Exceptions to celibacy rule puzzle priests

cns ^ | March 8, 2010 | Cindy Wooden

[AliVeritas]

So priest requirements are back?

I’m confused.

And could you expand re: 70 CE?

[Uri’el-2012]

I have it on good authority the the newly formed Sanhedrin
is planning a Korban Pesach this coming Pesach.

The first since 70 CE

An altar made from uncut stones is being assembled near Jericho.

It was dedicated this past Tisha B'av.

Tisha B'av was auspicious as it was the date of the destruction of the Temple in 70CE.

At some time in the near future the altar will be moved to the temple mount.

The first Korban Pesach was during the Exodus.

Yah'shua presented Himself as the Korban Pesach to cover our sins.

Look up ! Yah'shua is coming very soon !

In order for the Evil One
to end regular sacrifice
at the middle of the tribulation,
it must start;

Daniel 9: 26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

Daniel 11: 31 "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.

Daniel 12: 9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.
10 "Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
11 "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
12 "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!

Regular Passover sacrifice will be restarting after 1940 years.

The Sanhedrin is planning to restart the sacrifice of Lambs at Passover this year.

See Korban Pesach

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Grunthor]

No by my logic the only acceptable criteria for a heart surgeon that is going to cut on me is one who has performed the surgery.

[verga]

It cracks me up that I had to sit down with a priest several times for marriage “counseling” prior to being married in a church. What do you know about marriage? Nothing, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express!

All Priests have a minimum of Masters degree, the Majority have 90+ credits at that level. This includes many of hours in training for counseling. They also have been exposed to many more troubled marriages than just about any lay person.

So given the choice I think I would rather talk to a priest with training than someone that just hangs a shingle with a Bachelors degree

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“You just lost credibility.”

No, actually I didn’t. Only those who don’t know any good priests believe as you do.

“Someone can read a hundred books and hear a million stories, but if they haven’t been married and personally raised the children that are the fruits of a marriage, then they are the farthest thing from an expert.”

I never said ANYTHING about “reading a book”. Also, I know plenty of people who were wise about life in all its aspects without having lived them all themselves.

“They’re not even an amateur. I have three children and laugh in the face of anyone without children who tries to give me advice.”

Yeah, and I am so sure that your kids turned out just peachy.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Raping children is obviously the opposite of celibacy.”

NO!!! The opposite of celibacy is marriage. For you to even put religious celibacy and raping of children on the same spectrum makes you look like a nut.

“However if you are going to challenge that there isn’t a higher population of child sexual abusers in the clergy than the general public, I’ll take you up on it.”

And you would lose. There’s probably more sexual abuse in public schools than among Catholic priests.

[Flightdeck]

“NO!!! The opposite of celibacy is marriage. For you to even put religious celibacy and raping of children on the same spectrum makes you look like a nut.”

Wow. Just wow. You’re calling me a nut...

“And you would lose. There’s probably more sexual abuse in public schools than among Catholic priests.”

So, in your world, “the public schools” is a synonym for “general public”. I don’t usually find debates this easy to win outside my children’s elementary school. And despite what another ill-mannered poster on this message board said, my children are adapting quite well to the world with two loving parents, thank you very much.

So to recap: I posit an objective, verifiable fact. Three people respond by calling me crude names and/or speculating that my children are maladjusted because of my apparent insanity. Well I think those of us who have decent analytical skills can see what’s up for themselves.

[Flightdeck]

“Apparnetly providing evidence and literacy are not your strong suits.”

I’ve published two engineering textbooks and three novels. Apparently spelling is not your strong suit.

You think I’m embarrassing myself? You’re the one talking about buttholes and ignoring the factual debate...

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Wow. Just wow. You’re calling me a nut...”

What is the opposite of celibacy?

“So, in your world, “the public schools” is a synonym for “general public”.”

No, but “general public” doesn’t make sense as a guidepost. What “general public”? Where? When?

“I don’t usually find debates this easy to win outside my children’s elementary school.”

