Posted on 09/24/2009 2:24:26 PM PDT by NYer
Edited on 09/24/2009 7:57:03 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
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The tug-of-war over Ted Kennedy's soul seems to be eternal.
In a speech last Friday night to a gathering of Catholic conservatives at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, an outspoken American archbishop now heading the Vatican version of the church's Supreme Court said that politicians who support gay marriage or abortion rights cannot receive sacraments without publicly repenting their ways:
"It is not possible to be a practicing Catholic and to conduct oneself in this manner," said Archbishop Raymond L. Burke, whom the pope transferred to Rome in 2008 after Burke's often-stormy tenure as archbishop of St. Louis.
"Neither Holy Communion nor funeral rites should be administered to such politicians," Burke said. "To deny these is not a judgment of the soul, but a recognition of the scandal and its effects."
The remarks come from an account of the 50-minute speech by Deal Hudson, director of InsideCatholic.com, a conservative Web site that hosted the Sept. 18 annual gala for some 200 supporters. (Among them: American Enterprise Institute President Arthur Brooks, the National Review's Kate O'Bierne, and Ed Whelan, head of the Ethics and Public Policy Center.) Hudson was an adviser to the Bush White House on Catholic issues.
Burke's blast is not exactly a surprise, given his track record of sharp criticism of pro-choice Catholic politicians -- he has said they should be barred from taking Communion and has encouraged ministers who distribute the Eucharist to withhold it on their own initiative. Burke has not been shy about exhorting fellow bishops he sees as too lenient, either, as he did in this March interview with Operation Rescue's Randall Terry. (Burke later regretted that Terry had aired the videotape.) And he is a favorite speaker of Beltway conservatives, having given the keynote at last May's National Catholic Prayer Breakfast.
But for Burke, now a prominent official in the Vatican's judicial system, to -- in effect -- openly oppose the judgment of Boston's Cardinal Sean O'Malley (and most other bishops) regarding sacraments for Kennedy and other Catholic pols, and to, in effect, give aid and comfort to a Catholic right that has stepped up criticism of the hierarchy to fierce levels, is remarkable. Burke did not just say that politicians like Kennedy should not be provided a private funeral; he advocates denying them a funeral Mass at all.
Cardinal O'Malley earlier this month rejected that course of action "in the strongest terms," as he wrote in a blog post that was an unusually blunt response to critics of his decision to allow Kennedy a funeral Mass and to preside at it:
In his well-received speech last Friday -- the standing ovation lasted seven minutes -- Burke rejected such an approach."We will stop the practice of abortion by changing the law, and we will be successful in changing the law if we change people's hearts. We will not change hearts by turning away from people in their time of need and when they are experiencing grief and loss," O'Malley wrote.
"At times, even in the Church, zeal can lead people to issue harsh judgments and impute the worst motives to one another. These attitudes and practices do irreparable damage to the communion of the Church."
Ping!
An excellent of what we were discussing.
Wish there was a way to speak to Teddy in Hell and ask him if it was worth it.
Ya know, I am new to the Catholic Church, but I am already tired to hindsight judgement on Catholic missteps, i.e this issue, and then there is the Notre Dame speech by Dear Leader, the Church needs to stand on principles BEFORE the fact and action, not after. Just a good way to lose membership.....IMHO
Wish there was a way to speak to Teddy in Hell and ask him if it was worth it.
I’m sure Ted is getting on everyone’s nerves down there as well.
it’s much easier to slouch after a test than to stand tall during it.
The Priest remained firm and said, unless you make a complete confession, repent and make restitution, you will NOT have a funeral mass and you will not be buried in sanctified ground. I was young and had not converted at that point, so I can't remember how it turned out. I do know the Priest lived and the Mobster died.
What I cannot recall is anyone receiving a large charitable donation or that the Deviant in question made a good confession. I would have to assume no Priest had enough time to hear the laundry list of offenses. It could have taken months and there's a shortage of priests, you know.
Vatican Official: Church Erred in Holding Kennedy Funeral
barn door open, cows out, etc.
The Kennedy’s got what they wanted, now the church can pretend to regret allowing it as they pocket that extra tithe.
