Posted on 03/23/2010 10:58:16 AM PDT by delacoert
An acquaintance of a noted Greek philosopher once lamented, "They deride thee, O Diogenes!" Unperturbed, the philosopher replied, "But I am not derided." Diogenes, who lived from 410-320 B.C., understood that truth, if it is truth, can never be truly harmed by mockery, ridicule or derision .... nor can those who promote it. Falsehood, on the other hand, will easily wither under intense and finely focused disparagement. Thus, ridicule and mockery have long been employed as legitimate devices for distinguishing fact from fallacy.
There is a fine line, however, between responsible ridicule and malicious mockery, and what begins as an honorable effort to separate truth from falsehood can quickly deteriorate into vicious villainy. Thus, there is indeed a fine art to practicing what might be termed godly mockery. Since so few people have mastered this art, most critics suggest this device should not be utilized at all. Some even believe it sinful to employ it. That is a case of casting out the baby with the bath water, however. There is no need to be so radical, if one is simply willing to be responsible.
A scalpel in the hands of a surgeon may result in healing for the one upon whom he uses this blade. In the hands of a sadist that same instrument will inflict harm. It is not the device itself, but the mindset of the one who would employ it, that determines the nature of the outcome. The same with mockery. It can result in suffering or salvation depending upon the heart and mind of the mocker. Some young lads, for example, mocked Elisha and were torn up by two female bears (2 Kings 2:23-24), whereas Elijah mocked the false prophets of Baal (1 Kings 18:27) and won a great victory over them at Mount Carmel. The latter was skilled in the fine art of godly mockery, the former were not. The difference was one of life and death!
While it is certainly true that there are perversions and abuses of mockery, ridicule, sarcasm and other legitimate biblical devices, and that these have on occasion been maliciously employed to stir up strife and generate schisms, it is equally true that these devices have been employed responsibly resulting in positive outcomes. Just because there are fake diamonds being manufactured and sold on the market as genuine jewels doesn't mean there are no real diamonds to be found. One must simply be discerning.
The Pharisees likely did not take kindly to the picture Jesus painted of them as blind men guiding blind men head over heels into a pit (Matthew 15:14), or as legalists straining out gnats while swallowing camels (Matthew 23:24), but this was subtle mockery with a spiritual message! Earlier in the latter chapter, Jesus mocked the rigid religious leaders with these words (aptly paraphrased in the Living Bible) -- "You would think these Jewish leaders and these Pharisees were Moses, the way they keep making up so many laws! And of course you should obey their every whim!" (Matthew 23:2-3). Mockery! But, godly mockery! Jesus sought to alert the people to the arrogance, as well as the dangers, of their leaders, portraying them as Moses-mimes and mandate-makers, men whose whims were expected to be obeyed as though their pronouncements had fallen from the lips of Moses himself. I believe the people got the message. So did the leaders, who wasted no time in seeking to destroy Him. The truth conveyed by the mockery was unmistakable, and it made a lasting impression upon impressionable minds.
As noted earlier, Elijah, one of only two men spared the pain of death, as he confronted the false prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel, "mocked them" (1 Kings 18:27). Through this device the people came to perceive the ridiculous plight of these men as they called out to their lifeless idols and cut themselves in frustration over the deafening silence of their deities. The godly mockery utilized by Elijah presented a profound message to those assembled to witness this duel of deities. What was the outcome? "And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces; and they said, 'The Lord, He is God; the Lord, He is God" (1 Kings 18:39).
The prophet Ezekiel was instructed to prophesy to the people of Jerusalem that God would bring mockery against them for the purpose of shaming them. When sin has brought a people low, derision is one device which just might help facilitate their repentance. "You have brought your days to a close, and the end of your years has come. Therefore I will make you an object of scorn to the nations, and a mocking to all the lands. Those who are near and those who are far from you will mock you" (Ezekiel 22:4-5). The ultimate intent of godly mockery is to restore a people, not to ruin them! Responsible ridicule will bring reformation in its wake, although its barbs may initially be quite painful to bear.
In the first chapter of Proverbs we find Wisdom, personified, speaking rather bluntly to those who have rejected her. "Since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you" (Proverbs 1:24-26). As with Jerusalem during the time of the prophet Ezekiel, sometimes mockery becomes necessary as a means of bringing a people to an awareness of their spiritual plight. Godly mockery can indeed be used effectively to bring about godly responses from those who have succumbed to the folly of falsehood.
