Posted on 04/06/2009 4:48:19 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
I recall a conservative political commentator saying that the Democratic Party was the "A" team, while the Republicans were the "B" team on the road to socialism. Boy, oh boy was that a truism. Things are moving so fast in the last six months that stage-setting events are happening so fast that no one person can keep up with events. Prophecy is on fast-forward!
Stage Setting
Virtually all future prophecy will start to be fulfilled when the rapture occurs ending the church age. Then the world will enter the time when the birth pangs that Jesus spoke of begin to be fulfilled (Matt. 24:8). This post-rapture period known in the Old Testament as the "latter days" (Deut. 4:30; Jer. 30:24; 48:47; Dan. 2:28; 10:14), the "last days" (Jer. 23:20; 49:39; Ezek. 38:16), and the "latter years" (Ezek. 38:8) will last for seven years (Dan. 9:24–27; compare with Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:6; 13:5). None of what is happening today indicates that the rapture is near since that event is a signless event that could happen at any moment. Are you ready for the rapture?
The signs of the times that are occurring today relate to Israel as God is preparing the world for the time when He will resume His plan for Israel and that will then involve the fulfillment of times and seasons. One major indicator that we are likely near the beginning of the tribulation is the clear fact that national Israel has been reconstituted after almost 2,000 years. The signs also relate to what is happening in the Gentile world as we move toward a global government centered in the Revived Roman Empire, which is mainly Europe. Dr. John Walvoord explains the significance of signs occurring in our own day as follows:
But if there are no signs for the Rapture itself, what are the legitimate grounds for believing that the Rapture could be especially near of this generation? The answer is not found in any prophetic events predicted before the Rapture but in understanding the events that will follow the Rapture. Just as history was prepared for Christ's first coming, in a similar way history is preparing for the events leading up to His Second Coming. . . . If this is the case, it leads to the inevitable conclusion that the Rapture may be excitingly near.[1]
Signs For Our Day
In every generation since Christ's ascension there have been Christians who thought that there was reason for His return in their lifetime. However, almost all of these past expectations were derived from the belief that they were experiencing events of the tribulation in their own day. Only in the last 200 years have some interpreters begun to return to a literal, futurist understanding of the impending events of the tribulation, as generally held by most in the early Church. Thus, while so many have believed that Christ's return was near, the basis for such an understanding has not always been the same down through the history of the church—that the church was in the tribulation. The fact that Israel became a nation in 1948 is an undeniable fact of history that indicates that God is up to something in history in our day that could not be said in previous times.
God's plan for history always moves forward in relation to what He is doing with Israel. Thus, the fact that Israel has been and continues to be reconstituted as a nation is prophetically significant, so significant that it makes Israel God's "super-sign" of the end times. Were Israel not a nation again it would be impossible for events of the end time to occur since so many of them take place in that tiny country or in reference to her. But she has returned and so it is that all other aspects of Bible prophecy are also being prepared for the grand finale of history.
Recently we have seen that the European Union threatened and warned Israel about not being open to the so-called "two-state solution" of the Arab-Israeli conflict in their effort to impose a human solution to the conflict.
The prospect of a new hawkish government, with Israel Beiteinu chairman Avigdor Lieberman as a possible foreign minister, will be seen in Europe as a setback to the Middle East peace process.
"Let me say very clearly that the way the European Union will relate to an [Israeli] government that is not committed to a two-state solution will be very, very different," said Javier Solana, the EU's foreign and security affairs chief.[2]
New Israeli Prime Minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, is opposed to the two-state solution, which is the EU's framework for dealing with the problem. Whatever the supposed human solution affixed to this crisis will bring, the situation will not be genuinely solved until our Lord returns and imposes His will as the ultimate solution to the situation.
Since the election of Obama to the White House, we also see the United States changing from a sympathetic supporter of Israel to one who will be pressing for an imposed solution. New Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton is said by observers of the Mid-East Conflict to have shifted her pro Israel position she displayed as a U. S. Senator from New York.
Morton A. Klein, President of the Zionist Organization of America, is just one of many supporters of Israel who say that Hillary Clinton, an outspoken supporter of a Palestinian state, has made an anti-Israel switch of late. Klein writes that the U.S. Secretary of State, once a "reliable and vocal supporter of Israel," has now taken many positions that are not in Israel's interest.[3]
Globalism
When George W. Bush was president he was ostracized and viciously attacked for acting upon the national interests of the United States within the now dominate global environment. As a pronounced citizen of the world, Obama instead insists that we must all shoulder "the burdens of global citizenship."[4] Thus, the United States of America, the last major holdout against global governance, has under President Obama joined efforts to deal with most matters within the framework of globalism. Whatever reluctance was shown in the past, America has now officially under the Obama administration joined the global community lock, stock, and barrel.
