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A Christlike approach to immigration
Mormon Times ^ | May 8, 2009 | McKay Coppins

Posted on 05/08/2009 4:20:48 PM PDT by Colofornian

A few years ago, my mom was called to be the Relief Society president in our tri-lingual ward.

I remember watching as she painstakingly translated every e-mail, note and newsletter into Spanish and Portuguese. She became friends with women who didn't speak her language. She made sure every lesson was translated.

One time, a cranky, English-speaking sister complained about the volunteer interpreters who sat in the back of the Relief Society room and offered hushed translations of the lessons. The sister said they made it hard to concentrate.

Without flinching, my mom defended the interpreters and kindly explained that it was important that ALL the sisters understood the lesson -- not just the English-speakers.

Six years and one Spanish-speaking stateside mission later, I have a profound respect for the efforts my mom made in that calling.

Unfortunately, not everyone in our church shares the same respect.

The arrest of an illegal immigrant coming home from his LDS mission in Ohio last month has sparked a fierce immigration debate in the Mormon community. No matter how much each side tries to simplify the issue, the questions aren't easy.

Are undocumented immigrants violating the 12th Article of Faith by disobeying the law of the land? Is the church encouraging illegal immigrants by allowing them to serve missions?

As Brigham Young University history professor Ignacio Garcia told the Daily Universe this week, "We can all open the scriptures and justify our side."

Many members, including Garcia, are calling for church authorities to pick a side on this divisive issue. To me, it seems like they already have.

"The church does not have an official position on immigration policy, but encourages compassion in dealing with the complexities of immigration issues," said Michael Purdy, a church spokesman. "The blessings of the church are available to anyone who qualifies for membership and accepts the gospel of Jesus Christ."

The church isn't a government agency, and it's not meant to be the deciding body for every difficult political question. Its purpose is to perfect the Saints, proclaim the gospel and redeem the dead. Should it really matter where these Saints are living, or what documentation they have?

Immigration issues are, indeed, complex, and I won't attempt in this article to make a political argument. But as long as there are immigrants living in our ward boundaries, we should be bound by our conscience, our religion and our covenants to treat them with the utmost respect and compassion.

"I remind you that no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ," President Hinckley once said.

So this Mother's Day, I'm grateful for a mom who has her priorities in place. I only wish more members were like her.


TOPICS: Current Events; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; immigration; lds; missionaries; mormon; wwjd
From the column: Should it really matter where these Saints are living, or what documentation they have? Immigration issues are, indeed, complex, and I won't attempt in this article to make a political argument.

(Ummm...I think Mr. Columnist, you already have!)

[Note, this publication is owned by the Lds church]

From the column: The arrest of an illegal immigrant coming home from his LDS mission in Ohio last month has sparked a fierce immigration debate in the Mormon community...Are undocumented immigrants violating the 12th Article of Faith by disobeying the law of the land? Is the church encouraging illegal immigrants by allowing them to serve missions?

Well, the very fact that he has put these comments in question form -- as if he didn't know the answer to them -- shows where he & the newspaper he represents stands. It's kind of like pro-abortion writers who say, "Whether or not to have an abortion is a tough decision." (Well, only those with a pre-disposition to kill are going to raise the dismembering of our offspring as a "choice").

From the column: Many members, including Garcia, are calling for church authorities to pick a side on this divisive issue. To me, it seems like they already have.

(I agree. They already have...and guess which side the Lds church has picked?)

1 posted on 05/08/2009 4:20:48 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

said Michael Purdy, a church spokesman. “The blessings of the church are available to anyone who qualifies for membership and accepts the gospel of Jesus Christ.”
___________________________________________

But how would an illegal alien “qualify for membership” when he has brokem the law and is still living in an unlawful situation ???


2 posted on 05/08/2009 4:31:10 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana
But how would an illegal alien “qualify for membership” when he has brokem the law and is still living in an unlawful situation ???

