Posted on 02/24/2010 11:17:16 AM PST by Pyro7480
Do you owe your salvation to Mary?
What exactly did she do to redeem your sins?
Did she die on the cross for you?
What sacrifice did she do which atoned for your sins?
Is giving birth to a PERFECT child somehow a sacrifice worthy of praise?
Is raising a PERFECT child somehow a burden on a par with giving your life as a sacrifice for the sins of those who hate you?
I really don't get this obsession with Mary. She's mentioned just a handful of times in the Bible, yet many Catholics put her on an equal plane with Christ. They may say they don't, but they do. I dare say that in my experience, it seems that Catholics by and large pay a lot more attention to Mary than they do to her son.
I suspect you are one of them.
Apart from the fact that the exegesis of these verses is, shall we say, rather dodgy, there is another matter that draws attention here:
Every time a non-Catholic makes the observation that Catholic devotion toward Mary appears to verge on adoration (and, yes, I understand the distinction made within Catholic theological circles between adoration and veneration), Catholics tend to respond, almost huffily, that the dogma concerning Mary is a rather minor part of Roman doctrine, practice, and piety, and, further, that it only is meant to glorify her Son Jesus Christ, so what are you Protestants getting so exercised about.
Yet, no sooner has such a conversation ended - in the usual way - but yet another article about Mary appears, Mary as mediator. And often, it is the same people saying Marian dogma is not important that continue to post still more advocacy of Marian dogma. Now call me misguided and evil if you will for pointing this out, but such actions will tend to lead any normal person into musing, “Methinks thou dost protest too much.” You see, when it comes to words and deeds ... well, you get the picture I think.
By saying "yes", to God, she gave us our Savior, and a very needed example of what a real Christian woman is.
Isn't painfully obvious to see how the world has distorted that image of a real woman? I grew up being told that woman don't need men, Madonna the singer, was a role model for little girls who became over sexualized, and the world suddenly became all about selfishness. Do you have any idea what it is like to be an innocent girl being bombarded with images of icons of Pamela Anderson and Brittany Spears?
The Blessed Mother, on the other hand, reminded me that I have a mission to serve. She taught me that through my Catholic mother's beautiful example. I wanted my mother to divorce my lost father, and she told me she had a Christian responsibility to take care of his lost soul. Of course I thought she was "ridiculous" at the time. She suffered, was humiliated, and she loved my father and me, regardless of her personal feelings or what others told her. My mother knew what real love meant. Because of that, I never doubted in the Jesus my savior. I did question His love for me, and the Blessed Mother made those difficult moments easier. She faithfully witnessed the torture, humiliation, and murder of her son. Not something just "any woman" could do. She trusted in God no matter what she faced.
A mother is key to Christianity. We play a major role in society and our children's beliefs. Mary's example is huge, as are most biblical figures. All biblical figures play a role in our faith. Jesus didn't act alone.
God knew what He was doing.
Was the salvation of man wholly dependent upon some woman named Mary agreeing (by some act of her free will) to become the Mother of Jesus?
If she had said no, would we all be dead in our sins today? Or would God have found another worthy vessel?
There is also the fact that the Blessed mother has appeared in various forms as an angel/messenger. She has performed many miracles in human history such as theVirgin of Guadalupe, which converted millions of pagan indians to Christianity.
She has appeared many times, and with various forms. Human history, which is God's history did not stop with Revelations in the bible. We are currently living out the prophecy that Our Lady of Fatima warned us about in 1907.
I respect and love you as a fellow Christian. The very least you can do is lovingly educate yourself about which you speak. I suggest Dr. Scott Hahn, who can explain our beliefs from a Protestant perspective. Scott Hahn . I know Catholics aren't perfect, but it isn't because of our love of biblical figures. There are too many CINO's, and a few "pharisee" types who have dissapointed me. I have leave my disspointment at the altar, because God blessed me with a loving catholic mother that showed me God's love and mercy. Condemnation is not from Jesus, salvation is.
Does that mean you are not going to answer any of my questions?
There is also the fact that the Blessed mother has appeared in various forms as an angel/messenger. She has performed many miracles in human history such as theVirgin of Guadalupe, which converted millions of pagan indians to Christianity.
I don't believe any of that stuff. Sorry. Those are all fairy tales with no legitimate basis in reality.
The very least you can do is lovingly educate yourself about which you speak. I suggest Dr. Scott Hahn, who can explain our beliefs from a Protestant perspective. Scott Hahn .
Why don't YOU educate me. You can start by answering the questions I asked in posts 161 and 164.
Either that or invite Scott Hahn to come here to Free Republic and have him answer the questions.
