Posted on 03/18/2009 4:12:59 AM PDT by Colofornian
Are you being asked to defend the undefensible? All that can be done is to question the way questioners are asking the questions.
Deny - never refute charges- deflect - accuse. These are the tactics of one who can’t answer questions. The next step is to bear testimony.
The question is when a preexisting soul is assigned to a particular body.
It is a biological fact that something like 25% of all fertilized eggs never implant. They are simply discarded. Does each of those fertilized eggs have a soul? Are each of those fertilized eggs thus doomed for eternity because they were never born, never baptized, and never accepted Jesus?
Our Church says that the moment of “ensoulment,” for want of a better word, is not known.
Having said that, I don’t know that Orrin Hatch’s view of stem cell research matches the view of the majority of Mormons. If he believes that it’s okay to create embryos for research, it sure doesn’t match mine.
Do you have an opinion as to when a preexisting soul is assigned to a particular body?
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You just gave almost 600 words to put forth some ideas that would be good to talk about, but all you really did was talk and talk and not address the question.
As a reminder, here was what I said.
“”””””””You have done a good job of misdirecting folks with your questions.
And you were able to do it by asking misleading questions instead of saying this is your belief.
Do you believe the way your questions portray the life before this life is what the LDS Church teaches?”””””””””””
Since you again choose misdirection instead of giving an answer, I would have to conclude that you understand how you are misusing the facts.
No. Not really. I don’t believe in abortion, and have spent a good part of my life and resources fighting it. But that is not because I am absolutely convinced that ensoulment has occurred at implantation, or at some other time. What about miscarriages? Does any religion that engages in infant baptism make a definitive statement about the fate of the fetus when there is an early miscarriage? I don’t know. It’s an interesting question.
As to abortion, to me it is a question of responsibility, and the sanctity of life. If we don’t know the answer, then we err on the side of protecting life.
As to abortion, to me it is a question of responsibility, and the sanctity of life. If we don’t know the answer, then we err on the side of protecting life.
Why would these souls be domed?
I don’t believe they are. And I’ve never seen a statement from any other church about the question.
But, if you believe that a person is a “person” from the moment of conception, such that it is akin to “murder” even to use a device that prevents implantation, what does that mean? Does each fertilized egg have a soul? And if you believe that each person must be baptized, or must accept Jesus, then what is the fate of these “persons” who never even implanted? What is the fate of “persons” who are miscarried at two or three months?
Those are just musings.
My point is that there are a lot of unanswered questions, and I have no intention of demonizing anybody who comes down at a different place than me on those unanswered questions.
Yes.
And if you believe that each person must be baptized, or must accept Jesus, then what is the fate of these “persons” who never even implanted?
I believe that persons of responsible age must be baptized and accept Jesus as his/her savior. Fertilized eggs, miscarriages, and even infants who die--their souls allgo to heaven as they have not yet sinned.
While we are all affected by Original Sin, I believe that effect is limited to our mortality. It's when we, as individuals, sin, that we require a savior and salvation. Since this is pretty much a given for everyone who is responsible, we all need to repent.
Ping
Fred, you like to regularly, and I mean regularly, just sit back & ask questions and insinuate away by your series of questions. That's it. Since they are "only" questions, you don't have to "prove" them or to "document" them.
You REGULARLY engage in easy-chair insinuation. It's time to speak what you mean, and document what you mean.
I do believe they are a “person”.
I do not believe that one must be baptized to be saved. I believe baptism is an outward expression of an inward change (i.e. born again).
I also believe it is clear that children (even a fertilized egg) go directly to be with the Lord if their lives are extinguished.
God gave that assurance to King David and I claim that.
I supposed a devise that prevents implantation of a fertilized egg (IUD) is a kin to murder. I have just recently learned that the birth control pill does not necessarily prevent ovulation but will prevent implantation (sickens me as I was on the pill for years believing that it prevented ovulation but thats a different post).
You question and the empty hand speaketh...
LOL...
Good luck with that...
and defining...
Interesting. What denomination are you? We Mormons also believe that children who die before reaching the age of accountability — for us it is 8 — have no need of baptism. We don’t believe in original sin, in that we don’t believe we will be punished for what Adam did.
I don’t believe that each fertilized egg has a soul, although that is not doctrine, to my knowledge.
How do you feel about in vitro, in which it is a given that some fertilized eggs — in fact the majority of the fertiziled eggs created for the process — will never implant? I don’t have a problem with it. Our church doesn’t forbid it. To me, the critical issue with in vitro is that the intention is to create life, not destroy it. Again, that’s not doctrine.
Thanks for your response.
Some denominations do believe that baptism is essential. Some denominations believe that each person must accept Jesus in this life. I wonder what those denominations say about the literally billions of fertilized but unimplanted eggs, or early miscarriages?
I don’t believe in abortion
________________________________________
Well, I do...
Actually it doesnt take any faith at all...
Faith is believing something you cannot see etc (Hebrews 11:1)
We know for a fact that 4,000 babies are murdered through abortion every day in the US...
For a lawyer, you dont seem to be good at sematics...
Words mean something - Rush...
Did you want to say “I am against abortion” ???
You know darn well that’s what I meant. I have tried to be civil. You, as usual, are snarky because, well, that’s just who you are.
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