(I thought Mormons were supposedly big about obeying the law? Or is this just another say one thing publicly, but take a second or third wife undercover kind of deal?)

3 posted on 05/08/2009 4:36:05 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

What a load. Send them all to Utah, as long as the LDS agrees to provide them with all the support and benefits the taxpayers are now providing, and get us off the hook. And send Senor Ohio back to Mexico. There is a thriving LDS community there.


4 posted on 05/08/2009 4:36:27 PM PDT by La Lydia
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To: Tennessee Nana

The good news is that this should help in preventing Mitt Romney from winning the ‘12 GOP Primary race for POTUS. Being a “fake conservative” should always be unacceptable to the majority of conservative voters.


5 posted on 05/08/2009 4:45:19 PM PDT by johnthebaptistmoore (Conservatives obey the rules. Leftists cheat. Who probably has the political advantage?)
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To: Colofornian

“The church”

Its purpose is to perfect the Saints, proclaim the gospel and redeem the dead.
_____________________________________________

“redeem the dead”

Yeah, we notice...

Mormons have “perfected” that part...

OTOH...

Christians have a commission from Jesus who came to redeem the living, by sheding His blood, and dying on the cross in our place, to preach the Gospel to the living so that they may believe and be saved or not believe and be damned..

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:15, 16


6 posted on 05/08/2009 4:46:00 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian
I've always said that this is the Achilles heal of the Republican Party. We can not pretend to be conservative, God fearing people, and turn around and show nothing but contempt for those who do desperate things to come here.

I don't think it's just the RINO that do us in, it's also the CINO's. We are dealing with individual human souls that have mouths to feed and are needy. Too many CINO's get ugly and hostile and it makes us all look bad. Especially to God.

7 posted on 05/08/2009 4:59:59 PM PDT by mgist (Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hear)
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To: Tennessee Nana

But how would an illegal alien “qualify for membership” when he has brokem the law and is still living in an unlawful situation ???

- - - - - - - - - - -
I have asked that question as well on these threads. Can’t seem to get an answer.

If a potential missionary were breaking ANY other law, he/she would not be considered “worthy” to serve.

If any other member were breaking ANY other law, he/she would not be “worthy” for a Temple Recommend.

When I was LDS, illegal aliens were not allowed to be baptized since they were breaking the law. Not sure when this changed.

I suspect a reason “why” it changed. The decline in membership of the LDS over the past 10 years or so hurts tithing revenue, and these illegal members bring in more money here than they would back home.

My non LDS church has a Spanish language ministry and outreach. We encourage those members who are/maybe illegal to either return home or get their immigration status corrected (since it is dishonest) and help them do so.


8 posted on 05/08/2009 5:04:47 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: mgist

I’ve always said that this is the Achilles heal of the Republican Party. We can not pretend to be conservative, God fearing people, and turn around and show nothing but contempt for those who do desperate things to come here.

- - - - - - - - -
I agree. But there is LEGAL immigration.

My father was an immigrant
My step-father was an immigrant
My aunt was an immigrant
My step-uncle was an immigrant
almost my entire sphere of influence growing up were immigrants.

They ALL came here legally. My stepfather spent 18 months in a refugee camp in Italy working 18 hours a day for a bowl of pasta and a CHANCE to come to this country. He was that desperate to get to America.

I don’t like people who cut in line. There is NO excuse for not obeying the law.


9 posted on 05/08/2009 5:09:10 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Tennessee Nana
Glad you pointed out this excerpt from the column: said Michael Purdy, a church spokesman. “The blessings of the church are available to anyone who qualifies for membership and accepts the gospel of Jesus Christ.”

Well, this is a mighty interesting "take" by an Lds spokesman -- and one that seemingly goes against Mormon scripture -- and surprisingly in a chapter which ironically slaps Mormons on the hand -- at least those who are taking pro-illegal immigration stances.

Which section of Lds "scripture" you may ask? (Doctrine & Covenants 134).