A while back I managed to drag Francis Beckwith here to post a a single response to me in regard to his re-conversion to Catholicism, but he didn't stick around to defend his ideas or promote his newest ones. I asked him several questions about his beliefs, particularly in regard to the issue of he veneration of Mary. He never responded. Others tried to get him to answer their questions as well, but he never did.
I doubt if Scott Hahn would be willing to come to Free Republic and stick around and answer a few questions here either.
WOW.
I didn’t realize that the magicsterical stretched so many rubberized verses over so much farcical theological geography.
Incredible!
What a sad testimony to the
human
and
demonized human capacity to
concoct virtually ANYTHING
out of Scripture that one is determined to concoct.
If there was a spirit that appeared and did those things it was not Mary.
I don't want to seem to harsh, but the Marian worship of RC's is not Christian. The powers and special authority RC's claim Mary has is not Christian. Mary was a wonderful woman and a good mom nothing more.
It is Jesus who Christians worship and offer thanks to and pray to God the Father through. Mary is not a part of any of that for Christians.
I don’t want to seem to harsh, but the Marian worship of RC’s is not Christian. The powers and special authority RC’s claim Mary has is not Christian. Mary was a wonderful woman and a good mom nothing more.
It is Jesus who Christians worship and offer thanks to and pray to God the Father through. Mary is not a part of any of that for Christians.
= = =
INDEED.
UNMITIGATED NONSENSE:
Psalm 45:9 (New International Version)
9 Daughters of kings are among your honored women;
at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.
Psalm 45:9 (The Message)
8-9 “Your ozone-drenched garments
are fragrant with mountain breeze.
Chamber music—from the throne room—
makes you want to dance.
Kings’ daughters are maids in your court,
the Bride glittering with golden jewelry.
Psalm 45:9 (Amplified Bible)
9Kings’ daughters are among Your honorable women; at Your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir.
Psalm 45:9 (New Living Translation)
9 Kings’ daughters are among your noble women.
At your right side stands the queen,
wearing jewelry of finest gold from Ophir!
Psalm 45:9 (Young’s Literal Translation)
9Daughters of kings [are] among thy precious ones, A queen hath stood at thy right hand, In pure gold of Ophir.
Psalm 45:9 (New King James Version)
9 Kings’ daughters are among Your honorable women;
At Your right hand stands the queen in gold from Ophir.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
INJECTING MARY into the above verses is UNMITIGATED BALDERDASH.
What a hideous stretch of a vivid imagination.
What intellectual and theological dishonesty to one’s self and to others to even pretend such craziness had any validity at all.
The woman is a sign , thats what John called her..she is Israel, the nation that gave birth to Christ.
John KNEW MARY if it was Mary He would have said so .
The bible says that the Holy Spirit in Elizabeth proclaimed Mary was "Blessed among women", and you want to insist she was just another good mom.
It is because of Jesus my savior that I love my spiritual mother, like my earthly mother. I don't worship my earthly mother either. I honor her. As God commanded.
My concern isn't your opinion about Mary, I simply find it offensive that Jesus mother would be treated like a pagan Buddha. I don't like it when my own mother is disrespected either. I'm sure your faith is completely perfect. Just be carefull that you are not offending God.
John 15:
“I have told you this so that you may not fall away. They will expel you from the synagogues; in fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he is offering worship to God. They will do this because they have not known either the Father or me. I have told you this so that when their hour comes you may remember that I told you.”
All this proves is that your religion is spiritually bankrupt...
In the reference you cited, the queen mother was the intercessor for another son...She interceded all right...Then the King had the the other son murdered...
The only lesson in this is that you might want to be careful when you ask your queen mother to intercede for you...
You know why that doesn't matter??? Because the New Testament wasn't written in Hebrew or Aramaic...It was written in Greek where there is the word cousin...
You mess with that book and God messes with your mind so that you invent all kinds of unbiblical stories about Mary...
I'm just starting out on this thread so I assume you have been set straight by many bible believers already...But just in case, if you guys would put as much time into reading the scripture as you do reading your 'church fathers', you wouldn't be asking these questions...
Jesus' family at the time were not believers...John was far more of a brother to Jesus than his family...Jesus wanted to leave His mother in the care of a Christian...
No one on this side is interpreting anything...We're just believing it as God breathed it to the Disciples...
You don't have the original Greek...You have never seen the original Greek...You don't know anyone who has ever seen the original Greek...Any more intellectual questions???
The only thing your author demonstrated is that he doesn't believe the God breathed scriptures and that he will go to any means to pervert the words of God...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.