The Fine Art of Godly Mockery

Zianet ^ | April 20, 2003 | Al Maxey

[aimhigh]

Interesting, thanks for posting.

[colorcountry]

Mockery, Sarcasm and Satire... But remember to do it in love and never lose track of the end result.

Thanks for the thread.

[delacoert]

Some of God's people today are ill-informed and misguided. For a few, however, these characterizations are much too generous! A healthy dose of responsible ridicule and godly mockery might just be what the Great Physician requires for some professing His name! Some people respond well to subtleties .... others need a two-by-four between the eyes!

[reaganaut]

While I did get tired of non Mormons mocking my beliefs when I was LDS, it did also get me to think about things, which in turn led me out.

[Vendome]

Huh? What do you really mean? /s

[Logophile]

There is a fine line, however, between responsible ridicule and malicious mockery, and what begins as an honorable effort to separate truth from falsehood can quickly deteriorate into vicious villainy.

I find it too easily to stray over the line, especially in the heat of an argument. For that reason, I try not to mock others' religious beliefs.

"A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger." (Proverbs 15:1)

[Graybeard58]

Well, let’s not forget what happened to the 42 children that mocked Elisha:

2 Kings 2:

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

[Running On Empty]

I would say that your approach is prudent, and uses discretion; in short, it is wisdom.

[Logophile]

While I did get tired of non Mormons mocking my beliefs when I was LDS, it did also get me to think about things, which in turn led me out.

Strange. I had much the opposite experience.

I was on my way out when some of my agnostic ex-Mormon friends began to mock the LDS church. I was struck at how unfair and mean-spirited they sounded. That got me to look more closely at other things they said. Far from being disinterested seekers after truth, they were just as partisan, closed-minded, and unreasoning as they accused religious people (Mormons and non-Mormons alike) of being. That was a turning point for me.

The more vitriolic the accuser, the less convincing the accusation.

[Logophile]

I would say that your approach is prudent, and uses discretion; in short, it is wisdom.

Thanks for your kind words.

[Revelation 911]

amen

[reaganaut]

I’m not saying vitrol necessarily but pointing out absurdities and contradictions in a way that made me mad enough to take a hard look.

Of course, those that were mocking were not atheists/agnostics either.

I’m sorry you stayed in. You shouldn’t base your eternity based upon a few people. You should take a real hard look. Life in Christ is so much sweeter than life in the LDS.

[reaganaut]

I have also noticed a big difference in tone between ex-Mo atheists and non-mo believers.

It does no good for Mormons to leave Mormonism and not become Christians. That is pointless.

You will also find that mockery isn’t really my style. I much prefer to take a moderate tone and discuss the issues. You will not see me use terms like “Joe Smith” or ever lie about LDS doctrine. I know enough about the LDS to debate solidly without mockery. But I do think there can and is a time and place for satire.

Those who made me mad enough to investigate Mormonism more thoroughly DID have an affect on me leaving. Sometimes we need a 2x4 to the head in order to think and see things for what they really are.

All is NOT well in Zion...

[LeGrande]

Thanks for the ping. I can see that I am going to have to up my Godly mockery. Monty Python should give me some inspiration : )

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[restornu]

While I did get tired of non Mormons mocking my beliefs when I was LDS,

it did also get me to think about things, which in turn led me out.

***

4 ¶ And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable:

5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.

8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?

10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

[Quix]

WHY A DUPLICATE THREAD ON THE SAME TOPIC????

[Elsie]

Good post!

I really like the alliteration of...

Moses-mimes and mandate-makers

As well as...

Earlier in the latter chapter, Jesus mocked the rigid religious leaders with these words (aptly paraphrased in the Living Bible) ? ?You would think these Jewish leaders and these Pharisees were Moses, the way they keep making up so many laws! And of course you should obey their every whim!? (Matthew 23:2-3).

Which could be be construed as:

You would think these MORMON leaders and their circumcision group were Moses, the way they keep making up so many laws! And of course you should obey their every D&C!?

 

[Elsie]

 For that reason, I try not to mock others' religious beliefs.

 

 

Good idea; but I wonder if MOCKERY was the effect these guys were trying for:

Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?

 [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'.

When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'?

[Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly:

"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73);

"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171);

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199);

"And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24);

"Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed:

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

"This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44),

"But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated:

"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167);

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said:

"Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266).

"For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear:

"Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265);

"Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132);

"virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269);

"Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated:

"the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).