Scripture teaches that the Antichrist will rise to power out of a federation of nations that correlate in some way with the Roman Empire of two thousand years ago. Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost explains:
Now, when we turn to the prophecies of Daniel 2 and 7 and to Revelation 13 and 17 and other parallel passages, we find that at the end time, during the Tribulation period, the final form of Gentile world power is a federation of ten separate nations, the ten toes or ten horns. It seems as though Europe's leaders are advocating that which Daniel prophesied hundreds of years before Christ, when he said that the final form of Roman world power would be a federation of independent states who elect one man to take authority over them while maintaining their own sovereign authority. The more movement we see in Europe for a common market and a federation of nations, the closer the coming of our Lord must be.[5]
One would have to be totally ignorant of developments within the world of our day to not admit that through the efforts of the European Union, Humpty Dumpty is finally being put back together again. This is occurring, like all of the other needed developments of prophecy, at just the right time to be in place for the coming tribulation period. Prophecy popularizer, Hal Lindsey tells us:
"A generation ago, no one could have dreamed that an empire formed of the nations that were part of old Rome could possibly be revived. But today, as Europe is on the advent of real unity, we see the potential fulfillment of another vital prophecy leading to the return of our Lord Jesus Christ."[6]
Conclusion
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has recently said concerning the global economic downturn that we all should seek global solutions. He further said that the world has never been more willing to see globalism as the answer to our problems, to which he also promised a bright future if we join arms and march in this direction. Henry Kissinger has recently said on multiple occasions that President Obama has a tremendous opportunity to steer America toward globalism in an effort to deal with our problems. Kissinger has further opined that only globalists can solve these problems in the area of economics, environment, agriculture, religion, political, and so on.
It may be true that mankind without God and His word cannot figure out how to solve the pressing problems of humanity without some kind of global governance. However, the realities concerning these matters are always and only found in the Bible and in our Lord's plan for the future as outlined through biblical prophecy. Some critics say that we become fatalists because we trust the veracity of Bible prophecy and thereby contribute to the decline of culture and society. Yet, how can we expect people to find biblical solutions to their problems when they are clearly and vocally in rebellion against God? What Bible-believing Christian would want the unbelieving world to succeed in solving the world's problems apart from God and His word? The Bible predicts this kind of direction and outcome because man is sinful and God is righteous. However, for any individual who will listen to God's word, He has provided a way of salvation through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Listen to Him. Maranatha!
Excellent. Thank you.
Pre-Wrath means, IMHO, the period of time just before God pours out His wrath on the unbelievers and the anti-Christ. He will take us out before that happens but just before. There are two book written on the subject that I’ve read, one is “The Sign” and the other is “The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church” by Marvin Rosenthal, a Jewish believer who always believed in Pre-Trib rapture until he started doing research for himself. When he changed his viewpoint, MANY Christians dropped him from speaking at their churches, etc. He paid a price.
I read it to. He came to speak in our church for several days and evenings and explained things to us very clearly.
P.S., I pray to be ready whenever we go up. I’ve got my ticket...
I believe God's Torah is the 'mark' of God.
Exodus 13
(9) And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thy hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the law of YHWH may be in thy mouth; for with a strong hand hath YHWH brought thee out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 11
18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
from the Hebrew
226 'owth oth probably from 225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.:--mark, miracle, (en-)sign, token.
1) sign, signal
a) a distinguishing mark
b) banner
c) remembrance
d) miraculous sign
e) omen
f) warning
2) token, ensign, standard, miracle, proof
from the Hebrew
2903 towphaphah to-faw-faw' from an unused root meaning to go around or bind; a fillet for the forehead:--frontlet. 1) bands, phylacteries, frontlets, marks
Wouldn’t they be the Bride of Christ when they finally receive him into their lives? They certainly had plenty of time before the tribulation period to receive Him. Maybe they had to learn the hard way?
My understanding of that, having talked to my former Catholic pastor this morning, is that Christ was the fulfillment of all the ancient feasts and that the Sabbath was the old way. They changed it because now that the Christ came and fulfilled all the old ways, they didn’t need to celebrate Sabbath anymore and made it the day he rose from the grave. I’m paraphrasing and hoping I’m remembering it clearly. LOL.
We talked about the Temple this morning at breakfast in our home with friends who had been to Israel, one about 30 years ago and one last year. Our pastor said that the problem with having the Temple built right now is that there aren’t that many people who can trace their lineage to the Levites, and aren’t the Levites the only ones who can conduct worship there? Now, when we see them coming forth, perhaps that’s another sign of the soon-coming of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 3 (all the following are from the KJV)
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Revelation 3
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Revelation 16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Revelation 22
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Revelation 22
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
You can't surprise the wicked if you take away the righteous first. Messiah is supposed to come quickly, like a thief in the night, so people are to repent, live righteously and be watchful, lest they be caught by surprise. If you remove the righteous first, the wicked are going to notice and not be surprised.
