Posted on 06/22/2009 7:28:34 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
No. He is one of many priests, prominent and not-so-prominent, who have spent decades spewing hatred for the Catholic Church with not a scintilla of a response from the local bishop(s) or Rome. McBrien is one of those who has been a cheerleader for Mario Cuomo, Ted Kennedy, etc., and never had a bad word for an abortionist or a kind word for a pro-lifer, yet has managed never to come right out and say, “Abortion is a good thing.” He knows that as long as he doesn’t cross that one line, no bishop and no Pope will ever lift a finger.
I am sorry.
People who preach bile like this are like gangrene. They sicken the entire Body of the Church. He should be amputated.
How many Catholic youth has he led astray in his vile career? ( rhetorical question only)
YUP. LOL.
Takes one to know one, huh Petronski?
You wrote:
“I think we have very different Bibles and very different dictionaries.”
Apparently I have the same Bible and dictionary as Martin Luther and most other Protestant Revolutionaries.
http://www.catholicapologetics.org/ap080300.htm
http://www.mariology.com/sections/reformers.html
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512sbs.asp
http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/num27.htm
Ok. So name one.
It's as asinine as dating the Presidency only as far back as the introduction of Air Force One.
The details of the appointment/election/resignation of the Bishop of Rome have varied considerably. Big deal. The point is does the Bishop of Rome teach with infallible Apostolic Authority?
Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.
That's the Papacy in a nutshell, as described in the mid-second century. All else flows from this.
Never.
We of course Mary had other Children...You know how we know that??? Because God told us it was so...He told you as well, but you like to call God a liar...
Not only did Mary have other kids, she was as full of sin as you or I...She had to be...
For you not to believe that shows you don't know or understand the person of Jesus...
Jesus became flesh so that he could be one of us...He needed to endure temptation like we do...He needed to feel pain like we do...
Had Mary been sinless, it would have been a waste of time for Jesus to become flesh and blood...Jesus had to understand our fleshy, sinful nature...If Mary was sinless, Jesus did not become one of us...
That is your misinterpretation of Scripture. It is of no use to me.
Had Mary been sinless, it would have been a waste of time for Jesus to become flesh and blood...Jesus had to understand our fleshy, sinful nature...If Mary was sinless, Jesus did not become one of us...
If that's what you call logic, I can understand your confusion.
No. I just need a bit of reason and education to recognize Elim for what it is.
So the cultists claim.
Only if you want to call the Apostles cultists...The Apostles as well as the Lord warned us about your church...
They said stay away from that religion whose leaders always want to set in the chief seats...
Stay away from that religion that calls it's priests 'Father'...
Stay away from that religion whose leaders wear long, fancy robes...
The Apostles say that all the believers are the church...Your religion says that your popes and cardinals and priests are the church...
The Apostles say 'don't follow any man'...Your religion says to follow a man at Rome, Italy...
This is just a short list...The entire list is much longer...
Jesus says to stay away from you guys...
The Apostles are all fathers of the Catholic Church.
The Apostles say that all the believers are the church...
True.
Your religion says that your popes and cardinals and priests are the church...
Nope. That's false.
The Apostles say 'don't follow any man'...
True.
Your religion says to follow a man at Rome, Italy...
Baloney. Jesus Christ is the leader of the Catholic Church.
Jesus says to stay away from you guys...
Sorry your interpretation of Scripture is so ridiculously bad.
That may be your conclusion from a personal analysis of Scripture but it flies in the face of 2,000 years of Christian tradition, the writings of the Church fathers and the teaching of the Church. Furthermore, numerous saints and mystics have testified to her perpetual virginity.
Reject all of that and cling to your own reading of Scripture at your peril. To do so is highly imprudent.
Not only did Mary have other kids, she was as full of sin as you or I...She had to be...
She had to be? How can you write this stuff when every authoritative theologian, saint, doctor of the Church and teacher down through the centuries has said the exact opposite and expounded the reasons for so teaching in clear, lucid thoughts?
Have you not read the voluminous writings on the Blessed Virgin? Or have you read them and simply rejected them? The former is ignorance, the latter is simply pride and the height of imprudence.
For you not to believe that shows you don't know or understand the person of Jesus...
And you do, of course.
Now you're adding "presumption" to your other errors. Your statement implies that we make up our mind on these issues in the same way that you do; in splendid isolation and blissful ignorance. We don't.
Our "belief" on the virginity and sinlessness of Mary is not a personal decision. We humbly submit ourselves to the accumulated wisdom of millenia and the teaching authority which Jesus gave to his apostles. We believe that the Church indeed knows Jesus as do his saints and holy ones.
What folly to make this a purely personal call and then lack the wisdom and prudence to not shout it to the world?
Jesus became flesh so that he could be one of us...He needed to endure temptation like we do...He needed to feel pain like we do...
And he did.
He was "like unto us in all things, save sin." That he did not experience. He was sinless.
How could the sinless one be enclosed for 9 months in a place of sin? There is a saying; Where God is, sin isn't". The converse is also true.
The temple of God is holy, is it not? The place where the Ark of the Covenant dwelt was known as the Holy of Hollies. Now Mary was the Ark of the New Covenant. Could Jesus the bearer of the New Covenant be enclosed in a place of sin while the former Ark resided in the Holy of Hollies?
Mary was the temple where God dwelt for 9 months. She was God's temple.
Had Mary been sinless, it would have been a waste of time for Jesus to become flesh and blood...Jesus had to understand our fleshy, sinful nature...If Mary was sinless, Jesus did not become one of us...
Where did you get this nonsense? Jesus, who is God, "had to understand"?? Are you serious?
Scripture tells us that "Jesus knew men's hearts". He knew all things. Jesus did not "have to understand". He was like unto us in all things. Save sin.
Jesus was sinless and so was the flesh which bore Him.
“Holy of Holies........”
And a notorious liberal and modernist, but we won't talk about that.
A lot of so-called "Christians" will hop into bed with anyone who is sufficiently anti-Catholic, because anti-Catholicism is the real heart and essence of their religion.
Scripture says that Jesus had "brothers and sisters". None of those "brothers and sisters" are ever identified as sons or daughters of Mary.
This is Jesus speaking in Psalms...
Psa 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.
Jesus' Mother is Mary...Mary had children...
And yet that's virtually all that's been talked about here, at least within the posts that respond directly to the article (instead of responding to other posters). All we've heard so far from the Catholic faction is how heretical Fr. Richard McBrien is, in both his beliefs and in his personal life. (Almost) no one is arguing with the central thesis of the article:
...many Catholics are led to believe that the papacy must always have been as they have known it, and most popes have been just like the popes of the 20th and 21st centuries...The pontificates of a thousand years ago were very different from any that we have experienced in our lifetimes.McBrien goes on to provide several examples from history that attempt to support & therefore "prove" the thesis, but even those aren't disputed. At best, only Claud's post #67 even attempts to engage the thesis, and then IMO only indirectly.
Should I take the silence to mean that the Catholics on FR actually agree with Fr. McBrien's thesis?
That's my point...The tradition of your religion is meaningless to me and millions of other...It flys in the face of scripture...
Furthermore, numerous saints and mystics have testified to her perpetual virginity.
Well it would had to have been 'risen' Saints that conversed with the risen Mary...You guys talk to these Saints, eh???
And then you try to convince me that your religion is right because people/spirits of the occult have confirmed it??? No thanks...Just one more reason for me to avoid your religion...Do these mystics use Tarot cards, or crystal balls as well???
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