Setting: Summer, 1835: Joseph Smith felt behooved to address slavery amongst the bigger umbrella of obeying laws, rulers, etc. Now D&C 134:1,3,5,8 all tell Mormons to obey laws, rulers & their government. But then we get to verse 12...note the highlighted words:

We believe it just to preach the gospel to the nations of the earth, and warn the righteous to save themselves from the corruption of the world; but we do NOT believe it right to...
...interfere with bond-servants,
...neither preach the gospel to,
...nor baptize them contrary to the will and wish of their masters,
...nor to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be dissatisfied with their situations in this life,
...thereby jeopardizing the lives of men; such interference we believe to be unlawful and unjust, and dangerous to the peace of every government allowing human beings to be held in servitude.

Questions:
Is this "scripture" still on the record as standing canonized authority for the Mormon church? (Yes)
Has any scripture statement superceded, trumped or "manifesto-ed" it out of authority? (No)
Well how does the Mormon church then reconcile the above statement made by its spokesman, Michael Purdy -- “The blessings of the church are available to anyone who qualifies for membership and accepts the gospel of Jesus Christ” -- with D&C 134:12?
How can lds "scripture" say that it's not "right to...preach the gospel to...bond-servants [slaves] ...nor baptize them contrary to the will and wish of their masters?" -- while simultaneously claiming the gospel can be accepted by anyone and that anyone can become a member?
Well, can slaves be baptized and become an LDS member if their master says "no?" (Not according to D&C 134:12)
What about a girl who is being "trafficked" as a slave...can she be baptized & become a Mormon even if her "pimp" says no? (Not according to D&C 134:12)
Does Joseph Smith have authority in the Mormon church or not?

And then, how can Lds agree with these pro-illegal immigration Mormon policies when their own "scripture" (D&C 134:8) says: all men should step forward and use their ability in bringing offenders against good laws to punishment??? Illegal immigration laws qualify as "good laws" do they not?
Why aren't Lds leaders & grassroots lds stepping forward to use their ability in bringing offenders to justice according to their own good book?
What? Are lds only for selective "continuing revelation?"

10 posted on 05/08/2009 5:17:11 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: reaganaut

I was an immigrant...

Although my family had been here for generations until my g-g-grandfather left...

I applied and jumped through every hoop neccessary to come back to our “old country”

My mother taught me that it was wrong to break into the sovereign country of the USA

She was appalled at the practice of women in labor trespassing on American Embassy grounds to have their babies in “America”


11 posted on 05/08/2009 5:22:05 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian

Obey every ordinance of man?


12 posted on 05/08/2009 5:30:52 PM PDT by freedomfiter2
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To: mgist

The most compassionate thing would be to secure our borders, and keep these people from breaking the law and sinning.

I’d rather send money into Mexico than have them come here illegally where they are sucking us for everything we’ve got.


13 posted on 05/08/2009 5:36:08 PM PDT by getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL (****************************Stop Continental Drift**)
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To: Colofornian

