Witness the "all" of me

Bible and The Comforter | Scribe

[Jedediah]

A manifold witness I have placed in you ,

All that is faithful and true ,

A oneness of The Father and I in one breath ,

Can you imagine this depth ,

For what once rested upon me ,

Was the one and the three in complete harmony ,

And so it is even now My fullness with you ,

For as you witness me all 3 come through ~ ~ ~

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:6-12 (King James Version)

6But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

1 Corinthians 4:18-21 (New King James Version) 18 Now some are puffed up, as though I were not coming to you. 19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord wills, and I will know, not the word of those who are puffed up, but the power. 20 For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power. 21 What do you want? Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and a spirit of gentleness?

[Kolokotronis]

The Greek says what it says. Frankly, Luke knew how to use the word "χειροτονέω" (modern Greek = χειροτονω)but in 1:22 he didn't use it. I am confused about why this makes a difference. That +Mattias was chosen by God, acting through the surviving Apostles, to be an Apostle seems pretty clear to me from the context of the chapter.

BTW, Kosta's analysis of the Greek itself is correct. Everyone should understand how remarkably accurate, precise and faithful Slavonic is to the Greek, unlike English or even Latin for that matter.

[1010RD]

Thank you both Kolo & Kosta for your insights.

I understood the passage to mean what Kolo described. Mr. Roger's quoted passage had changed the wording to “become” making the event different than the context indicates. I don't think you can dismiss ordination as a sacred act delegated to men by God. For me it speaks to the need for authority and is consistent with God's actions throughout the scriptures.

Mr. Rogers I believe you were trying to de-emphasize the need for formal authority in the modern age, no? As against modern Apostles or Prophets or any need for such, no? Emphasizing the Scriptures alone as sufficient authority to act in God's name.

At the same time, I do not understand why he used the word he did. Ordained is used elsewhere. One possible reason is to emphasize the “change” part and the “of God” part of ordination, as in the transfer of the mantle of authority under the authority of God, despite occurring at the hands of men (who are authorized to act in God's name on earth).

[Iscool]

You can opine that the Pope is not a Christian, the anti-Christ, or whatever else you want. But to say that he doesn't exist is simply absurd and to say that his existence is no more provable than UFOs is comical.

More people have seen UFOs than all of your popes combined...

I've never seen your pope...I've seen a UFO...A UFO is more real to me than your pope...

But the point is; with so many millions of people claiming to see UFOs, why would you doubt every one of them???

[wagglebee]

More people have seen UFOs than all of your popes combined...

I've never seen your pope...I've seen a UFO...A UFO is more real to me than your pope...

That explains A LOT.

But the point is; with so many millions of people claiming to see UFOs, why would you doubt every one of them???

There are over a billion Catholics, has that ever stopped you from questioning what we believe?

[Tax-chick]

This is starting to remind me of a conversation with Pat. And I have enough of those in Real Life!

[wagglebee]

LOL!

[listenhillary]

Witness the "all" of me

You're not a flasher are you?

[Mr Rogers]

I used the word I did because I was quoting the English Standard Version, which also agrees with the New American Standard - and both are fairly literal translations. The only English translation that I know of that uses ‘ordain’ is the KJV, and one of the charges King James gave the translators was not to challenge church authority/offices in the way they translated it.

Any meaning of ‘ordination’ would be a conclusion drawn from the context.

Since I don’t know Greek, I use modern translations that are considered accurate, and let the chips fall where they may. The commentator I chose explained the context, and how he felt the KJV ‘ordain’ was acceptable, and yet not entirely accurate.

I quoted it because I find the idea of modern Apostles running around with authority to order the church to change doctrine or belief, or to give divine revelation outside of scripture, utterly wrong.

One of the big - if not main - factor in determining if a book was scripture or just a good book was its Apostolic authority. If the church fathers believed Apostles were a continuing office, they wouldn’t have been so concerned. I haven’t read a lot of the church fathers, but I’d be surprised if ANY of them thought there were Apostles responsible for the Church in 150 AD...let alone that someone could ‘claim’ to be one in 2009, based on a vision he received!

[trisham]

Heh. I guess once the debate begins to compare Popes and UFOs, the conversation may have taken a wrong turn.

[wagglebee]

You think?

[trisham]

Could be. :)

[Tax-chick]

I used to think I was peculiar, but not anymore. I’m dull as dishwater compared to the Truly Weird.

[humblegunner]

God will not be mocked and even King David knew not to touch God’s anointed meaning his chosen children .

And that would be... you?

[marbren]

I am trying to make a point.

You said: Faith transcends reason/logic I can agree with this.

Then you said it does not contradict or oppose it.

Here I am not so sure. Let me try this:

Let's say you are one of Jesus' disciples and there are 5000 men, not counting women or children, in front of you. Jesus tells you to give them something to eat. If you trust in common sense and/or reason/logic you have a big problem to solve.

[wagglebee]

When the existence of UFOs and ETs is considered as valid as the existence of a known human being, things have gone off into some tangent of the bizarre that I don’t even want to know about.

[Iscool]

There are over a billion Catholics, has that ever stopped you from questioning what we believe?

And millions of those Catholics have seen UFOs...And you think they're all quacks???

[Iscool]

The only English translation that I know of that uses ‘ordain’ is the KJV, and one of the charges King James gave the translators was not to challenge church authority/offices in the way they translated it.

Never heard that before...You got any kind of a source for that???

[Tax-chick]

We all like science fiction here, so I’m indifferent on the question of aliens. If there were, it would be cool, but it might be annoying, too. I like fictional Goa’uld much better than I’d like real ones!

[Iscool]

Heh. I guess once the debate begins to compare Popes and UFOs, the conversation may have taken a wrong turn.

Didn't really turn that way...Towards the front, modern day prophets were being compared with UFO believing NUTS like myself...

Just trying to find out the connection between the two...

[marbren]

What if you are a slave to Christ. Isn't the master responsible for you? Can you trust your master?

What if the control you think you have is only an illusion. What if all control actually lies with the master. Isn't this a liberating concept? What if all God wants is for you to trust him and not yourself.