearts’ lusts, and leaves them to themselves, and then sin will follow of course, yea, the worst of wickedness, that shall end at last in eternal damnation. God is just when he inflicts spiritual judgments here, and eternal punishments hereafter, upon those who have no love to the truths of the gospel, who will not believe them, nor live suitably to them, but indulge false doctrines in their minds, and wicked practices in their lives and conversations.
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