So this Mother’s Day, I’m grateful for a mom who has her priorities in place.
~~~
And my Mom and Dad taught me to Obey the Law!!!


14 posted on 05/08/2009 5:38:34 PM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: 1COUNTER-MORTER-68

;)


15 posted on 05/08/2009 5:49:12 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: mgist
I believe the Bible tells me to love and care for the 'stranger amongst ye'? Yes?

With all of my faults, and they are numerous - kinda like the stars - I don't want anyone subject to the fires of hell. Every poll takes shows the vast overwhelming numbers of immigrants vote for abortion loving Democrats, thus risking their souls.

In my previous occupation, I was the 'go see guy' when the illegals were cheated from their wages. I could have shined them on to the Labor Board, but I fear the Old Man Upstairs, cause I knew the LB was a year behind in working their complaint file.

16 posted on 05/08/2009 5:51:52 PM PDT by investigateworld ( Abortion stops a beating heart.)
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To: Colofornian
"...and guess which side the Lds church has picked?"

IMO, just like the unions and politicians....to get their money and to get their souls.
17 posted on 05/08/2009 5:55:50 PM PDT by Tainan (Where's my FOF Indicator?)
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To: La Lydia

You don’t need to send them all to Utah, they’re already here.
For Utah, I think it boils down to a numbers game, both for the church and the economy.
Utah’s economy is fueled by population growth and little else. It feeds the developers, homebuilders, bankers, utilities - all the ‘movers and shakers’ - they’ll take their money wherever they can find it.
For the church, well... what’s the difference between a cult and a mainstream religion? Numbers.


18 posted on 05/08/2009 6:00:07 PM PDT by frankenMonkey (www.citizendirect.org - this domain name for sale)
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To: Tennessee Nana

And there are a lot of hoops. But you are glad you did jump through those hoops, right?

Another thing I see is my family members who were immigrants all sought to become citizens, learn English, all were proud to become Americans, all of them voted and loved this country and were conservative.

What I see with the illegals (and I live in a high illegal immigrant area), is that they DO NOT want to become Americans, they hate this country except for what they can get out of it, they fly their Mexico flags, refuse to learn English and some openly talk about taking back California through Revolution. And we are supposed to reward them?


19 posted on 05/08/2009 6:09:21 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Tennessee Nana
Image and video hosting by TinyPic ...;0)
20 posted on 05/08/2009 6:11:50 PM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: Colofornian

Some would say that the LDS missionary program is close to slave labor.

These boys often live on Top Ramen for 2 years (running joke is you will never eat Top Ramen again), occasionally getting a home cooked meal (how often varies on the Mission they are assigned to). They have NO personal time. They live on very little money, no matter how much their family pays in every month and have schedules/rules like the following:

1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.

2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.

3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.

4. Don’t debate or argue.

5. Center your mind on your mission.

6. Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.

7. Cut your hair regularly.

8. Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.

9. Be neat and clean.

10. Bathe frequently.

11. Use deodorant.

12. Polish your shoes.

13. Iron your shirt and business suit.

14. Arise at 6:30 A.M.

15. Study for 2 hours every morning.

16. Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.

17. Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.

18. Exercise regularly.

19. Write in your journal regularly.

20. Follow the “Missionary Gospel Study Program” (31157) for your personal study.

21. Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.

22. Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.

23. Attend the general session of Stake Conference.

24. Attend general conference broadcasts if available.

25. Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.

26. Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you’ll find people home.

27. End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.

28. Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.

29. Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.

30. Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.

31. Write to your parents every week on preparation day.

32. Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.

33. Don’t communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.

34. Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.

35. Stay with your companion during all activities.

36. Do not go on road trips.

37. Do not leave your assigned area without permission (”District leaders must approve travel outside your area within the district; zone leaders must approve travel outside your district within the zone; and the mission president must approve travel outside the zone.”)

38. Do not watch television.

39. Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.

40. Do not listen to the radio.

41. Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.

42. Do not participate in musical groups.

43. Do not participate in athletic teams.

44. Do not sponsor athletic teams.

45. Do not engage in contact sports.

46. Do not engage in water sports.

47. Do not engage in winter sports.

48. Do not engage in motorcycling.

49. Do not engage in horseback riding.

50. Do not engage in mountain climbing.

51. Do not embark on a private boat.

52. Do not embark in a private airplane.

53. Do not handle firearms.