Welcome Home!
I am already tired to hindsight judgement on Catholic missteps
This has been going on for 2000 years ... nothing new. There will always be those two camps who disagree but, as history has proven over and over again throughout the centuries, the Holy Spirit continues to guide the Church through its shepherd.
the Church needs to stand on principles BEFORE the fact and action,
It does but there will always be those who tweak things to suit their own purposes. We have the assurance of Jesus Christ that "the gates of hell will not prevail". So, sit back, relax, and do like we do ... scoff at those who would try to undo the work of God :-)
For some reason, all I can think of is that cheer we used for a basket in high school basketball:
Burke! Burke!
He's our man!
If he can't do it,
No one can!
:)
I’m sorry RCC, the time to confront this man was while he was alive.
Cowards.
If the church were being honest, they would prove it by kicking out the rest of the homopromo abortion loving Democrats from the church.
Unconditional forgiveness serves neither the Church not God. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches us in number 1864 that the only “limit” to His mercy is the hardness of heart of the offender: “Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin." (Mark 3:29, Matthew 12:32, Luke 12:10) There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.” Forgiveness requires contrition and, on his greatest sin, Kennedy was neither contrite or repentant.
By his own admission Edward Kennedy was a flawed human being. Had his flaws and transgressions been limited to his failed marriage, the events leading up to and immediately following the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, and the rape charges brought against young men under influence, public forgiveness by the Church would be understandable. None of these represent a grave sin.
The church teaches that abortion is a grave sin and that there is a “grave and clear obligation to oppose” civil laws and judicial decisions that “authorize or promote” these acts. While there may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, there is none with regard to abortion. When a person’s formal cooperation becomes manifest, which in the case of a Catholic politician, as his consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion, that person is guilty of a grave sin. Let us not forget that Kennedy:
▪ Was rated 100% by NARAL for his pro-choice voting record
▪ Voted NO on banning human cloning.
▪ Voted NO on banning partial birth abortions.
▪ Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.
▪ Voted NO on criminal penalties for harming an unborn child during the commission of another crime.
▪ Voted NO on maintaining the ban on military base abortions.
Even if his claims to I have done his best to "champion the rights of the poor, and open doors of economic opportunity, to have worked to welcome the immigrant, to fight discrimination and expand access to health care and education, opposed the death penalty and fought to end war", this does not balance his nearly life long support for the grave evil that is abortion or excuse his complicity in the deaths of millions of innocents.
Someone better pull this archbishop back in line real fast. The funeral had to have been correct because it was permitted to occur within a Catholic church. The Church would not have made a mistake like this.
There’d be no one left to play the organ or be directors of music. Seriously.
Burke’s comments are absolutely outrageous and his actions uncanonical. To intrude into the affairs of the Archdiocese of Boston and of the Cardinal, however veiled his comments were, is beyond the pale no matter what one thinks of Kennedy.
The reason Burke was removed from St. Louis was his refusal to abode by the canons prohibiting crossing into the jurisdictions of other hierarchs. Apparently exiling him to a court which spends its time dealing with annulments and laicizations hasn’t been effective to persuade him to conform to the canons,stay out of America and avoid embarrassing the Vatican. Burke, like that character Martino, will “retire” soon; probably for “health reasons”.
Burke’s comments are absolutely outrageous and his actions uncanonical. To intrude into the affairs of the Archdiocese of Boston and of the Cardinal, however veiled his comments were, is beyond the pale no matter what one thinks of Kennedy.
The reason Burke was removed from St. Louis was his refusal to abide by the canons prohibiting crossing into the jurisdictions of other hierarchs. Apparently exiling him to a court which spends its time dealing with annulments and laicizations hasn’t been effective to persuade him to conform to the canons,stay out of America and avoid embarrassing the Vatican. Burke, like that character Martino, will “retire” soon; probably for “health reasons”.
You are right but don’t give up hope. Even the Apostles were a bunch of bumblers and they had Christ right in front of them for an example! The humans may be fallible at times, but the Doctrine is not. Welcome— and may God bless you each and every day with his peace.
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