Skip to comments.If You Are Contracepting, You Are Part of A Very Big Problem
Posted on 01/27/2009 11:06:53 AM PST by NYer
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Not quite sure I get where you’re going. It’s hard to read the family tree, but it looks like Clevon had eleven kids by four wives and Clevon Junior has four kids by four wives. I take it Clevon hasn’t found a job yet. Is that Clevon Junior next to him or the doctor that delivered some of the kids?
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Absolutely! This happened to someone I know. They (docs) sold it as palliative care, but that was not true. It was euthanasia. Scary! V’s wife.
Sorry to hear it ventana. They use fancy names - another one is Compassionate Care. Kinda like the commies who became marxists, progressives etc. They’re slick. The name of the Eugenics Society has also changed over the years. We need to watch these murderers very closely and share our experiences with the public.
Beg to differ. I’m simply trying to avoid debt and make responsible choices.
It's accurate, whether you like it or not.
more like, "Voluntarily sterilize themselves so they can more easily behave like sexual animals."
Pointlessly hyperbolic rhetoric doesn't help you make your point.
An unmarried woman who wants to have sex with her boyfriend without the fear of getting pregnant isn't acting like some "sexual animal." She's making a rational life choice to put off child-bearing until she is ready. If your assumption is that everyone who uses contraception is promiscuous, you are incorrect.
You haven't paid into social security? Well, I sure have. A huge chunk is taken out of every paycheck I've received since I started working.
Whenever these issues are discussed, I’m a bit dismayed by the apparent class envy simmering just below the surface. Your comment about beemers and college tuition trumping having children seems an example of that.
We freepers like folks with money when they are viewed through the job creation lens. But when we look at their private lives, with things being more important than kids, we turn on those very same people.
My profile: 3 kids, more house than I need, but not more than I can afford. Strong desire for each of the kids to leave college debt free (2 down 1 to go). Could I have afforded more kids? Sure. But I am not ashamed at all to say that I like having a couple of extra nickles to rub together, and that having more kids would have had an impact on my ability to rub those nickels together.
And that is wrong why, exactly?
And a society that promotes immoral behavior as 'a rational choice' will also come to a bad end.
You're assuming what you still have to prove- namely, that contraceptive use is immoral.
“Beg to differ. Im simply trying to avoid debt and make responsible choices”
I was not referring to you personally but to your so called upper class
At the moment, I’m unemployed and part of the underclass.
“Whenever these issues are discussed, Im a bit dismayed by the apparent class envy simmering just below the surface. Your comment about beemers and college tuition trumping having children seems an example of that.”
Let me explain
Niuhuru said “I find that interesting considering the underclass is breeding like rabbits.”
This is a snotty comment...as if the so called ‘underclass’ has no right to reproduce.
It’s not the problem with one class overproducing; they are doing the right thing. The upperclass is not producing enough.
I don’t care how much money people have. I’m a capitalist.
Whatever the reason, we’re not having enough babies. Your particular situation is not the point. It’s the demographics of our nation that is going down the drain.
You followed your upperclass breeding comment with your own snotty comment about beemers and tuition payments. As if the upperclass has no right to spend their money on beemers and tuition payments.
You may not care how much money people have, but you do seem mighty concerned with how they spend it, if they are not spending it on stuff you deem important.
Do you think they'd have passed such hare-brained laws if most USA families were large and, well, voted large? I don't.
I am tired of the "cost of living is too expensive for kids" argument. I will admit, however, that fewer and fewer people seem to have the temperament to be around children. They see them as noisy wastes of time. Seems to be rooted in selfishness - and no, it was a bygone generation that thought "children should be seen and not heard." Yet that generation bred quite capably - they just knew not to treat children like little celebrities.
I am also tired of religous Christians gushing "children are a gift from God - life is so precious!" and then doing all they can to have micro-families.
This is the formula for death by democracy - the culture that created the Constitution will be replaced by a culture that does not give a damn about it, and it will be coup by ballot box. So long Western values - and by the way - so long capitalism. Cast your eyes to Africa to see what happens.
There’s a reason I put a sarcasm tag at the end of that comment.
still, I felt the need to grab the topic and run with it a stretch - no personal slight intended.
No worries, then. (-;
Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not
Yes I do care.
If they choose a new car over having babies it sickens me.
It sickens me more that kids get out of college with $100,000 in debt and then can not afford to have kids.
The West is not having enough babies.
Which is to say, behaving in the manner that makes humans superior to animals. You can behave like an animal, if you prefer. Perhaps you could start by heading for your local grocer and start smashing bottles of diet cola for their immoral decoupling of taste and calories.