54. Do not handle explosives.

55. Do not swim.

56. Do not play full court basketball.

57. Do not play basketball in leagues.

58. Do not play basketball in tournaments.

59. You may play half-court basketball.

60. Never be alone.

61. Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is “having difficulties”.

62. Be loyal to your companion.

63. Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.

64. Pray with your companion every day.

65. Study with your companion every day.

66. Plan your work with your companion every day.

67. Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.

68. Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.

69. Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.

70. Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.

71. Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.

72. Do not arise before your companion.

73. Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)

74. Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.

75. Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.

76. Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don’t mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).

77. Do not flirt.

78. Do not date.

79. Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.

80. Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.

81. Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.

82. Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.

83. Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.

84. Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.

85. Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.

86. Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.

87. Do not counsel or give medical treatment.

88. Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.

89. Only write letters to family members and friends at home.

90. Do not telephone parents (in some areas, the mission president will make an exception to this rule and will allow 2 phone calls per year: one on Christmas and one on Mother’s day. But the actual rule in the handbook does not give any exceptions. In my mission, the mission president affirmed that the rule in the handbook is unambiguous: Don’t telephone your parents, no exceptions).

91. Do not telephone relatives.

92. Do not telephone friends.

93. Do not telephone girlfriends.

94. Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.

95. Take problems and questions to your mission president.

96. Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president (There are no checks, balances, or appeals when it comes to the authority of the mission president).

97. Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert (I have to wonder, isn’t it intrinsically disrespectful to their customs and traditions when your purpose for engaging them is to convert them from their customs and traditions and to yours?)

98. Obey all mission rules.

99. Obey the laws of the land.

100. Do not get involved in politics.

101. Do not get involved in commercial activities.

102. Do not give any information about the area.

103. Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.

104. Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.

105. Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.

106. Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.

107. Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)

108. Be courteous.

109. Provide community service.

110. Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.

111. Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.

112. Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.

113. Your mission president must approve your housing.

114. Keep your housing unit clean.

115. Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.

116. Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.

117. Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.

118. You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.

119. Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.

120. Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators. (I wonder if this is because prayer and fasting doesn’t cause strangers to convert and consequently proves to be a faith-demoting experience).

121. Maintain your health.

122. Eat a healthy diet.

123. Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.

124. Follow the approved exercise program.

125. Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.

126. Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.

127. Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.

128. Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.

129. Be immunized.

130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.

131. Budget your money carefully.

132. Keep a record of what you spend.

133. Do not spend more than your companion.

134. Do not loan money.

135. Do not borrow money.

136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.

137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.

138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.

139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.

140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.

141. Be a frugal photographer.

142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.

143. Obey custom laws and regulations.

144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.

145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.

146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.

147. Do not drive without a license.

148. Drive only Church-owned vehicles.

149. Do not drive members’ cars.

150. Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.

151. Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars. (A few investigators have asked me why the missionaries are reluctant to offer them a ride to church. The answer: giving rides is against the rules).

152. Use cars only on approved mission business.

153. Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.

154. Be conscious of safety at all times.

