Researcher Says Text Proves Shroud of Turin Real

AP ^ | 11/20/09 | Ariel David

[maine-iac7]

One from the 11th Century, 100 years before the earliest C14 date. A written description of the Shroud from the 10th Century, the sermon of Gregorius Refendarius, delivered on August 14, 944, survives that describes the cloth depicting the body of Christ with its blood stained wounds.

I also approach it from my experience, as as portrait painter, from the art evidence.

Long before photography, painting was the only way to depict people or things.

For churches, the method most used was Icons and mosaics/paintings on cathedral ceilings.

Most of the icons, starting long before the folk who desperately want the Shroud to be a hoax, show that they were all taking the likeness of Jesus from a common source.

Many of those artists painted 3 wisps of hair on the forehead - having mistook the rivulets of blood for hair.

This is my favorite of the Iconic paintings and following is a link to a well done site that shows how the face in the shroud corresponds to the Iconic depictions...hardly a coincidence.

Pantocrator, St. Catherine's Monastery.

http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/pantocrator.htm

http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/pantocrator.htm

the Hagia Sophia Christ

...

Just to scratch the surface...

LIVE LINKS NEXT POST

[maine-iac7]

live links corresponding to my last post

http://touregypt.net/featurestories/catherines2-1.htm

http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/pantocrator.htm

[maine-iac7]

Sepphoris

http://www.bibleplaces.com/sepphoris.htm

[TASMANIANRED]

Both very beautiful.

[annalex]

Tradition has it that St. Luke wrote the first icon of Mary, who he clearly knew personally.

Let us remember that while the Jewish culture discouraged portraiture, the Greeks were excellent at it. It is possible that artists of some skill created the first icons of Jesus either because they met Him personally, or through trial and correction by those who met Him, — like police sketches are done today.

For that reason, we should not be surprised that the shroud matches the iconography, whether or not the first iconographers worked from the shroud or from other sources, like I outlined.

[vladimir998]

Barbara Frale is a serious, heavy weight historian. She discovered the ms. that showed the Church recognized the Templars were innocent - sadly long after theit trials.

[Larry Lucido]

An enhanced closeup.

[AuH2ORepublican]

I recall seeing, years ago, a Catholic priest on a TV explaining that prior to the Shroud being taken to a certain church (maybe it was Hagia Sophia, I can’t remember) Christian imagery in Europe always depicted Jesus without any facial hair, and it was only after they saw the Shroud in the year 1000 or so that they began depicting Him as bearded. Could my recollection be correct?

[paulycy]

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“...cosmopolitan, with the inhabitants speaking more Greek than Arabic”

Arabic? (snicker)

[Melian]

I like that photo. Most images only show the face in close up.

[annalex]

Way before AD 1000. It is a fact that till about 4c the Western images of Christ all show Him as a Roman patrician, clean shaven and dressed in the Roman style.

Christ as the Good Shepherd
Catacomb of San Callisto
end of the 2nd and beginning of the 3rd century

At some point the Byzantine iconographic standard becomes established:

First known image of Christ with a beard (4c.)
(source)



San Apollinare Nuovo in Ravenna, Italy
6th century

I would attribute the change to simply spreading the Byzantine iconographic tradition westward, but of course the shroud of Turin may have been an enlightening influence as well.

[AuH2ORepublican]

Thank you. Do we know when Jesus was first depicted with a beard in the East?

[annalex]

We don’t, because the East suffered from iconoclasm. The earliest extant icon is St. Catherine’s Pantrocrator, already posted in this thread, but it is only 6c.

However, unlike the West, the East treats icons as true portraits. It is forbidden to alter facial features of Christ or the saints. So we have to assume that the icons always had Christ bearded.

It is, of course, consistent with the Jewish custom to grow a beard.

[Swordmaker]

I recall seeing, years ago, a Catholic priest on a TV explaining that prior to the Shroud being taken to a certain church (maybe it was Hagia Sophia, I can’t remember) Christian imagery in Europe always depicted Jesus without any facial hair, and it was only after they saw the Shroud in the year 1000 or so that they began depicting Him as bearded. Could my recollection be correct?

Early Christian iconography typically showed Christ as clean shaven often shown with sheep... but around the 3rd to 4th Century the bearded older man imagery started replacing the clean shaven young man icons.

[Swordmaker]

“...cosmopolitan, with the inhabitants speaking more Greek than Arabic”

Arabic? (snicker)

I think he meant "Aramaic."

[vladimir998]

You might think so. I am not so sure.

[WVNan]

That first picture in post #32 appears to have the blood drops drawn in on the forehead as hair. The trajectory is exactly the same as on the Shroud.

Can't stay to comment. Busy day.

[Swordmaker]

Told you I was skeptical:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2391848/posts?page=1

[maine-iac7]

I recall seeing, years ago, a Catholic priest on a TV explaining that prior to the Shroud being taken to a certain church (maybe it was Hagia Sophia, I can’t remember) Christian imagery in Europe always depicted Jesus without any facial hair, and it was only after they saw the Shroud in the year 1000 or so that they began depicting Him as bearded. Could my recollection be correct?

Your recollection of what the priest said may be correct - but the priest was wrong. Despite the fact that they are now in possession of the Shroud, the church has not been overly friendly to it nor claim it's authenticity

My favorite of the early depictions of Jesus is the Iconic painting in the St Catherine's Monastery in the Sinai, the Pantocrator.,,painted in the 6th or 7th century

This, I believe as a portrait artist, is taken straight from the Shroud.

There were hundreds of icon paintings done for churches everywhere with this visage, differing only in the different artists hands.

Now here is one done 1090-1100, same face, but notice the wisps of hair on the forehead? the were many done like that. They mistook the wisps of blood stain in the forehead in the Shroud for wisps of hair.

Did I post this link before?

http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/pantocrator.htm