You debate children? I bet you just think they’re easy to win. You probably regularly lose to fifth graders.

“And despite what another ill-mannered poster on this message board said, my children are adapting quite well to the world with two loving parents, thank you very much.”

We’ll see if that’s true in fifteen or twenty years.

“So to recap: I posit an objective, verifiable fact.”

Such as?

“Three people respond by calling me crude names and/or speculating that my children are maladjusted because of my apparent insanity.”

A logical concern.

“Well I think those of us who have decent analytical skills can see what’s up for themselves.”

You don’t have the skills you believe you have.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“You think I’m embarrassing myself? You’re the one talking about buttholes and ignoring the factual debate...”

What facts?

[Palladin]

“Naturally, renouncing sexuality — an important part of human love — has a cost. But much less than most people think,” he said. “To the degree that a person gives himself fully to the aim of his life and the reason for his existence, chastity costs less. To the degree that the person forgets himself and gives himself to others, renouncing sexuality weighs less because it is lived in the fullness of a freely chosen love.”

Disagree.

“It is not good for man to be alone”. ~ GOD, Old Testament

[Flightdeck]

“We’ll see if that’s true in fifteen or twenty years.”

Ah yes, it was you that despicably brought my children and parenting skills into the mix. Don’t post to me ever again.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“It’s not an opinion that the catholic church has reeked with corruption since its inception, it is an objective fact.”

According to whom? What authority?

“I can name several examples, if you’d like, spanning the years between the selling of indulgences and the recent cover up and blind eye of horrific sexual abuse.”

1517 to 2001? I though you said “since its inception, it is an objective fact.” Are you now changing stories?

“Yet, you decide to call me a butt hole. Which verse was that in the bible?”

Although that word isn’t in scripture, Proverbs 18:7 and 15:2 come to mind.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Ah yes, it was you that despicably brought my children and parenting skills into the mix.”

No, actually you brought it up:

Post #65: “I have three children and laugh in the face of anyone without children who tries to give me advice.”

“Don’t post to me ever again.”

Gee, you’re not crying are you? Man up. Also, I think it’s instructive that just when people start demanding facts from you you bail on the conversation. Coincidence? Yeah, right.

[boatbums]

No useless "tripe" at all! Paul's admonition was "because of these present times." The church was under immense persecution and evangelists would not have the added burden of protecting their families. Paul, however, was speaking to all the believers. He also spoke of those who had the "gift" of celibacy, which sounds like it was not just a chosen condition. Perhaps the men or women not interested sexually with the opposite sex, are really those with this gift, but, as with any good gift from God, Satan has perverted it to same sex attraction. Just a thought.

As to why Jesus never married, it's simple, his ministry on earth was for a limited time which he knew. It would have been pretty awful to have married someone and had children knowing they would be left without a provider or protector during a difficult time. That was not Jesus' purpose for his life on earth.

As to religions having their own rules, I could not care less, I just think it disingenuous to insist theirs is the only true or valid way in which a man may be a faithful and productive clergyman.

[BenKenobi]

“No useless “tripe” at all!”

Yes, insisting that clerical celibacy is false is an entirely different preposition than saying that your church prefers to go a different way.

I have no issue with congregations that choose to have married pastors, that is their choice. I don’t think it’s too much to expect that same courtesy to be extended to what the Catholic church teaches.

“Paul’s admonition was “because of these present times.” The church was under immense persecution and evangelists would not have the added burden of protecting their families.”

Hardly. Paul is very explicit in his reasoning. He said that the one who marries has his attention divided, whereas the unmarried are free to devote themselves entirely to God. Nothing temporal there, and just as true today as it was in his time.

“Paul, however, was speaking to all the believers. He also spoke of those who had the “gift” of celibacy, which sounds like it was not just a chosen condition.”

Some are, some aren’t he said that some choose the discipline, where others would prefer it to marriage.

[verga]

You think I’m embarrassing myself? You’re the one talking about buttholes and ignoring the factual debate...

Oooooo Great comeback and no evidence. Sniff, sniff, sniff Yeah I thought so