155. Drive defensively.

156. Wear your seat belt.

157. Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.

158. If your companion is driving, assist him or her.

159. Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.

Upon reading my comments on bicycle safety rules, a recently returned missionary told me, “I broke everyone of these rules without the least consideration for them. In Tokyo light traffic makes heavy traffic in the US seem pitiful and they usually had no sidewalks and very narrow streets.

“You didn’t stick your arm out to signal that you’re turning left because it would get torn off. I rode in snow and rain, (everyday during the rainy season) and after dark every day. It was the only way to get around on the budget we had. Anyways I don’t want to bore you but I just want to tell you that YOU’RE RIGHT.”

I have no doubt that the church really cares about the safety of missionaries, but I can’t help but wonder if they are truly being earnest with these bike safety rules. My experience has been that missionaries blatantly disregard them. In fact they must be disregarded if you are going to obey the more prominent rule of working from 9:30 A.M. to 9:30 P.M. without exception, every day.

160. Know bicycle safety rules.

161. Use extreme caution on your bicycle.

162. Do not ride your bicycle after dark.

163. Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.

164. Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
165. Go directly to your new area when transferred.

166. Find your new companion without delay when transferred.

167. Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.


21 posted on 05/08/2009 6:14:46 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: 1COUNTER-MORTER-68

AWWWWWWWWWWWWW


22 posted on 05/08/2009 6:19:36 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: reaganaut

Whew


23 posted on 05/08/2009 6:22:16 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

:)


24 posted on 05/08/2009 6:29:21 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut

Wow! I would have to tell ‘em to stick it where the sun don’t shine! This is worse than Communism. Except they don’t execute you for disobedience. They just kick you out of the Cult. (I hope.)


25 posted on 05/08/2009 6:51:07 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: BnBlFlag

Depending upon which rules are broken, you can be disciplined there, put on “probation”, sent home “dishonored”, or excommunicated.

AND you PAY for the privilege of obeying those rules. The Military has strict rules but they at least pay you.

Most LDS children start their “mission fund” by grade school.


26 posted on 05/08/2009 7:04:11 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Tennessee Nana

Hey, I was re-reading the list and this stood out:

99. Obey the laws of the land.

so illegal immigrant missionaries are breaking Mission rules as well!


27 posted on 05/08/2009 8:20:42 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Colofornian
A Christlike approach to immigration,

I, too, would take a 'christlike' approach to border invaders. By taking each one, when found, immediately to the border they crossed, insuring they go back home, and speak Christ's very words to them:

"Go; and sin no more."

Or, more likely, "Ve, y no peques más".

28 posted on 05/09/2009 3:57:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
 
"I remind you that no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ," President Hinckley once said.
 
"Houston: We have a problem."

 

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

 



Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

  2 Nephi 5: 21    'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

  Alma 3: 6    'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

 



 

August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)



 1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

 

 



We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.



 

Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).



When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."



When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

 

 

 

29 posted on 05/09/2009 4:01:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mgist
We can not pretend to be conservative, God fearing people, and turn around and show nothing but contempt for those who do desperate things to come here.

We can not pretend to be American, God fearing people, and ALLOW those who break our laws to come here and take advantage of the STUPID and budget-busting LAWS we have passed.


SEAL the borders and hand them FOOD thru the fence!

30 posted on 05/09/2009 4:07:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut
When I was LDS, illegal aliens were not allowed to be baptized since they were breaking the law. Not sure when this changed.

A LOT of things have 'changed' in the way the LDS Organization® does it's business over the years; and NO one seems to be able to say why!

31 posted on 05/09/2009 4:09:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut
We encourage those members who are/maybe illegal to either return home or get their immigration status corrected (since it is dishonest) and help them do so.I>

Ahem...

MEMBER?

32 posted on 05/09/2009 4:11:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL

GMTA!


33 posted on 05/09/2009 4:12:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: frankenMonkey
For the church, well... what’s the difference between a cult and a mainstream religion? Numbers.

Nope: ISLAM is still a cult - claimingrist to be a 'prophet' but giving HIM no other status.

34 posted on 05/09/2009 4:15:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: frankenMonkey
For the church, well... what’s the difference between a cult and a mainstream religion? Numbers.

Nope: ISLAM is still a cult - claiming Christ to be a 'prophet' but giving HIM no other status.

35 posted on 05/09/2009 4:15:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut
Thanks for posting that eye-opening list!

This is really ironic: 104. "Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions."

The purpose of the whole mission is to convince people that their own belief is false and only the belief of the mormon church is true!

Notice how MANY of these orders refer to money!

130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.

131. Budget your money carefully.

132. Keep a record of what you spend.

133. Do not spend more than your companion.

134. Do not loan money.

135. Do not borrow money.

136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.

137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.

138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.

139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.

140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.

141. Be a frugal photographer.

142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.

143. Obey custom laws and regulations.

144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.

145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.

146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.

As if the mormon church doesn't have enough in its coffers to support these missionaries. Churches I have belonged to fully support their own missionaries so that the missionary's time can be spent in preaching Christ, not in counting their pennies and worrying about whether they will have food for the next day.

36 posted on 05/09/2009 7:29:34 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama....never saw a Bush molehill he couldn't make a mountain out of.......)
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To: Elsie

37 posted on 05/09/2009 7:49:13 AM PDT by getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL (****************************Stop Continental Drift**)
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To: reaganaut; colorcountry; Colofornian; Tennessee Nana; Elsie
so illegal immigrant missionaries are breaking Mission rules as well!

The following is an excerpt from Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, Nov 2002, directly from the offical LDS site.

The Greatest Generation of Missionaries

"While we are profoundly grateful for the many members of the Church who are doing great things in the battle for truth and right, I must honestly tell you it still is not enough. We need much more help. And so, as the people of Ammon looked to their sons for reinforcement in the war against the Lamanites, we look to you, my young brethren of the Aaronic Priesthood. We need you. Like Helaman’s 2,000 stripling warriors, you also are the spirit sons of God, and you too can be endowed with power to build up and defend His kingdom. We need you to make sacred covenants, just as they did. We need you to be meticulously obedient and faithful, just as they were.

What we need now is the greatest generation of missionaries in the history of the Church. We need worthy, qualified, spiritually energized missionaries who, like Helaman’s 2,000 stripling warriors, are “exceedingly valiant for courage, and also for strength and activity” and who are “true at all times in whatsoever thing they [are] entrusted” (Alma 53:20).

Listen to those words, my young brethren: valiant, courage, strength, active, true. We don’t need spiritually weak and semicommitted young men. We don’t need you to just fill a position; we need your whole heart and soul. We need vibrant, thinking, passionate missionaries who know how to listen to and respond to the whisperings of the Holy Spirit. This isn’t a time for spiritual weaklings. We cannot send you on a mission to be reactivated, reformed, or to receive a testimony. We just don’t have time for that. We need you to be filled with “faith, hope, charity and love, with an eye single to the glory of God” (D&C 4:5).

As an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, I call upon you to begin right now—tonight—to be fully and completely worthy. Resolve and commit to yourselves and to God that from this moment forward you will strive diligently to keep your hearts, hands, and minds pure and unsullied from any kind of moral transgression. Resolve to avoid pornography as you would avoid the most insidious disease, for that is precisely what it is. Resolve to completely abstain from tobacco, alcohol, and illegal drugs. Resolve to be honest. Resolve to be good citizens and to abide by the laws of the land in which you live. Resolve that from this night forward you will never defile your body or use language that is vulgar and unbecoming to a bearer of the priesthood.

And that is not all we expect of you, my young brethren. We expect you to have an understanding and a solid testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. We expect you to work hard. We expect you to be covenant makers and covenant keepers. We expect you to be missionaries to match our glorious message.

Now these are high standards. We understand that, but we do not apologize for them. They reflect the Lord’s standards for you to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, to enter the temple, to serve as missionaries, and to be righteous husbands and fathers. There’s nothing new in them, nothing you haven’t heard before. But tonight we call upon you, our young brethren of the Aaronic Priesthood, to rise up, to measure up, and to be fully prepared to serve the Lord.

Many of you are already on this track, and we commend you for your worthiness and determination. For those of you who are not, let tonight be the beginning of your preparation process. If you find yourself wanting in worthiness, resolve to make the appropriate changes—beginning right now. If you think you need to talk to your father and your bishop about any sins you may have committed, don’t wait; do it now. They will help you to repent and change so you can take your place as a member of the greatest generation of missionaries.