Inventing arguments against the luxuries other people enjoy as the fruits of their superior achievement is a natural outgrowth of resentment. How easily some people take that first step onto the road that leads to Stalin'g gulags.
But we already have someone here who's on record as denying that post-Soviet Russia is "thriving" relative to its previous enslaved state.
This is why I keep trying to turn you away from your immoral class-resentment rhetoric. Perhaps one day you will listen.
In context, those referred to as the "underclass" are, by definition, those who knowingly that they will be relying upon the charity (or, worse, state-sponsored robbery) of others to support the children they choose to have. I for one make no bones about saying that they have no right to do so.
And other people should give a flying flip about your opinion because...?
Hey -- I just realized that it sickens me that you spend your time blathering on the Internet instead of working in a soup kitchen. So, close out your account and hop to it!
Yay. Contraception is the evil that most people are afraid to look at clearly.
Sexual gratification divorced from faithful marriage *and* procreation has been one of the main engines driving culture off into the abyss.
“those referred to as the “underclass” are, by definition, those who knowingly that they will be relying upon the charity (or, worse, state-sponsored robbery) of others to support the children they choose to have. “
Says who? You can make a definition up out of air. Me too. Underclass are the poor. Nothing said about whether they are a ward of the state.
“I for one make no bones about saying that they have no right to do so.”
And per your next comment (”And other people should give a flying flip about your opinion because...? “),
Why should I or anyone else care about your opinion, either?
See? It goes both ways.
I don't require anyone to care about my opinion, because I am merely reiterating what sensible people have already figured out for themselves.
“I don’t require anyone to care about my opinion, because I am merely reiterating what sensible people have already figured out for themselves.”
You see...we differ in our opinion. That’s all. Your opinion is no better than mine. Your claim that “sensible people” agree with you is funny.
That’s what this board is for to read news stories and express your opinion in a civil manner. Telling me to “So, close out your account and hop to it!” is not in the spirit of these discussions.
Funny, judging from your example I thought the purpose of this board was to accuse other members of being "snotty"....
I consider plenty of things immoral. Granted, I'm an agnostic and not an atheist.
If you are a Christian or a Jew, however, God said: "Be fruitful and multiply." He didn't say, "Be barren, and die." Those words of advice come from somewhere else.
As a non-Christian and non-Jew, that line of argument is not really persuasive to me.
“Too many” of anything is by definition a curse. Duh.
Your argument falls apart because it is based on the assumption that people who use contraception are typically interested in not having any children. But that's not the case- typically, contraception is used to put off having children until later in life. The aforementioned college girl wants to be able to have sex without getting pregnant at 21, since she is incapable and unwilling to raise a child at that age. She wants to wait until she's older, married, has finished her education and has some financial stability before she has kids. That is the path typically taken by people who want some success in life.
What you consider "wicked" most people consider "responsibility." We have enough kids being born in our society to mothers who are unprepared and incompetent to take care of them.
projection (pr& JEK sh&n): the tendency to ascribe to another person feelings, thoughts, or attitudes present in oneself
I do believe that you've identified the real issue here. At least Antoninus hasn't taken to vitriol-throwing....
I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say.
I guess we should stop using seat belts when we drive and football players should stop wearing protective pads when playing. After all, who are we to ameliorate the natural consequences of a car accident or impact by a 300 pound lineman?
Most young men and women who choose this "rational" lifestyle bring a lot more than a dowry to their wedding. STDs, emotional baggage, lunatic ex-boyfriends, and a pathological misunderstanding of the purpose of sexual intercourse.
Most? Nonsense. It's just sex- there's no need to be scared of it. Most people can handle their sex lives just fine.
Engaging in pre-marital sex in no way enhances one's ability to finish an education or achieve financial stability.
Perhaps. But avoiding pregnancy does.
In fact, it's a major hindrance.
Really? I guess someone needs to tell that to my educated, married and financial succesful friends that their pre-marital sex doomed them to a life of poverty and ignorance. I'm sure they'll give that "fact" the consideration it is due.
A truly responsible, rational person abstains from intercourse until they are ready and able to accept the natural consequences of the act.
Or, they simply take the necessary steps to prevent pregnancy from occurring. Works just as well.
Antoninus' argument leads to the conclusion that people should not drive or play football, thereby avoiding such undesired natural consequences.
“A truly responsible, rational person abstains from intercourse until they are ready and able to accept the natural consequences of the act.”
I agree. Thanks
A Texan endorsing the argument that people should give up cars and football? Better not let the neighbors know....