Some of God's people today are ill-informed and misguided. For a few, however, these characterizations are much too generous! A healthy dose of responsible ridicule and godly mockery might just be what the Great Physician requires for some professing His name! Some people respond well to subtleties .... others need a two-by-four between the eyes! That's where mockery, derision, sarcasm and ridicule come in. Used sparingly and responsibly by Spirit-led disciples it may well bring about spiritual healing and reformation.
Joshua Clark, from Washington state, in an article entitled "Satire and Sarcasm" (published on the Internet: July 18, 2002), made some insightful remarks that we would all do well to carefully and prayerfully consider:
"The antithesis between the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman can at times be found in somewhat biting laughter and mockery. Often Christians get so caught up in restraining themselves from hating their enemies that they end up thinking it is entirely unrighteous to show disdain for them or to mock them. But we find that the Bible is not devoid of ridicule for the fools, and that Christ Himself spread it rather thick on the Pharisees.
"So we see then that sarcasm can be used righteously, but we must define the goal of sarcasm if we are to avoid the more invidious uses that hinder Christian truth. The goal of satire, as with all forms of rebuke, should be to save a person from error. Mockery should not be the form of rebuke in every situation. Yet sometimes mockery is appropriate. Once a person has spurned rebuke, and especially when other Christians are falling into this person's error, open ridicule may be an appropriate way to call them back to truth. There is no cookie-cutter approach to determining propriety in satire, but at times the shrewdest approach appears to be a public ridicule of a person's doctrine so that others are not led astray.
Interesting, thanks for posting.
Mockery, Sarcasm and Satire... But remember to do it in love and never lose track of the end result.
Thanks for the thread.
While I did get tired of non Mormons mocking my beliefs when I was LDS, it did also get me to think about things, which in turn led me out.
Huh? What do you really mean? /s
I find it too easily to stray over the line, especially in the heat of an argument. For that reason, I try not to mock others' religious beliefs.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger." (Proverbs 15:1)
Well, let’s not forget what happened to the 42 children that mocked Elisha:
2 Kings 2:
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
I would say that your approach is prudent, and uses discretion; in short, it is wisdom.
Strange. I had much the opposite experience.
I was on my way out when some of my agnostic ex-Mormon friends began to mock the LDS church. I was struck at how unfair and mean-spirited they sounded. That got me to look more closely at other things they said. Far from being disinterested seekers after truth, they were just as partisan, closed-minded, and unreasoning as they accused religious people (Mormons and non-Mormons alike) of being. That was a turning point for me.
The more vitriolic the accuser, the less convincing the accusation.
Thanks for your kind words.
amen
I’m not saying vitrol necessarily but pointing out absurdities and contradictions in a way that made me mad enough to take a hard look.
Of course, those that were mocking were not atheists/agnostics either.
I’m sorry you stayed in. You shouldn’t base your eternity based upon a few people. You should take a real hard look. Life in Christ is so much sweeter than life in the LDS.
I have also noticed a big difference in tone between ex-Mo atheists and non-mo believers.
It does no good for Mormons to leave Mormonism and not become Christians. That is pointless.
You will also find that mockery isn’t really my style. I much prefer to take a moderate tone and discuss the issues. You will not see me use terms like “Joe Smith” or ever lie about LDS doctrine. I know enough about the LDS to debate solidly without mockery. But I do think there can and is a time and place for satire.
Those who made me mad enough to investigate Mormonism more thoroughly DID have an affect on me leaving. Sometimes we need a 2x4 to the head in order to think and see things for what they really are.
All is NOT well in Zion...
Thanks for the ping. I can see that I am going to have to up my Godly mockery. Monty Python should give me some inspiration : )
Thanks for the ping!
it did also get me to think about things, which in turn led me out.
***
4 ¶ And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable:
5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
WHY A DUPLICATE THREAD ON THE SAME TOPIC????
I really like the alliteration of...
Moses-mimes and mandate-makers
As well as...
Earlier in the latter chapter, Jesus mocked the rigid religious leaders with these words (aptly paraphrased in the Living Bible) ? ?You would think these Jewish leaders and these Pharisees were Moses, the way they keep making up so many laws! And of course you should obey their every whim!? (Matthew 23:2-3).
Which could be be construed as:
You would think these MORMON leaders and their circumcision group were Moses, the way they keep making up so many laws! And of course you should obey their every D&C!?
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?[Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'.When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'?[Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly:"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73);"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171);"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199);"And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24);"Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed:"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255)."This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44),"But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).President John Taylor stated:"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167);"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said:"Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266)."For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear:"Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265);"Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132);"virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269);"Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated:"the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.