Posted on 08/20/2010 6:30:58 PM PDT by GunsAndBibles
“Then give to Caesar what is Caesar, but give to God what is God’s.” (Mat 22:15-21)
I'm surprised you guys have the guts to show up around here with the unabashed support of the Catholic Church for the illegal invasion.
Last Sunday, Assumption Day, there was a parade here complete with Mexican Flags and Aztec dancers headed to the local Catholic Church.
So enlighten me, why is the Catholic Church aiding and abetting lawbreakers?
Yep - that's why so many of the illegal crowd here in the Central Arkansas area have Mary tattoos, posters, rosary beads hanging everywhere, etc... Definitely a protestant/atheistic practice...
Your question isn't a serious question - it's a fallacy of the same form as "when did you stop beating your wife?"
It ticked me off too. Although I bet the poor nuns(God bless them) disagree with us both.
The best response so far is post #5.
You do know there are conservative Catholic Freepers who know this is the result of liberals who hold liberalism above the teaching of the Catholic Church?
Freegards
I don’t think it is Catholic bashing. I’m Catholic, and I’m ticked too about this issue.
My wife’s Catholic. She’s always trying to get me to convert, and, although there are some compelling aspects of her faith, this is certainly not one of them.
That this cause is so strongly supported by the Catholic Church that they would clearly endorse and support illegal behavior simply doesn’t make sense to me except in the cynical light of concerns about membership and income.
Th Bishops support immigration reform. They do not support amnesty. They support securing the borders and knowing who is actually entering the U.S. They believe in giving whatever aid is permitted under U.S. law. That might be legal assistance in dealing with immigration law. It might mean finding sponsors for immigrants. It might mean humanitarian aid. Which as Christians we are supposed to do no matter what a person’s status is.
Do I agree with them 100% on immigration. No but stop misrepresenting what they advocate. No where have they said an illegal immigrant should just be granted carte blanche status to stay in this country. They support fines and paying of back taxes as the least of remedies to gain legal status.
See post 8 - then tell me again that the Catholic Church is not aiding illegals.
I wonder the same thing.....
I thought you would be happy that the Evangelical churches are gaining ground in South and Central America. But the Bishops do not care what religion the illegal immigrants are any more than they care about the faith of any they serve through charitable endeavors.
I am not a Catholic. Nevertheless, I think your post is crass. I am also living in an area burdened by immigration - but I don’t start off blaming what, one billion people? for this issue.
Disregarding the ummmm, rather lively opening post, I think it is a valid question being asked by non-Roman Catholics.
To be honest, I read your response, and I did not find it answered the question being asked.
I suspect as the illegal alien question simmers and periodically boils over in this country, the question will continue to be asked.
Recognizing (after reading many caucus and non-caucus postings here on FR):
1. There is disagreement within the Roman Catholic church about the issue;
2. There is probably a significant difference between how the Roman Catholic church "works" structurally, and how it is perceived to work by many non-Roman Catholics.
Americans (rightly or wrongly) expect pretty direct answers to questions like this, and I think there will eventually be a point in which the illegal immigration issue will force the "taking of sides".
At this juncture, I'm not sure that I can say with 100% accuracy that I know what the Roman Catholic church's position is. Although I have read articles posted on FR that would seem to indicate that the Pope is "for" illegal immigration (or perhaps some might argue that he is not "against" it).
The Roman Catholic church can, of course, officially come down on either side of the issue that it feels is the correct one.
But I do believe that, at some point, the issue will rise to the level at which it will be necessary that the position be clearly, and unambiguously, stated.
Your thoughts?
So who is responsible in the C. Church for determining position? Who’s calling the shots here?
Note these comments by Archbishop Chaput:
“The Catholic Church respects the law, including immigration law. We respect those men and women who have the difficult job of enforcing it. We do not encourage or help anyone to break the law. We believe Americans have a right to solvent public institutions, secure borders and orderly regulation of immigration.
But we can’t ignore people in need, and we won’t be quiet about laws that don’t work — or that, in their “working,” create impossible contradictions and suffering. Despite all of the heated public argument over the past few years, Americans still find themselves stuck with an immigration system that adequately serves no one. We urgently need the kind of immigration reform that will address our economic and security needs, but will also regularize the status of the many decent undocumented immigrants who help our society to grow. A new Congress and a new president now serve in Washington. They have an extraordinary opportunity to act quickly and justly to solve this problem. “
Maybe most here will disagree with The Archbishop for seemingly favoring “amnesty”. But look at what he’s also saying. People NEED TO RESPECT THE LAW. The Church does NOT condone breaking the law, and the American people have a right to economic integrity and security.
More here:
http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=33837
So enlighten me, why is the Catholic Church aiding and abetting lawbreakers?
“Same reason as the Democrats, to increase their membership.”
Ding ding ding, we have a winner!
I don't know, man. Wish I did.
Do you support the open borders policy of the US for the past 50 years or so...no effective border security?
Do you support the 14th Amendment language creating the anchor-baby situation?
Do you support the fact that on the occasional raid done for political purposes only the employees are busted? How many employers of illegal aliens are thrown into jail for long jail terms?
Do you support governments at all levels closing their eyes to day laborer gathering points? Do you support the fact that those who pick up the day laborers are not punished for doing so? (Not only for hiring people who are not legally able to work but also for tax evasion as well)
If you suspect that a restaurant is using illegals in the kitchen, do you walk out of it?
Would you refuse to buy a home that might have been constructed using illegals as laborers?
What constructive acts have you taken locally to make sure that your local government doesn't facilitate them where you live?
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Yes, the illegal aliens are criminals and need to be dealt with accordingly. But if you honestly look at it, the government, businesses, and consumers have all really facilitated creating a magnet that draws them here.
If no employer would hire them because the employer knew that the price of getting caught hiring an illegal was a jail sentence, I bet that the illegal alien problem would quickly dry up and go away.
But that's not likely to happen any time soon...because the government is not likely to do so any time soon, are they?
And the government is not likely to take serious steps to seal up the border to make it impossible to cross (either from the north or the south), are they?
As to “what’s up?” What’s up is the minute bishops take one step outside of their prescribed duties they immediately act like bozos.
AS to the number of Catholic illegales, a lot of non-Catholic groups make great inroads and a WHOLE lot of immigrants are functionally unchurched in their home countries. So I’m afraid it’s more a matter of bishops being dumb than of anything else.
"We urgently need the kind of immigration reform that will address our economic and security needs, but will also regularize the status of the many decent undocumented immigrants who help our society to grow.
To answer your question; I manage some income properties and I will not do business with any company that I know hires illegals. I will not patronize any establishment that I know hires illegals. I have the expectation that large retailers perform due diligence in their hiring practices.
I *highly* doubt it. Chaput is one of the most conservative bishops in the U.S.
That’ quote is standard boilerplate “well, there are new folks in town, and let’s hope they do the right thing.”
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