Please understand this: the bar that is the standard for missionary service is being raised. The day of the “repent and go” missionary is over. You know what I’m talking about, don’t you, my young brothers? Some young men have the mistaken idea that they can be involved in sinful behavior and then repent when they’re 18 1/2 so they can go on their mission at 19. While it is true that you can repent of sins, you may or you may not qualify to serve."


38 posted on 05/09/2009 7:49:54 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama....never saw a Bush molehill he couldn't make a mountain out of.......)
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To: greyfoxx39

It warms the cockels of my heart that you claim to know what missionaries worry about.


39 posted on 05/09/2009 8:08:18 AM PDT by Old Mountain man (Blessed be the Peacemaker.)
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To: Elsie

attendee, not member. I mispoke. Calvary Chapel does not have members.


40 posted on 05/09/2009 10:06:18 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: mgist

There is no way anyone can make you look bad to God, except for yourself. As a Christian, please go to Mexico and other places and help those people (and many churches do, btw—our church has church plants in Mexico, Haiti and other poor countries—we help them get started and become self sufficient).
How does this make us bad Christians?


41 posted on 05/09/2009 3:02:49 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL

The most compassionate thing would be to secure our borders, and keep these people from breaking the law and sinning.

I’d rather send money into Mexico than have them come here illegally where they are sucking us for everything we’ve got.”

Agreed. Every time some Mormon, Catholic, Baptist big whig gets all PC, they seem to forget this one little item, that ALL illegal aliens...and many legal ones...seem to ignore.

The Ten Commandments

#10.- Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.


42 posted on 05/09/2009 3:18:40 PM PDT by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
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To: AuntB

They should learn this as well:

1”I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.” John 10:1 NIV


43 posted on 05/09/2009 4:52:53 PM PDT by getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL (****************************Stop Continental Drift**)
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To: Old Mountain man

I recall last year a few of the posts from this disenguous being accusing the Church as being bigot towards Mixicans etc!

She wants it both ways...

What ever works on maligning the LDS!

The statement was made when those misguided missionaies knock over the Catholic statues!


44 posted on 05/09/2009 9:25:32 PM PDT by restornu (In The US Republic rights are given to men from their Creator, tyrants deny the power there of!)
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To: brytlea
I promise to you that I do participate in missionary works in Latin America.

In our faith there is a difference between venial sins and Mortal sins. Not helping a God's souls in need is much closer to mortal sin, than breaking "Ceasar's law" to try and feed your family.

Yes, there should be reform. As you know, in the Catholic tradition, migrants occupy a position of almost unique reverence. They evoke our biblical heritage and have built our Church. They serve as the Church’s metaphor for itself and for the human condition; we’re a pilgrim people in a pilgrim church, passing through the world on a spiritual journey to our final home. They allow the Church to realize its mission on earth of gathering into one God’s scattered children. They provide the means for our conversion and a measure by which our lives will be judged. They are our “brothers and sisters” and, in them, we see our God: “I was a stranger and you welcomed me.”(Matthew 25:35).

To simply consider all "strangers" enemies is NOT Christian in my faith. Those that are enemies should leave, those that haven't committed mortal sins should recieve compassion.

45 posted on 05/10/2009 3:58:42 PM PDT by mgist (Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hear)
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To: restornu; reaganaut; colorcountry
I recall last year a few of the posts from this disenguous being accusing the Church as being bigot towards Mixicans etc!

She wants it both ways...

What ever works on maligning the LDS!

The statement was made when those misguided missionaies knock over the Catholic statues!

Some folks are too cowardly to say to my face what they say behind my back.

"Whatever works for maligning" those who call the LDS what it is....a scam invented by a con man.

Photobucket

46 posted on 05/10/2009 4:11:09 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama....never saw a Bush molehill he couldn't make a mountain out of.......)
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To: investigateworld
I believe the Bible tells me to love and care for the 'stranger amongst ye'? Yes?

Yes, that's why responsible Christians donate to worthwhile legitimate non-governmental charities.

47 posted on 05/10/2009 4:20:15 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: mgist
To simply consider all "strangers" enemies is NOT Christian in my faith.

I know I didn't say that. Who did? I think you have just tossed out what is commonly called a straw man.

At any rate, no longer being Catholic I don't adhere to the venal vs mortal sin idea. But, breaking the law, as far as I can tell is still sin. I understand perfectly why the Catholic church in the US has no trouble with illegal immigration, since it increases the numbers in their parishes. I don't think this is a particularly good reason to look the other way.

48 posted on 05/10/2009 6:49:27 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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