None of us really knows whether it’s pre-mid-post or pre-wrath. Just be ready when the train comes...
Did you expect the Catholic church to say anything otherwise?
And NO, I do NOT believe the final product was successful nor error free, IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH?
Much clearer.
We have a basic disagreement . . .
You seem to believe that Holy Spirit was incapacitated in terms of His ability to insure that The Canon included all and only all that God wanted in The Canon.
I believe the opposite.
If the above is an accurate summary, then
I think I understand, now.
Throughout Scripture, God moved on fallible men to accomplish HIS purposes.
Moses got rather precise plans for the Tabernacle rather successfully.
Noah built a rather precise ark rather successfully.
David slung a stone at Goliath rather successfully.
Joshua handled Jericho per God’s specific instructions rather precisely and successfully.
Solomon built the Temple rather precisely and successfully.
St Paul seems to have managed a number of missionary journeys rather precisely and successfully with Holy Spirit changing Paul’s plans from time to time rather unexpectedly.
Even the Roman soldiers and the Jewish religious leaders—evidently by Holy Spirit’s agency—”managed” the Crucifixion and garden tomb rather precisely and successfully per Biblical prophecies they had no clue about.
. . .
Yet, by 300-400 years later . . . is it your conviction . . . that
Holy Spirit had become old and feeble and unable to fully manage compiling The Canon precisely and successfully . . . or what?
I still have a hard time understanding this seems to imagine God’s Holy Spirit to be limited in achieving God’s goals.
Yeah, since November 4th, LOL. (I’m serious.)
Holy Spirit can do whatever God wishes. Having created all that is . . . men are not exactly impossible projects for Him.
It has been my observation, however, that Holy Spirit prefers to avoid being heavy handed.
He CAN and on occasion does INSURE something happens precisely regardless.
He seems to PREFER to nudge believers and even others along in gentle ways to achieve precise results.
You seem to have a comprehension problem so this will be my last post to you.
I NEVER said the Holy Spirit was incapacitated! LOL!
I said fallible men chose to do as they pleased. I believe that is called FREE WILL.
Seems to me the comprehension problem may be elsewhere.
1. EITHER HOLY SPIRIT HAD THE CAPACITY AND THE WILL TO INSURE THAT FALLIBLE MEN COMPLIED PRECISELY THE CANON GOD WANTED
OR
2. HE DID NOT.
3. You assert that the precisely God-willed Canon was not produced.
4. So, which did Holy Spirit lack—the capacity or the will or both to insure that fallible men achieved God’s precise objective?
5. I don’t see any other alternatives. Are you hiding some other alternative in Alice’s rabbit hole? If so, please let us know what it is.
I believe there is a robust and authentic degree and form of FREE WILL.
I’m not a Calvinist.
By the same token, FREE WILL is not 100% ABSOLUTELY FREE.
NOR are things 100% determined, as I construe Biblical and ‘normal’ reality.
Somehow, twixt the two, God achieves HIS purposes without totally trashing our perceived reality of an authentic degree of FREE WILL and without abandoning 100% of God’s influences on our FREE WILL.
and . . .
Scripture insists that the steps of a righteous man are ordered of The Lord.
oist #148
I didn’t realize
That someone calling themselves a “Christian”
believed that Holy Spirit went back to Heaven or had
HIS HANDS AND VOICE TIED AND SILENCED
during that process.
I’m sure God is impressed that you’ve declared Him incompetent and/or AWOL in the compiling of The Canon.
I don’t understand this, what do you mean?
Would those you live with characterize you as equally brittle with them as your presentation hereon might indicate?
If so, I’m sure there are better ways to present one’s personality.
LOL.
For more than three hundred years the Doctors of the Church debated the issue. Some material was excluded, and some was included after great debate. I can think of no one or no occasion when God spoke to church leaders and demanded that Revelation either be included or excluded. The New Testament may be the word of God, but its organization (and translation) was man-made.
145 posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 3:53:15 PM by Melchior
I’m trying to say . . . that God The Holy Spirit had no trouble arriving at precisely The Canon of Scripture that God The Holy Spirit wanted . . . even though it involved fallible people and a process.
Actually, the process was essentially the same outlined in I Cor 14 for vetting a prophetic utterance.
It’s just that 300-400 years of process can be a bit more THROUGH THE REFINER’S FIRES than a 20 minute deliberation. And, the arriving at The Canon process was considerably more important to God and Man than vetting a modern prophetic utterance is.
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