Posted on 06/21/2009 11:38:39 AM PDT by bdeaner
Firstly, it should be remembered that our prayer is a dialogue with a real person,
I hate to say it, but Mary is not a “real person” anymore and cannot hear your words. Screaming, crying, “praying,” talking to her—these are all nonsense and not Biblically supported.
No where in Scripture is it shown that anyone “talked” to someone dead or may or may not be in Heaven, aside from Christ.
Lovely and instructive post.
Good post. I am a converted Catholic and so am aware of things like this, but I am surprised by how many Catholics themselves think they are “praying to” various saints instead of requesting prayer.
The way I like to describe the difference to people is like if I was going to the hospital and asked a friend to pray for me. I am not praying TO my friend, and yes, I can still pray myself, but it helps to have others pray for us, too. Why not include those (saints) whom we are pretty sure made it to heaven.
“No where in scripture is it shown that anyone talked to..”
Saul did have that chat with Samual the Prophet via necromancy..
The issue for me has been how much did the Mother Son cults in the Middle East influence the Roman Catholic prayers to Mary Mother of Christ?
there isnt any, it is the mother son cults that were warped views of Christ and His mother...
Note I married into a LIBERAL Catholic family..... Now could you please explain to me how to invoke Mary for intercession is NOT one and the same as praying TO Mary for whatever?
By liberal I mean it this way.... they vote democrat and democrat ideology represents what they believe their priest and their Church teaches/stands for and 'Republicans' are for the rich and do not share the wealth.
**I hate to say it, but Mary is not a “real person” anymore**
Yes, she was and ISa real person. What are you going to say to Christ at the moment of your particular judgment (the moment of your death) when He asks you why you didn’t honor his Mother and Mother of God?
I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes right then!
The Early Church Fathers on Intercession of the Saints - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.
Luke 1:28 “And coming to her, he said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you.”
The Greek kecharitomene means favored by grace, graced. Its tense suggests a permanent state of being “highly favored,” thus full of grace. Charity, the divine love within us, comes from the same root. God is infinite Goodness, infinite Love. Mary is perfect created goodness, filled to the limit of her finite being with grace or charity.
Blessed art thou among women
Luke 1:41-42a “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women...”
Luke 1:48 “For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.”
Among all women is a way to say the highest/greatest etc. of a group in Semitic languages (these words would likely have been spoken in Aramaic). Mary is being called the greatest of all women, greater than Ruth, greater than Sarah, greater than EVE! Since Eve was created immaculate (without original sin), Mary must have been conceived immaculate. And, although Eve fell into sin by her own free will, Mary must have corresponded to God’s grace and remained sinless. She could not otherwise be greater than Eve. Thus, as the Fathers of the Church unanimously assert, Mary is the New Eve who restores womanhood to God’s original intention and cooperates with the New Adam, her Son, for the Redemption of the world.
Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus
Luke 1:42b “and blessed is the fruit of your womb.”
Jesus is Mary’s fruit. Good fruit does not come from anything but a good tree (Mt. 7:17-18)! The all-holy Son of God could not be the fruit of any other tree than the Immaculate Virgin.
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Luke 1:43 “And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Kyrios is the Greek word used by the Jews in the Septuagint Bible (Greek translation) for Yhwh, the Divine Name of God. In her greeting of Mary, Elizabeth is saying: “How is it that the mother of my God should come to me.” Against the heresies of the 4th and 5th centuries which tried to split the Person of Jesus into two, divine and human, denying one or the other, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD proclaimed Mary Theotokos (God-bearer, i.e. mother of God). Jesus is a single Person, a Divine Person, the 2nd Person of the Most Holy Trinity. To be mother of the Person Jesus is to be mother of a Person who is God. Mary’s title protects this truth against errors which emphasize or deny, either the divinity or humanity of the Lord.
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Luke 2:35 “...and you yourself a sword will pierce so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”
John 2:5 “His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”
Mary sees a need and appeals to Her Son to satisfy it. He does. We turn to Mary to ask her to intercede with her Son in our daily spiritual and material needs, but especially at the hour of our death. At that moment our salvation hangs in the balance as the devil makes his final foray to deter us from the path to God (Rev. 2:10). It is not surprising, therefore, that both the Hail Mary and the Our Father conclude with an appeal to be delivered from the evil one.
We don’t pray “to” Mary as you have been wrongly instructed. Rather we “ask” for her intercession. There’s a big difference there.
Very beautiful.
Great post!
It’s just all knee-jerk on the part of anti-Catholics. Their biblical scholarship is quite limited to statements made by their mentors and memorization of a few verses that seem to make their position. Poor souls. We must pray for them.
That is not so raygun fan, Horus, Zoroaster and I’m fairly certain (though not completely certain) Gilgamesh had a similar story.
Does that mean the Rosary and Mary should be discarded as anti Scriptural?
Not at all, wereas Horus and Zoroaster were simple fables, Mary and Christ were actual, for my point of view, allow it to be submitted that such was brought about to offer the Truth in exchange for the Middle Eastern fables.
I’m not certain if that was put correctly.
How is Mary going to know you are asking for 'her' intercession if you are not praying to her.? Now what was Christ's most specific instruction regarding to WHOM we pray and in 'WHOSE' name. Mary was nowhere in His instruction and there is NO Biblical record of anyone ever being instructed to ask another flesh being for intercession.... Well now save Saul who sought the witch of Endor for a face to face with Samuel.
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